The Y Word

[0-Tibsy-0]

I think expecting the population, including those who have no interest in football, to understand the context of why a large group of football favs are singing Yid Army is completely unrealistic.

So how can someone who doesn’t know the context decide it’s wrong or inappropriate?

 

[qqq1]

If we stop saying yid Chelsea, West Ham fans etc are not magically going to stop their vile chants. Most of their awful chants don't even use the word yid but refer to Auschwitz, Hitler, Jews and so on and stopping us saying yid will not remove the years of association of our club with the Jewish community.

 

[dontcallme]

So how can someone who doesn’t know the context decide it’s wrong or inappropriate?

If a large group of people are singing a song that I might take as racist or aggressive the last thing I am thinking is “I wonder what the context of this song is.”

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

If a large group of people are singing a song that I might take as racist or aggressive the last thing I am thinking is “I wonder what the context of this song is.”

Sure, but later that day you might google it and then understand that is was neither racist nor aggressive and see that you were incorrect in your original assumptions.

 

[absolute bobbins]

You know who get offended by Yid? It's not Jews, it's the people who know Jews or are friends with Jews.

If you're such a good fucking mate to us why do you keep so fucking quiet over incidents of actual Jew hate?

 

[Dougal]

Maybe it's not my place to comment on this matter, as I'm not Jewish.

You’re a Spurs fan. You’re right at the middle of the conversation. Opinion counts as much as some bloke who was funny when he teamed up with a other comedians 30 years ago.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

You’re a Spurs fan. You’re right at the middle of the conversation. Opinion counts as much as some bloke who was funny when he teamed up with a other comedians 30 years ago.

Thank you for that.

 

[Dougal]

Thank you for that.

Sorry @coopsieyid , thought I was quoting someone else. You’re opinion doesn’t count.

 

[mugpunt]

As a fellow synagogue going, Shabbat-observing, skullcap wearing Orthodox Jew, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've written.

When Spurs fans call themselves YIDS, it's a proud label of fellowship and support against the racism that Spurs fans suffered for years from other clubs.

YID ARMY!

As an orthodox rabbi, my feelings are the same... Curiously it's been my long found experience that self-hating 'yidified' jews have the biggest issue with the word

 

[specspurs]

Not this again from Baddiel!
Let's get this straight. Yid means Jew in Yiddish, the language of Eastern European Jews.
No Jew that I know, and I know plenty, is offended by being called a Yid even Arsenal supporting Jewish friends and relatives, of which there are also many.
Being called a ******* Yid would be different. But just Yid is not offensive.
And yes, my parents were Eastern European WWII refugees and fluent in Yiddish and I could understand it reasonably (a bit out of practice nowadays since that generation has all passed.)

 

[Dov67]

One other thing occurred to me yesterday at the game. Even, if banning the YID (there, i said it) ARMY chants is desirable (which it absolutely is NOT), how achievable is this?

And the answer is that it is not - this is so engrained in generation after generation of Spurs fans that you will never ever stamp it out, and campaigns like this only do one thing - they embed it further into our identity.

All Baddiel managed to do all those years ago, was make us as a fan base more attached to it (“they tried to stop us and look what it did), and I noticed the racist chanting from Chelsea and West Ham go up to levels i hadnt seen since the early 80s.

So not only is this ridiculous, wrong headed and quite frankly offensive campaign doomed to utter failure, it will for certain have the precise opposite effect of what is said to be intended.

 

[dimiSpur]

So let me get this straight. The word itself merely means Jew in Yiddish. Racists have appropriated it and referred to Jewish people as "fucking yids". Yet when we use the word in it's original sense, it's racist? So what we're basically saying is that racists have appropriated it to the extent that the word itself, is racist?

That's quite some bullshit.

If tomorrow, some mental right wing "movement" or criminal organisation (which is what these types of groups effectively are), started referring to black people as black this and black that, then would everyone be banned from using the word "black"?

 

[dontcallme]

So let me get this straight. The word itself merely means Jew in Yiddish. Racists have appropriated it and referred to Jewish people as "fucking yids". Yet when we use the word in it's original sense, it's racist? So what we're basically saying is that racists have appropriated it to the extent that the word itself, is racist?

That's quite some bullshit.

If tomorrow, some mental right wing "movement" or criminal organisation (which is what these types of groups effectively are), started referring to black people as black this and black that, then would everyone be banned from using the word "black"?

Probably not, no.

 

[dimiSpur]

Probably not, no.

Exactly... That was my point.

 

[qqq1]

How often is the word yid used in an anti Semitic context these days? It seems to have fallen largely out of use in this context since the Oswald Mosely days. Most anti semitism I see or hear seems to just refer to Jews or use more Americanised terms and not yids. However I'm not Jewish so haven't experienced this first hand and these are just my third party observations.

 

[dontcallme]

For the record, I believe we should have the right to use the chant. It is simply down to the individual whether they choose to use it. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather not use it but am far from condemning anyone else from doing so.

I just think people should try to consider how others feel about its usage when making their decision.

Y-word consultation update | Tottenham Hotspur

At the beginning of August, the Club commenced its consultation with fans on their use of the Y-word. We received more than 23,000 responses and we can now share the results...

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

At the beginning of August, the Club commenced its consultation with fans on their use of the Y-word. We received more than 23,000 responses and we can now share the results...

Our recent consultation shows that:

• 33% of respondents use the Y-word ‘regularly’ in a footballing context
• 18% of respondents that do not use the term in a footballing context consider it ‘offensive’, with the number rising to 35% among Jewish respondents
• Only 12% of respondents would use the term outside of a footballing context
• 94% of respondents acknowledge the Y-word can be considered a racist term against a Jewish person
• Almost half of all respondents would prefer to see supporters choose to chant the Y-word less or stop using it altogether

The above shows a large group of people who are aware of the context and almost half came to the conclusion that we shouldn't use the term.

 

[ReadieSpur]

How often is the word yid used in an anti Semitic context these days? It seems to have fallen largely out of use in this context since the Oswald Mosely days. Most anti semitism I see or hear seems to just refer to Jews or use more Americanised terms and not yids. However I'm not Jewish so haven't experienced this first hand and these are just my third party observations.

Exactly. Language changes and evolves. For the majority of people after the Boomer generation, YID means something completely different. Why do we want to keep dragging it back and applying negative connotations to it? Let the word evolve and become a positive tag for the spurs YID Army.

 

[Reece_Spurs]

So we get hissed at, nazi salutes thrown our way, everything else thats extremely racist, so we decide to embrace it and call ourselves yids and unites Spurs fans with most of the jewish community, yet we are now the racist ones? I don't give a fuck if that silly twat changed seats to make a point, if he truly hated racism he wouldn't support Chelsea at all. He's so offended by what we do yet get's around the Chelsea racism by just moving to another stand just so he can ignore it? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I'll always embrace the yid songs, I get the history, the double meaning and everything else and despite not being jewish, every time I've sung it i've always felt i'm supporting my team but more importantly supporting the jewish community that constantly got racially abused by other fans.

 

[wadewill]

I'm a middle class, middle aged white man who lives in the home counties, so I have absolutely no qualifications to talk about racism in any shape or form.

But..of course but, surely a word is only racially aggressive or insulting if its used in a aggressive and insulting way? I'm not Jewish but i'm proud that Tottenham have that connection to that community, when we sing it it's not used to vilify anyone at all, it's a chant of togetherness and shows proudness of the heritage of the club. Totally different to how other fans chants about it.

Equally, if we are asked not to sing it because some people are offended, then i guess we should respect that. As long as they aren't Arsenal fans...

 

[ShelfWatcher]

I'm against us singing the Y songs. It helps identify us as a Jewish club in many people's minds
We are not a Jewish club, the vast majority of our support, including me, an English atheist, is not Jewish. The vast majority of our players are not Jewish. It's only on the board aspect that we are strongly Jewish.
For me, we are an English club with a vast multicultural/ multi country following