The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[Blake Griffin]

1-0 Edwards Pen

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I didn't know Enfield played their home games at Queen Elizabeth stadium now, used to do pe there when I was in school.

 

[SpursD22]

Why didn’t Samuel Shashoua travel with the first team to USA? I don’t think he will leave so why didn’t he make the list but someone like Marsh made it or someone we want to sell (GKN) made it?

 

[coys200]

Tracey playing as striker apparently ?

 

[Blake Griffin]

2-0 edwards pen again.

he won both of them by the way, as he does.

 

[Gb160]

I didn't know Enfield played their home games at Queen Elizabeth stadium now, used to do pe there when I was in school.

Have done since just after the 2012 Olympics, QE was done up and used as a training base for some countries.
Its a good there, drinks are dirt cheap and the crowd there are a good laugh, I go whenever i can, about 3/4 times per season.

 

[Yid-ol]

2-0 edwards pen again.

he won both of them by the way, as he does.

Maybe we should play him against Liverpool this season. They like to give us penalties and not moan about it

 

[Blake Griffin]

 

[IGSpur]

A few years ago, there were comments from someone in the Spurs academy, possibly McDermott, that they were looking to bring players through to the senior team when they were 21/22, rather that as 18/19 year olds. The problem is that most of today's 18/19 year olds seem to think they should step into first team squad as soon as they sign a professional contract. Very few are ready at that age but the club does need to find away to encourage/show the best young players that there is a route towards the first team so that they don't leave at the earliest opportunity.

I remember that too. However, I think the issue is 1)if we aren't brining them through at 21 then why wait at the club until then when there is no progress 2) ultimately development and games is most important, so if a player knows he can play proper football at 17/18/19 then why stay until 21.

Also and I think imo it's becoming a common misconception I don't think our players expect to be playing first team as soon as they sign a professional contract. As I said before, and like you said, if they could see players they know to be talents getting a chance at 20/21 then maybe they might put a bit more faith in the club. However when a player like KWP who appears to be doing 'everything right' and performing in his very limited chances, and at 21/22 has around 5/6 first team appearances to his name. It's not really worth the risk staying. As much as I'm sure most of them would love to play for the club they came through as we have heard with our players, they have their own career and dreams to think about.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Watched the first two games of the U19's, unfortunately only caught the last 35 minutes of the France game. It was all pretty turgid stuff throughout. I know there were some of the better players missing, but I haven't always been as impressed with the football the youth teams have played even when winning their competitions as some. I think it owes more to the club academies than it does to the England coaches (certainly Simpson and Boothroyd) and this group just emphasises that I think. The movement of this team was atrocious throughout, the touch, just simple things like caressing a pass instead of whacking it at the recipient, and England sides still sort to humping the ball aimlessly in the vague direction of a forward when they are under pressure - partly because the movements so bad they sometimes feel it's safer to do that than try a pass.

England are still far too obsessed with results and winning tournaments, when they need to focus on introducing an endemic footballing philosophy.

 

[beats1]

sometimes i wonder if the club is writing off our young players too early. for example, mason was loaned out so many times and finally become a starter at 24.

Mason was considered by a failure by many as he went from championship to league 1 football before going straight to premier league

 

[IGSpur]

Out of interest asking the experts. What’s the youngest you think you can seriously judge a kid ? I don’t tend to take to much notice on here of U16 downwards. But I’m sure you guys can spot serious talent at 15?

What @Paolo10 said was right. From my experience and any others who happen to watch the tournaments you cans spot them from 11/12 which is the youngest you really get exposed to them.

Kirby, TOB, Skipp and Eyoma stood out a mile when I watched their age group at u13s . Similarly, Forson, BBW, Haysman and Hackett, looked arguably as good at that age so it will be interesting to see how they develop.

Also looking back after watching the videos below I forget just how good they were TOB et al where. I saw enough and rated them enough to say I don't think there'd be a better CM partnership than TOB and Kirby in Europe when they were u16s, and though Kirby was injured and going through other stuff, TOB saw us to a Euro final and then WC final, and Kirby has seemingly jumped straight back into the England set up after a year of being fit. Also when you watch the games the ones you highlight as being talented generally then get called up to England, so I think good players usually standout by a mile. Others that have really caught my eye are Madueke, John and of course Edwards.

As Paolo said, you could if you had the access, probably be able to tell as young as 8, having said that soo much development, growth and social changes go on, that it's not always a straight path, and those you thought looked good at 13 fall into place when they're 18.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVJbt16MSSY

 

[IGSpur]

Watched the first two games of the U19's, unfortunately only caught the last 35 minutes of the France game. It was all pretty turgid stuff throughout. I know there were some of the better players missing, but I haven't always been as impressed with the football the youth teams have played even when winning their competitions as some. I think it owes more to the club academies than it does to the England coaches (certainly Simpson and Boothroyd) and this group just emphasises that I think. The movement of this team was atrocious throughout, the touch, just simple things like caressing a pass instead of whacking it at the recipient, and England sides still sort to humping the ball aimlessly in the vague direction of a forward when they are under pressure - partly because the movements so bad they sometimes feel it's safer to do that than try a pass.

England are still far too obsessed with results and winning tournaments, when they need to focus on introducing an endemic footballing philosophy.

They need to get better and more progressive coaches in, it's like having a Ferrari being driven around by an 80 year old. It would be good if the guys like Parker or Lampard tried their hand at coaching some of the international teams. AS you say while we had a load of players missing we still played terribly and the players are better of a lot more than that. Also some of the decision making by the manager in terms of the poor use of subs, Brereton and Hirst playing together and not using Bayliss when it was a great opportunity for him to show himself at this level was baffling.

 

[coys200]

What @Paolo10 said was right. From my experience and any others who happen to watch the tournaments you cans spot them from 11/12 which is the youngest you really get exposed to them.

Kirby, TOB, Skipp and Eyoma stood out a mile when I watched their age group at u13s . Similarly, Forson, BBW, Haysman and Hackett, looked arguably as good at that age so it will be interesting to see how they develop.

Also looking back after watching the videos below I forget just how good they were TOB et al where. I saw enough and rated them enough to say I don't think there'd be a better CM partnership than TOB and Kirby in Europe when they were u16s, and though Kirby was injured and going through other stuff, TOB saw us to a Euro final and then WC final, and Kirby has seemingly jumped straight back into the England set up after a year of being fit. Also when you watch the games the ones you highlight as being talented generally then get called up to England, so I think good players usually standout by a mile. Others that have really caught my eye are Madueke, John and of course Edwards.

As Paolo said, you could if you had the access, probably be able to tell as young as 8, having said that soo much development, growth and social changes go on, that it's not always a straight path, and those you thought looked good at 13 fall into place when they're 18.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVJbt16MSSY

I guess there must be a lot of physical unevenness though which must make it much harder to judge.

 

[chinaman]

Watched the first two games of the U19's, unfortunately only caught the last 35 minutes of the France game. It was all pretty turgid stuff throughout. I know there were some of the better players missing, but I haven't always been as impressed with the football the youth teams have played even when winning their competitions as some. I think it owes more to the club academies than it does to the England coaches (certainly Simpson and Boothroyd) and this group just emphasises that I think. The movement of this team was atrocious throughout, the touch, just simple things like caressing a pass instead of whacking it at the recipient, and England sides still sort to humping the ball aimlessly in the vague direction of a forward when they are under pressure - partly because the movements so bad they sometimes feel it's safer to do that than try a pass.

England are still far too obsessed with results and winning tournaments, when they need to focus on introducing an endemic footballing philosophy.

Not only the youth are doing that. The semi-final against Croatia is a case in point. McGuire and Stones were just belting the ball blindly from defence which put England immediately under pressure again.

 

[IGSpur]

I guess there must be a lot of physical unevenness though which must make it much harder to judge.

Some players look obviously bigger than others, and some look clearly smaller, so you take that into account. If you look at Kirby though, he isn't massive so it's quite easy to make a judgement on him and rule out that it's just because he is bigger. He is average size.

Shashoua is/was tiny so when he gets knocked off the ball or outpaced I don't just assume he's not that good. Whereas someone like Forson was quite a lot more physically developed than the players he was competing with so, I take that into consideration whenever I watch(ed) his performances. For him that will even out over the future, but he has more than enough ability where it should be an issue. Oduwa was someone who I thought may look so good because of his size, but once h moved to u23s you could tell he was just beating guys due to skill and not his physique.

 

[guru]

Went to the game tonight , Enfield Town were not the best , we completely bossed the first half , they did not really get near the ball , I over heard a Town player telling his father , how quick and fast we were in the first half , and they could not get near us in our ball play . Second half we mainly had our younger boys u18 playing , so we did not have as much possession and allowed them into the game . Stand outs were shashua , oglive , can tell Edwards has attitude , played for himself , no tracking back and helping his right back , body language poor . I also heard that brown and Griffiths have left as they were no longer happy at the club , and by the way that they were being treated . I am starting to think that spurs have major issues working with these lads , something sounds very very wrong and worrying , that we are losing such talents.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Not only the youth are doing that. The semi-final against Croatia is a case in point. McGuire and Stones were just belting the ball blindly from defence which put England immediately under pressure again.

Absolutely. I said this before/during the group stages. There's good intentions from Southgate, but England just does not have an endemic "footballing" philosophy to fall back on, like the best or even 2nd tier international teams do. There's hope, because there's some cracking academies teaching good footballing ethos, and educating players tactically, but it may take a while and it needs better coaches and for England youth football to stop seeing "winning" as success, but producing cohesive football as the goal.

 

[IGSpur]

England U16 squad

We have

Tobi Oluwayemi
Dermi Lusala
Benjamin Watt
Nile John

View attachment 39564

We beat Croatia 2-0. Lusala started and John came on and got an assist

 

[chinaman]

Absolutely. I said this before/during the group stages. There's good intentions from Southgate, but England just does not have an endemic "footballing" philosophy to fall back on, like the best or even 2nd tier international teams do. There's hope, because there's some cracking academies teaching good footballing ethos, and educating players tactically, but it may take a while and it needs better coaches and for England youth football to stop seeing "winning" as success, but producing cohesive football as the goal.

All this shit stemmed from Ramsey's success in 1966 and his oft-quoted "we've nothing to learn from them" attitude towards the rest of Europe when it was evident that countries like West Germany and Italy were getting ahead. And the pre-cursor of Maureen, Don Revie compounded the boring style adopted by all teams except Spurs and Manure in the decades following.