Tottenham Vs Leicester: Match Thread

[Gaz_Gammon]

comments like this affirm my conviction that some people on here are watching different games (perhaps a parallel universe)?
There were two balls yesterday hit brilliantly by Verts and Dier to the full back on the opposite flank - the fb took the ball in stride attacked and made a penetrating pass. The Verts to Walk to Dele (against the bar) was fantastic. Dier also hit one in particular that was Koeman like in its quality.

Had promised to tick through a few positives so here goes:
1. Rose - was incredible - interceptions, tackles, breaking up play, charging forward, getting in good balls and a couple of decent shots. Poch has transformed this guy - best LB in the league
2. Walker - the best moment of the game was the one referred to above. He was strong, powerful, quick and got some really good balls in. Best right back in the league
3. Verts - defensive masterclass + incredible passing from the back + so unlucky not to score with a header and a 30 yard shot in the last few mins. Best left center back in the league
4. Dier - a lot to like from mr utility - only nit picking thing is that he needs to get better at closing off the cross from the byline (see Vardy x 2). Still not at his best but heading in the right direction
5. Dembele - sometimes it was men against boys. Getting back to his best after a stop start season. When he is up to full match sharpness we know he is as good as anyone in Europe in his position (as the data from last season proved).
6. Victor W - while the header was poor, a real lax moment - he showed good desire to try to make it right. Not his best performance for us but lots of good moments
7. Dele - hunting the ball, trying to make things happen, got his shots in and should have had a penalty. Unlucky not to finish what would have been a team goal of the season contender.


The challenges for me from the performance are as follows:
1. Son - not had the sharpness he had before the international break and the trip out East
2. CE - working hard and trying but not as sharp as he can be. Dead ball stuff not quite where it was last season
3. Lamela - we missed him - lack of balance with Son and CE in the same side
4. Victor J - worked very hard, should have had a second penalty and two moments in the second half when he could have scored very good goals with a bit of luck (the free kick and the swivel and shoot) - at other points in his career both have and will go in

There is not much wrong with where we are now - Toby and Kane would strengthen the side + we need Dembele, Dier to get match fitness/ sharpness. If that happens + Victor W continues his form and, crucially, CE gets back to form we will have a fantastic season. My sense is that we have an incredible starting xl from last year + Victor W and a revitalized Son. If Victor J gets close to the level the Dutch think he will and Winks continues his upwards trajectory, that gives us 16 (including Vorm) really good players. Then, if one of the other new signings or youth players can break into that group we are in wonderful shape.

Lamela - we missed him - lack of balance with Son and CE in the same side

As one poster put it we have scored just one goal in open play the last five games. To suggest that we have "missed" Lamela is plain daft.

We have very little of is pace, and directness in this side. You only have to look at the likes of Chelsea,Citeh and Liverpool to see that their managers philosophy is working a treat. If you think that the return of Lamela is the answer then you don't really know the question.

The old saying that "if things don't change they will stay the same" rings true on this point. Playing Eriksen, and Lamela behind the main striker is the problem. Rotate them by all means because it's clear that both lack pace, and direct attacking ability. Some games it's like watching Ray Wilkins and his twin brother playing behind Janssen or Son, and thats perhaps why Kane before his injury was struggling.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

From pretty much all of those players in my opinion. Pace in transition is a mindset not a physical attribute.

I dont doubt for a second we have players capable of shifting the ball from defence to attack quickly, but thats impossible when everytime we look to check back and look for a safe sideways/backwards pass.

Lesser players than we have at our disposal manage this.

Could not agree more, when we win the ball, or it is given away by the opposition who do we have with pace? Dier, Dembele, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen, Lamela, Janssen?. Only Son offers this, yet we have GKN sitting on the bench? He and Son should make a start for a few games and have Dele play between them. Have Wanyama in front of the back four and Dembele sitting behind Dele. A version of 4-1-4-1?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

So you're saying if Janssen was rapid we would have won more games and he would have scored more goal beacause of imaginary service?

I'm saying his movement is not good enough. He doesn't get across the centre halves. I'm tired of seeing him backing into and grappling with people.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Could not agree more, when we win the ball, or it is given away by the opposition who do we have with pace? Dier, Dembele, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen, Lamela, Janssen?. Only Son offers this, yet we have GKN sitting on the bench? He and Son should make a start for a few games and have Dele play between them. Have Wanyama in front of the back four and Dembele sitting behind Dele. A version of 4-1-4-1?

I don't know how having little footballing intelligence in the team can be a good thing. You need to find the balance between pace and intelligence- having Nkoudou, Son, Wanyama, Dembele and Alli in the same team is not going to solve our problem of a lack of creativity. If we're leading in an important game and start playing counter-attacking football, it may be a good idea, but not from the start.

By the way, Sissoko is rapid.

 

[mpickard2087]

I'm saying his movement is not good enough. He doesn't get across the centre halves. I'm tired of seeing him backing into and grappling with people.

You are right there are plenty of times when he has to be better at getting across the front defenders, and there is plenty of work to do on his mobility and fitness. Do you not think him backing in, grappling and sucking in defenders could be an effective tool though? Plenty of times where he has created space for others.

I'll give an example, late on in the game on Saturday there is a situation where the ball starts on the left flank with Nkoudou about in line with the penalty area. Ball then gets worked inside to Janssen, who fights off Morgan (who has been sucked out of the defensive line) and the ball is laid off the Eriksen - at this point we have an extremely promising opening. From his starting position, Nkoudou has drifted inside following the ball, but then fails to react to a golden opportunity to run into the space created where Morgan has got sucked in to following Janssen, he just keeps creeping across the field towards the ball and the chance of a through ball in on goal is gone. Eriksen eventually tries to clip it in behind back to Janssen, but he's got to turn and run through Morgan which isn't going to happen, and Leicester easily mop up the loose ball.

Now that's an example using a rookie player, but currently I doubt any of our players would be making that run. Whereas the likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool I think it's a different story. Janssen isn't, in my opinion, doing a bad job at all at creating space and opportunities for others, we just need to get everyone on the same wavelength and adapt to it.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

You are right there are plenty of times when he has to be better at getting across the front defenders, and there is plenty of work to do on his mobility and fitness. Do you not think him backing in, grappling and sucking in defenders could be an effective tool though? Plenty of times where he has created space for others.

I'll give an example, late on in the game on Saturday there is a situation where the ball starts on the left flank with Nkoudou about in line with the penalty area. Ball then gets worked inside to Janssen, who fights off Morgan (who has been sucked out of the defensive line) and the ball is laid off the Eriksen - at this point we have an extremely promising opening. From his starting position, Nkoudou has drifted inside following the ball, but then fails to react to a golden opportunity to run into the space created where Morgan has got sucked in to following Janssen, he just keeps creeping across the field towards the ball and the chance of a through ball in on goal is gone. Eriksen eventually tries to clip it in behind back to Janssen, but he's got to turn and run through Morgan which isn't going to happen, and Leicester easily mop up the loose ball.

Now that's an example using a rookie player, but currently I doubt any of our players would be making that run. Whereas the likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool I think it's a different story. Janssen isn't, in my opinion, doing a bad job at all at creating space and opportunities for others, we just need to get everyone on the same wavelength and adapt to it.

I will seek out this passage of play, @mpickard2087 , but to be honest, what he is currently bringing to the table falls so far short of where the bar is for a team that aspires to challenge for the title/finish in the top 4/compete in the CL, I think it is tragic. We might as well have gone and signed Victor Anichebe on a free transfer.

 

[mpickard2087]

I will seek out this passage of play, @mpickard2087 , but to be honest, what he is currently bringing to the table falls so far short of where the bar is for a team that aspires to challenge for the title/finish in the top 4/compete in the CL, I think it is tragic. We might as well have gone and signed Victor Anichebe on a free transfer.

Look you know me, I am as critical as anyone, he definitely needs huge improvement in some areas and for £17m its arguably not on, but this isn't some absolutely useless sack of shit like Soldado for instance... His hold up play when you get it into his feet is up there with the best in the division, this guy has been roughing up the likes of Huth, Morgan, and WBA's neanderthals s in recent weeks. It's just how you maximise this in terms of the players around him and running off him. I suspect Poch wants him as Plan B to emulate the Rickie Lambert/Jay Rodriguez type partnership from Soton where the big focal point up top occupies defenders and clears a path for the main goal scorer ( would have to be Son or Alli in that set up), whilst hopefully chipping in with a few himself across the season.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Look you know me, I am as critical as anyone, he definitely needs huge improvement in some areas and for £17m its arguably not on, but this isn't some absolutely useless sack of shit like Soldado for instance... His hold up play when you get it into his feet is up there with the best in the division, this guy has been roughing up the likes of Huth, Morgan, and WBA's neanderthals s in recent weeks. It's just how you maximise this in terms of the players around him and running off him. I suspect Poch wants him as Plan B to emulate the Rickie Lambert/Jay Rodriguez type partnership from Soton where the big focal point up top occupies defenders and clears a path for the main goal scorer ( would have to be Son or Alli in that set up), whilst hopefully chipping in with a few himself across the season.

I think that's Caveman Football, @mpickard2087. We've been waiting years to buy a striker who wasn't a prick or a dud. We were an attractive option this summer, even if we are very tight with wages.

Jermain Defoe drove me mental, but I have genuinely often had the feeling that we should not have let him go.


I'm looking for Janssen's stats from Saturday and I see he made 0 blocks, 0 interceptions, 0 tackles and won 1 aerial duel.

 

[mpickard2087]

I think that's Caveman Football, @mpickard2087. We've been waiting years to buy a striker who wasn't a prick or a dud. We were an attractive option this summer, even if we are very tight with wages.

Jermain Defoe drove me mental, but I have genuinely often had the feeling that we should not have let him go.


I'm looking for Janssen's stats from Saturday and I see he made 0 blocks, 0 interceptions, 0 tackles and won 1 aerial duel.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about hoofing it up to him from any old angle and hoping to win the second ball, like the often turgid six months of Crouch and Van Der Vaart. I'm talking about playing possession football, having the option to play the forward pass, cutting out opposition defensive lines, into Janssen's feet and then him finding the runner off him. Like his play against WBA getting it and then turning it round the corner for the runners Alli and Lamela. Or he can even go himself as we saw with his spin and shot at the weekend.

I'll ignore the Defoe comments...

 

[jonathanhotspur]

You are right there are plenty of times when he has to be better at getting across the front defenders, and there is plenty of work to do on his mobility and fitness. Do you not think him backing in, grappling and sucking in defenders could be an effective tool though? Plenty of times where he has created space for others.

I'll give an example, late on in the game on Saturday there is a situation where the ball starts on the left flank with Nkoudou about in line with the penalty area. Ball then gets worked inside to Janssen, who fights off Morgan (who has been sucked out of the defensive line) and the ball is laid off the Eriksen - at this point we have an extremely promising opening. From his starting position, Nkoudou has drifted inside following the ball, but then fails to react to a golden opportunity to run into the space created where Morgan has got sucked in to following Janssen, he just keeps creeping across the field towards the ball and the chance of a through ball in on goal is gone. Eriksen eventually tries to clip it in behind back to Janssen, but he's got to turn and run through Morgan which isn't going to happen, and Leicester easily mop up the loose ball.

Now that's an example using a rookie player, but currently I doubt any of our players would be making that run. Whereas the likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool I think it's a different story. Janssen isn't, in my opinion, doing a bad job at all at creating space and opportunities for others, we just need to get everyone on the same wavelength and adapt to it.

Yeah, I've looked at it a number of times. Individually and as a team, that move encapsulates our attacking impotence. Not enough bodies forward and poor off the ball movement.

I don't really agree that Morgan has been sucked out of the defensive line, although there is a space between himself and Huth that could potentially be exploited. N'Koudou ended up standing still, when he might have continued his run, but there was no subtlety in our play. What is Eriksen supposed to do with the lay off from Janssen, with two Leicester players standing in front of him? He looks to return the pass but Janssen and Morgan are like two playground fatties falling over each other. He's never getting there.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about hoofing it up to him from any old angle and hoping to win the second ball, like the often turgid six months of Crouch and Van Der Vaart. I'm talking about playing possession football, having the option to play the forward pass, cutting out opposition defensive lines, into Janssen's feet and then him finding the runner off him. Like his play against WBA getting it and then turning it round the corner for the runners Alli and Lamela. Or he can even go himself as we saw with his spin and shot at the weekend.

I'll ignore the Defoe comments...

It's all the same to me, @mipickard2087. If that's all he can offer, it's not enough for me. He has the mobility of a baby elephant.

And I'm deadly serious about Defoe. Defoe or Adebayor? Defoe or Soldado? Easy choice.

 

[Vincent30]

I think that's Caveman Football, @mpickard2087. We've been waiting years to buy a striker who wasn't a prick or a dud. We were an attractive option this summer, even if we are very tight with wages.

Jermain Defoe drove me mental, but I have genuinely often had the feeling that we should not have let him go.


I'm looking for Janssen's stats from Saturday and I see he made 0 blocks, 0 interceptions, 0 tackles and won 1 aerial duel.

Oh god people quoting stats that mean nothing. Who wants a striker that makes blocks, interceptions, tackles etc. Anyone who actually uses their eyes and watched the game at the weekend will see that it was one of Janssens best performances for us. Those stats don't tell you that...

He won the penalty.
He scored the penalty.
He just missed the top corner with a great freekick (considering his lack of goals, it was nice to see such confidence).
And was very unlucky with a twist and shot just past the post.
With some good hold up play throughout the game.

I keep hearing how we could have got in some superstar striker (who i may add, is likely to be Kanes number 2), but yet no one lists 4 or 5 potetnial strikers we REALISTICALLY could have signed this summer.... taking into account the wages we pay, ridiculous fees that were about in the summer etc. And of course 'these amazing stikers' we didn't sign would have blown the preimer league away, banging in 8 goals so far and being on for the golden boot, whilst we destroy every team we play. But unfortunately we got lumbered with the highest goal scorer in Holland last year, who consistently performs and scores at internaitonal level and is at the tender age of 22 playing his first games in this league. Fuck, we laugh at Liverpool fans being delluded.

 

[Shadydan]

Oh god people quoting stats that mean nothing. Who wants a striker that makes blocks, interceptions, tackles etc. Anyone who actually uses their eyes and watched the game at the weekend will see that it was one of Janssens best performances for us. Those stats don't tell you that...

He won the penalty.
He scored the penalty.
He just missed the top corner with a great freekick (considering his lack of goals, it was nice to see such confidence).
And was very unlucky with a twist and shot just past the post.
With some good hold up play throughout the game.

I keep hearing how we could have got in some superstar striker (who i may add, is likely to be Kanes number 2), but yet no one lists 4 or 5 potetnial strikers we REALISTICALLY could have signed this summer.... taking into account the wages we pay, ridiculous fees that were about in the summer etc. And of course 'these amazing stikers' we didn't sign would have blown the preimer league away, banging in 8 goals so far and being on for the golden boot, whilst we destroy every team we play. But unfortunately we got lumbered with the highest goal scorer in Holland last year, who consistently performs and scores at internaitonal level and is at the tender age of 22 playing his first games in this league. Fuck, we laugh at Liverpool fans being delluded.

Good post Vince but you're not fooling anyone, could have at least disguised your name.

 

[Misfit]

Long time no read, my little misfitty wisfitty. The draws are getting boring!

Hello matey. Still, we've started well. No hangover from last season.

Trust all is well with you and yours.