Top 4 or Silverware ?

[vegassd]

My wishlist for any given season, in order what would/does make me the happiest:

1) Win the PL and/or CL
2) Win the FA Cup/League Cup/Europa League
3) Finish above Arsenal in the league
4) Finish in the CL places in the league

I find this interesting. You would honestly prefer a season with Spurs 5th and Arsenal 6th over Spurs 3rd and Arsenal 2nd?

I'm not saying you're wrong at all by the way. It's just interesting because it shows how us fans can have very differing views on what constitutes success. I guess it would be nice if we were a bit more accommodating of each other rather than trying to find absolute truths in everything and digging out others as being "wrong".

Incidentally, my own version of your list would read 1-4-2-3, although I would separate out the Europa League win as a sort of 1(b) option because it is a trophy and CL qualification in one.

 

[stevenurse]

Bold statement but win our next two and its likely we'll have one foot in the top 4 at least. We'll be likely to be 9 points clear of 5th (at least) as I fully expect a reaction from City against arsenal on Sunday.

Not saying we couldn't fuck it up, but if we're honest its extremely possible we're out of the CL by the end of Feb too and with just the league to concentrate on, with the added rest and hopefully raft of home games. It will look promising. Dont win both of the games this week and its squeaky bum time

 

[easley91]

You're right, in Poch's first season we did.

We've just not managed it since, nearly half a decade later.

But we have reached semi finals each season since, so not exactly throwing away the cup competitions, are we? We only lost to Chelsea last week on penalties, and that was with a depleted squad. Palace wasn't great, but yet I remember 2 golden chances to make it 2-2 at least (Trippier penalty, GKN chance from free-kick) and suddenly we're still in the hat with a replay despite a poor performance.

People seem to be making out like we have a terrible record in the cups or prioritizing the league, when reality is if that was the case we'd have gone out in the early rounds every year. Those semi final defeats, and final defeat were to Chelsea and Man United. Hardly weak opposition are they?

 

[easley91]

Bold statement but win our next two and its likely we'll have one foot in the top 4 at least. We'll be likely to be 9 points clear of 5th (at least) as I fully expect a reaction from City against arsenal on Sunday.

Not saying we couldn't fuck it up, but if we're honest its extremely possible we're out of the CL by the end of Feb too and with just the league to concentrate on, with the added rest and hopefully raft of home games. It will look promising. Dont win both of the games this week and its squeaky bum time

Be careful, you might get lynched for trying to be positive!

 

[Shadydan]

They're also 4 points clear in the Premier League, at the end of January, with a game in hand, having lost 1 game out of 23.

You call that luck too, if it makes you feel better.

My original damn point is that, out of the clubs challenging for the top 4, we're the ones who've consistently been furthest away from winning things, having not won anything now for over ten years.

If you want to throw in some misguided gash about Klopp's Liverpool record then that's your problem. Can't wait to hear what your go-to get out will be when they're champions in 4 months' time.

You mean you're happy to use an example of a trophy they haven't won yet as some sort of backing to your argument, really? You don't get points for being closer to winning things or having a greater desire to win things, I get your point but it's just a load of arbitrary rubbish based on your nonsense criteria, sorry.

Incidentally that reads like you can't wait until Liverpool win the league so that you can it vindicates your opinion which is quite sad if I'm honest.

 

[danielneeds]

I'm not sure it's that debatable. Klopp has taken them to 3 finals plus a semi before this season. Pochettino has taken us to 3 semis plus a final including this season. Yeah you don't "win" anything by losing a final but nor do you win anything by getting into a semi-final. You're closer to winning a trophy by getting to a final than a semi therefore in terms of "challenging" for trophies Klopp has been more successful than Pochettino.

You could also say that Poch's league record and consistency was far higher. That we were in two genuine title races. Ultimately it didn't count for much, same as their finals.

 

[freeeki]

You mean you're happy to use an example of a trophy they haven't won yet as some sort of backing to your argument, really? You don't get points for being closer to winning things or having a greater desire to win things, I get your point but it's just a load of arbitrary rubbish based on your nonsense criteria, sorry.

Incidentally that reads like you can't wait until Liverpool win the league so that you can it vindicates your opinion which is quite sad if I'm honest.

If in doubt, make shit up.

 

[stevenurse]

Be careful, you might get lynched for trying to be positive!

Yes, but if we drop points in the next two...

 

[Styopa]

You could also say that Poch's league record and consistency was far higher. That we were in two genuine title races. Ultimately it didn't count for much, same as their finals.

Poch's league record and consistency has been excellent. However I wouldn't say it's far higher than Klopp's. In terms of the league both managers have been on a similarish trajectory:

2015/16 - Tottenham 3rd (70 points) Liverpool 8th (60 points) - Klopp joined after 8 matches.
2016/17 - Tottenham 2nd (86pts) Liverpool 4th (76 points)
2017/18 - Tottenham 3rd (77points) Liverpool 4th (75 points)
2018/19 TBA Tottenham 3rd (51 points) Liverpool 1st (60 points).

(For reference Poch's first league season for us 2015/15 we finished 5th on 64 points.)

 

[danielneeds]

Poch's league record and consistency has been excellent. However I wouldn't say it's far higher than Klopp's. In terms of the league both managers have been on a similarish trajectory:

2015/16 - Tottenham 3rd (70 points) Liverpool 8th (60 points) - Klopp joined after 8 matches.
2016/17 - Tottenham 2nd (86pts) Liverpool 4th (76 points)
2017/18 - Tottenham 3rd (77points) Liverpool 4th (75 points)
2018/19 TBA Tottenham 3rd (51 points) Liverpool 1st (60 points).

(For reference Poch's first league season for us 2015/15 we finished 5th on 64 points.)

I would also argue that Klopp inherited a far better squad than Poch did. But there's not much in it. They've both done generally very good jobs, but of course on social media everyone's either a "fraud" or a "genius", there's nothing in the middle.

 

[Shadydan]

If in doubt, make shit up.

Ironically this is what you have done, funny that.

 

[buckley]

Lots of love for Liverpool on here heresy in my view

 

[scat1620]

I find this interesting. You would honestly prefer a season with Spurs 5th and Arsenal 6th over Spurs 3rd and Arsenal 2nd?

Yep, if I was offered those two as choices I would definitely take the former. Just how I see it though; don't expect anyone else to agree.

 

[beats1]

First season under Poch we did. In fact we have reached the semi finals at least in one cup competition in each season under Poch.

No we havent in 2016 we didnt progress further than the 5th round or round of 16, also that fact we reached so many SF is less impressive when you consider with the exception of this season we tend not to face any top half team or even PL team in order to get to that semi final.

It pisses me off that people make out this is a choice, because it shields poch from a bigger problem

Poch's record in the cup competitions knockout stages has been terrible

Looking at his record from since he took over:
2015 League Cup -
3rd - vs Nottingham Forest - W
4th - vs Brighton - W
5th - vs Newcastle - W
SF - vs Sheffield Utd - W
F - vs Chelsea - L

2015 FA Cup
3rd - vs Burnley - W after replay
4th - vs Leicester - L

2015 Europa League
R32 - Fiorentina - L

2016 League Cup -
3rd - vs Arsenal - L

2016 FA Cup
3rd - vs Leicester - W after replay
4th - vs Colchester - W
5th - vs Palace - L

2016 Europa League
R32 - Fiorentina - W
R16 - Dortmund - L

2017 League Cup -
3rd - vs Gillingham - W
4th - vs Liverpool - L

2017 FA Cup
3rd - vs Villa - W
4th - vs Wycombe - W
5th - vs Fulham - W
QF - vs Millwall - W
SF - vs Chelsea - L

2017 Europa League
R32 - Gent - L

2018 League Cup -
3rd - vs Barnsley - W
4th - vs West Ham - L

2018 FA Cup
3rd - vs Wimbledon - W
4th - vs Newport - W after replay
5th - vs Rochdale - W after replay
QF - vs Swansea - W
SF - vs Manchester United - L

2018 Champions League
R16 - Juventus - L

2019 League Cup -
3rd - vs Watford - W
4th - vs West Ham - W
5th - vs Arsenal - W
SF - vs Chelsea - L on pens

2019 FA Cup
3rd - vs Palace - L

2019 Champions League
R16 - Dortmund - TBC

This statement as hard as it is for some people can be true:
Poch has overachieved in the league with us but he has underachieved in the cup competitions

The only decent competition he has beaten in a knockout stage is Arsenal this season, even then they are a weaker team overall imo and Leicester in 2016

 

[easley91]

No we havent in 2016 we didnt progress further than the 5th round or round of 16, also that fact we reached so many SF is less impressive when you consider with the exception of this season we tend not to face any top half team or even PL team in order to get to that semi final.

My mistake, so only one season without. With regards to the draws, you can only beat who you're drawn against. City got Burton Albion, think they're complaining about the draw? And see how many PL sides got knocked out of FA Cup already to teams from lower leagues. If that's someone from the lower leagues then so be it. Also you have this season's FA Cup as 3rd round when it was the 4th round, we beat Tranmere 7-0 a few weeks ago.

 

[beats1]

My mistake, so only one season without. With regards to the draws, you can only beat who you're drawn against. City got Burton Albion, think they're complaining about the draw? And see how many PL sides got knocked out of FA Cup already to teams from lower leagues. If that's someone from the lower leagues then so be it. Also you have this season's FA Cup as 3rd round when it was the 4th round, we beat Tranmere 7-0 a few weeks ago.

Im not denying that, however there is a clear pattern, when we are face any decent competition, we bow out bar this season beating Arsenal for the first time

If you do well relies on you facing weak opposition with Ian Wright picking the right ball, that shouldn't be anything to be proud of imo.

 

[easley91]

Im not denying that, however there is a clear pattern, when we are face any decent competition, we bow out bar this season beating Arsenal for the first time

If you do well relies on you facing weak opposition with Ian Wright picking the right ball, that shouldn't be anything to be proud of imo.

Going out to Chelsea last week was harsh though. Penalties is always a lottery no matter how much or little you practice. Not to mention no Kane, Alli or Son.

Semi vs Chelsea where Son was deployed at LWB wasn't great, but we still fought after going behind twice and got it to 2-2 before their subs changed the game.

United shocked me as we went ahead and thought we'd go on from there.

Others I genuinely don't remember too well performance wise, so forgive me. Only remember that Chelsea semi as was my birthday weekend and went to it so sticks in the mind.

 

[bubble07]

Top 4

 

[Shadydan]

lol

 

[riggi]