Tim Sherwood is a backstabbing monster and he saved Spurs

CrazyHeart

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#63
Er.. yes. Not sure if I made but original point clear but I think you get it. Also.
Bro, we're obviously not going to agree on the merits and demerits of AVB - but this discussion isn't about that at all (and it's been beaten to death).

It's the manner in which he was forced to part company with our club, after getting screwed over royally leading to a crooked power grab by a clearly unqualified Tim Sherwood.
 

rupsmith

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#64
Bro, we're obviously not going to agree on the merits and demerits of AVB - but this discussion isn't about that at all (and it's been beaten to death).

It's the manner in which he was forced to part company with our club, after getting screwed over royally leading to a crooked power grab by a clearly unqualified Tim Sherwood.
Well bro - I must admit it would be great if you could run through my analysis from a couple of pages ago (its got videos in it) - genuinely curious to know what u think
 

JoeT

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#65
Why do we keep arguing about these stupid thing... All the managers we have had have had their good and bad points. And in the end can only be judged by results - and Sherwood did OK. (better than some of the others). But all of the managers we had probably should have been given longer... And Poch didn't have the best start either... but thankfully we have stuck with him, and starting to see the results. But we still are a work in progress and wont play like that all the time... All I want to see is a stable management for a good period with the full financial backing, and the results will come.
At last, a sensible, forward-moving post; as opposed to those who have all of this 'inside information'....which has been carefully selected to support their opinions.
Why do we all need to indulge in this? Because it's juicy gossip that's why!There has been more posts on this topic than there has been on one of Spurs' most amazing wins in recent times.
Good post 'deka spur'.
 
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gloryglory

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#66
AVB did not want VDV to go, for the record.
Judge by results if you like. I judge by how much I enjoyed supporting the club at the time. The Sherwoood era was my least favourite since the last days of Hoddle. And one of the main reasons was I couldn't stand watchig his self - serving grandstanding self-promotion.
 

gloryglory

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#67
Sorry, didn't mean to reply to that post in particular. Actually I think avb is probably the one rewriting history on vdv though. Pretty clear he wanted him to go.
 

eddiebailey

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#68
Oh, I don't know, but maybe the quality of integrity figures highly for some. That may be something else you may never really understand. Just out of interest, what is your understanding of what AVB's vision for the club was and how did it differ from Sherwood's?
You see I failed to see this integrity. I just saw ego, insecurity and petulance.

As far as I could see AVB's vision for the club was to spend money we could not afford on players who did not want to join us, while ignoring the products of our excellent (and costly) Academy. Tactically his vision seemed to be to bore the opposition (and fans) to death in the hope of nicking a late winner.

I am glad to see that we are now moving more the direction of the template that Sherwood and others had set for the club before AVB's appointment, and which AVB chose to wilfully ignore despite presumably having signed up to it when accepting the post.
 

CrazyHeart

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#69
You see I failed to see this integrity. I just saw ego, insecurity and petulance.

As far as I could see AVB's vision for the club was to spend money we could not afford on players who did not want to join us, while ignoring the products of our excellent (and costly) Academy. Tactically his vision seemed to be to bore the opposition (and fans) to death in the hope of nicking a late winner.

I am glad to see that we are now moving more the direction of the template that Sherwood and others had set for the club before AVB's appointment, and which AVB chose to wilfully ignore despite presumably having signed up to it when accepting the post.
Yes, but should he have been fired for it at the stage we were at in the season? We had our highest points total under him in the previous season and were doing better in the next at that juncture.

It was a ludicrous decision regardless of what anyone thinks of his management. How would you feel if the same happened to Poch two weeks ago, due to unbeknownst back room sleazy dealing - while proponents would cite a lower points total to the previous season as justification?
 

eddiebailey

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#70
How can it be tactical suicide when is works? It worked under AVB and we won games that we should have drawn because of it. It has worked for other clubs. When you have one special player in your team how can it be wrong that the team plays to his strengths, and what does Sweetsman or me playing the game before (I have) have to do with anything?
And then Bale left...
 

rupsmith

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#72
Oh well I guess some people on this site still wish AVB was our manager. I must admit I can't understand why, considering his style of play and results. Some others including me thought Tim did a fairly decent job and were a bit nervous when he was sacked mainly because the possibility of another period of "transition". But the current signs are good - so forget the past and let's look to the furture. Hope Tim lands a decent job and AVB stops moaning about broken promises.

Onwards and upwards - Come on you Spurs!! Remember Kane's pirouette? Off to practise that!
 

Sweetsman

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#73
To answer your points:

Firstly, yes the discussion is not about Levy. However, what has gone on in the background of our football club has to be put into context about why things were done. What I put in there was how I saw the background of events and how that influenced what happened in terms of managerial appointments and removals - not sure why that is a hole.

Secondly, AVB wasnt sacked? Then why did he leave? He resigned in protest over his mistreatment? The lack of funds? Players not willing to come to Spurs? Don't get it. Why is that a hole?

Thirdly, I was merely pointing out that the image of how a football manager is portrayed in the media goes a long way to influencing peoples impression of his football managerial ability. He was sometimes attacked for his lack of flexibility, tactical naivete and as you rightly put it - stubbornness. But even though his results and team set up were poor, a lot of people defended him because of the way he portrayed himself in the media. Im not criticizing AVB for that, just saying that it has to be taken into consideration. Not sure why that is a hole.

Fourthly, are you saying that AVB was right in formulating the system around one player? I'm afraid you have never played the game before then my friend. If you read Harry Redknapp's book and heard Bale's recent interview, Bale was given the kick up the backside he needed by Harry. Harry played him out left when he was developing. He then even tried to play him further inside, but he wasn't ready yet and we fans were singing - "Gareth Bale, he plays on the left". Harry realised he wasn't ready yet and took him back out left. Harry was then sacked and AVB continued his development as you rightly pointed out. But the whole team was built around Bale and that is tactical suicide. If you were pointing out that AVB did a great job of developing Bale then Real Madrid are reaping the benefits - his job was not to develop Bale, his job was to develop THFC. Not sure why that is a hole.

Fifthly, AVB left VDV go and his demand for players whom we simply couldn't afford can't be held against the club. He should have known what he was signing up for. As I said at the beginning of my post - we are not a "natural" top 4 club. AVB from all accounts approved every one of the players that were purchased after he joined the club. They were apparently not first choices but they were not forced on him either - they were all post his approval - if he couldn't cope with that he is not a good enough manager. Don't see why that is a hole either.
And if you read "I am Zlatan" you would know that Barcelona is shaped around one player, but they had other brilliant players around him. AVB had to cope with the loss f Modrić, who at the time was even more important than Bale for us. He was never replaced properly. As for your other attempts at defence, try harder next time, but without the straw men; eg, bringing up Redknapp when I never mentioned him as being without influence on Bale. Also, try not to keep repeating two fallacies: 1) AVB let VDV go, when he wanted him to stay, which I was told by Jason Burt after an early EL game; 2) AVB's departure was a sacking, which has never been claimed by either party.
Finally, try not to use portentous phrases such as "my friend", because it makes you look like a jerk.
 

davidmatzdorf

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#74
So, basically you are saying that it was within Sherwood's right to undermine the manager of the first team? I honestly can't get my head around the support some people have for that toad, who had a lot of similar shits in the media undermining AVB; it has become clear that he was leaking information to them...
I get this all the time. People assume I am making a judgment, because that's what everyone else does here, often apparently as a matter of reflex.

I'm just reporting what I think must have been going on. There's not a hint of my own 'opinion' [that word again] in my post.

It is possible to explain things without plugging one's own personal agenda. Unfortunately, it seems to be impossible for some people to read such an explanation without inserting their own personal agenda where none exists.

The 'heroes and villains' stuff on this thread, with people either defending every nonensical, pretentious utterance AVB ever made, or justifying every intemperate and ill-advised public blurt by Sherwood, I find infantile. They are both knowledgeable football men whose personal flaws and limitations cost them their jobs. It's more interesting for me to try to understand what was going on, as opposed to taking sides and then stereotyping either character as entirely blameless or entirely villainous.
 
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eddiebailey

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#75
He is a savvy businessman and like most clear thinking leaders he has not tried to dabble in the details of the business where he is not that knowledgable and experienced - the actual football. What he therefore sought to do is appoint someone reliable to "direct" the development of the football side of our club - my understanding is that person is Franco Baldini. What they have sought to do is define a way of playing our club will be associated with considering our history and the players who have played for our club in the past - a philosophy. Players in the development squad and and first team recruits will be brought in based on that philosophy and the approval of Baldini, the first team coach - Poch - and the youth development coach - not based on the judgement of a first team manager no matter how reliable and experienced because it is not a sustainable model.
The philosophy has been there a while. Ugo Ehiogu explains:

"at Tottenham, there is a clear DNA outlined at the club through out the academy ages.

That DNA is laid out and passed down from Tim Sherwood, Head of Football Development, John McDermott, Head of Academy, and the wonderfully experienced Chris Ramsey, who is Senior Professional Phase Coach.

The way that Tottenham teams play is clear and all the coaches know what is expected of them."

What AVB was expected to do was bring that DNA through to the first team. He didn't do that, and when Tim took over he inherited a group of players who were unwilling or incapable of adapting to the club philosophy. Accordingly to get the results he needed to stand a chance of keeping the job he was obliged to improvise as best he could with the players available, rather than wholesale imposing his own footballing beliefs. I alway believed that if he was kept on our first team style of play would have evolved to reflect that at more junior levels.

Poch struggled initially for the same reasons, but with the luxury of more time he has been truer to his beliefs (and results-wise less successful), but he is now benefitting from being able to draw on players from the development squad who are pre-adapted to the way he wants to play.

It has been a long term project, and AVB was an unfortunate blip, but hopefully we are now back on track.
 

rupsmith

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#76
And if you read "I am Zlatan" you would know that Barcelona is shaped around one player, but they had other brilliant players around him. AVB had to cope with the loss f Modrić, who at the time was even more important than Bale for us. He was never replaced properly. As for your other attempts at defence, try harder next time, but without the straw men; eg, bringing up Redknapp when I never mentioned him as being without influence on Bale. Also, try not to keep repeating two fallacies: 1) AVB let VDV go, when he wanted him to stay, which I was told by Jason Burt after an early EL game; 2) AVB's departure was a sacking, which has never been claimed by either party.
We did not have other brilliant players around Bale. AVB was the manager who had to manage to get find a solution to replace Modric. He did not - other than recommend we invest millions in expensive replacements. Not sure what your response is regarding my reponse to your original point that AVB developed Bale. Not denying that - just saying that his job was to develop THFC.

Regarding the two fallacies 1) if you say so fair enough, I withdraw my comment 2) if he wasn't sacked then what was it?
 

CrazyHeart

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#77
Oh well I guess some people on this site still wish AVB was our manager. I must admit I can't understand why, considering his style of play and results. Some others including me thought Tim did a fairly decent job and were a bit nervous when he was sacked mainly because the possibility of another period of "transition". But the current signs are good - so forget the past and let's look to the furture. Hope Tim lands a decent job and AVB stops moaning about broken promises.

Onwards and upwards - Come on you Spurs!! Remember Kane's pirouette? Off to practise that!
Er no. AVB should've finished out the season with the support accorded to him by the board. At best, we'd be doing better than we are today with all the flair and excitement some here crave and at worst, we'd have Poch in this season with a more gelled squad.

I don't know why this perspective is so hard to comprehend... Either way Sherwood's appointment was a mistake, and the manner in which it was handled was a disgrace. He's proved to be a good academy coach, and that's exactly where he should've stayed.

But yes, Kane's pirouette was wonderful and I'm happy with the way things are going now that the Sherwood error has been rectified.
 

rupsmith

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#78
Er no. AVB should've finished out the season with the support accorded to him by the board. At best, we'd be doing better than we are today with all the flair and excitement some here crave and at worst, we'd have Poch in this season with a more gelled squad.

I don't know why this perspective is so hard to comprehend... Either way Sherwood's appointment was a mistake, and the manner in which it was handled was a disgrace. He's proved to be a good academy coach, and that's exactly where he should've stayed.

But yes, Kane's pirouette was wonderful and I'm happy with the way things are going now that the Sherwood error has been rectified.
Understand your perspective clearly but have to disagree. Either way the past is the past. I guess we all have to move on.
 

CrazyHeart

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#79
I get this all the time. People assume I am making a judgment, because that's what everyone else does here, often apparently as a matter of reflex.

I'm just reporting what I think must have been going on. There's not a hint of my own 'opinion' [that word again] in my post.

It is possible to explain things without plugging one's own personal agenda. Unfortunately, it seems to be impossible for some people to read such an explanation without inserting their own personal agenda where none exists.

The 'heroes and villains' stuff on this thread, with people either defending every nonensical, pretentious utterance AVB ever made, or justifying every intemperate and ill-advised public blurt by Sherwood, I find infantile. They are both knowledgeable football men whose personal flaws and limitations cost them their jobs. It's more interesting for me to try to understand what was going on, as opposed to taking sides and then stereotyping either character as entirely blameless or entirely villainous.
Yes, but installing an unqualified Sherwood at that juncture proved to be a mistake, surely you can agree with that?
 

Sweetsman

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#80
You see I failed to see this integrity. I just saw ego, insecurity and petulance.

As far as I could see AVB's vision for the club was to spend money we could not afford on players who did not want to join us, while ignoring the products of our excellent (and costly) Academy. Tactically his vision seemed to be to bore the opposition (and fans) to death in the hope of nicking a late winner.

I am glad to see that we are now moving more the direction of the template that Sherwood and others had set for the club before AVB's appointment, and which AVB chose to wilfully ignore despite presumably having signed up to it when accepting the post.
Your attempts to fashion your argument into some sort of homage for Sherwood are just laughably bizarre.
 
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