Tottenham vs Roma: Match Thread

[mpickard2087]

cheers for posting but makes for worrying reading

I don't think anyone should be worried, I am sure we'll be a different animal in a few weeks time.

To be fair to the players, it looks like we went from a physically demanding game on Saturday night, flew straight to NY and have been doing promo events for most of the time since then. Probably not had the most serious preparation for the game.

 

[cabinfever]

I wonder if part of Harry's frustration and anger is that he knew from training with Fazio that he could beat him easily one on one. He did so in the match, committing Fazio to the tackle, and got scythed down, exactly as he expected. And then the ref, either useless or something worse, refused to give the clear penalty.

In truth, we've seen some awful CB play in this tournament, some of it from Spurs players. But if we'd paid Euros 35 million (plus 10 milllion add ons) for Lindelof, and then seen the penalty he gave away with a tackle so late it made Fazio look like Usain Bolt, I'd be worried.

I hadn't seen that, its shocking!!

 

[cabinfever]

I don't think anyone should be worried, I am sure we'll be a different animal in a few weeks time.

To be fair to the players, it looks like we went from a physically demanding game on Saturday night, flew straight to NY and have been doing promo events for most of the time since then. Probably not had the most serious preparation for the game.

Potch probably had them doing double sessions earlier in the day too!!

 

[coys200]

I hope we start strongest team against city.i think psychologically it's important we don't take a pounding.Wimmer and Ccv will get hopelessly exposed against their firepower.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Out of interest, how are man utd top of the table in this cup with 5 points after a win and a draw?

Bonus point for winning a penalty shoot out. Absolute Ronald McDonald of a 'competition'.

 

[JimmyG2]

Winsome/losome.
Got the rub of the green v PSG, but not this morning.
Pleased to see more of the fringers especially the youngsters
but only seen extended highlights v Roma (Thanks gilzeantheking)
so it's difficult to judge positional play.

Like the spirit of the boys when 2-0 down
goals for Vinny and Harry W.
They looked slick and we were a bit pedestrian.
Eriksen made a difference.
Any thoughts on Josh in that formation?

Thanks to all those posting having seen the game in real time

Extended highlights. Hmm...
Must get me haircut today.

 

[Krafty]

Some shocking refereeing there, also some of the commentary was a bit pre-season too on those highlights.

Not sure how much Poch works on shape in the games (as against in training) so not going to comment too much on the starting line-up.

Wimmer's regression has been disturbing. I don't know what happened last summer but he has looked a shadow of the player ever since.

 

[cabinfever]

Winsome/losome.
Got the rub of the green v PSG, but not this morning.
Pleased to see more of the fringers especially the youngsters
but only seen extended highlights v Roma (Thanks gilzeantheking)
so it's difficult to judge positional play.

Like the spirit of the boys when 2-0 down
goals for Vinny and Harry W.
They looked slick and we were a bit pedestrian.
Eriksen made a difference.
Any thoughts on Josh in that formation?

Thanks to all those posting having seen the game in real time

Extended highlights. Hmm...
Must get me haircut today.

He didn't set the world on fire by any stretch of the imagination, however, I thought he was better there.

 

[JAYSTAR]

Midfield is our issue imo. We're all excited about the potential of our young boys, but the reality is that when our youngsters play in there it is often men against boys when it comes to CL teams and probably most top half PL teams. If we are going to compete on multiple fronts we need an experienced CM. If we are happy just trying to get top 4, we'll be fine. But our midfield is critical to the way we play and we need to strengthen there if we want to win trophies.

Wanyama and Dembele are the best partnership in the league, but Dier is not actually all that great as back up in CM imo. He is ponderous and sometimes aloof. I love him as a CB in a 3, but in CDM with the way we now play (not just possession, but quick movement and releasing of the ball) he slows everything down and sometimes gives the ball away in dangerous positions. We all love him, but if we look at the overall effect on the team, it is noticeable that the ball doesn't reach the front players as often or as quickly. Wanyama is both defensive and quick to release the ball forwards, hence the difference I reckon.

Winks is decent but not top drawer, so definitely our first back up right now. But as soon as we rest Dembele or Wanyama, our midfield dramatically weakens. Without one of them, there is a disconnect between the middle and the front four or three.

In attack, without Eriksen we are toothless too, no creativity, so we need him to stay fit and play a lot of games. Alli will no doubt wake up at some point, but we need Lamela and Son to get fit asap to have other options. Which they will, so not worried.

Of the younsters: CCV has potential, but currently makes poor decisions, getting the wrong side of players at times, Onomah is getting better, but ball watches and often doesn't pick up the oppo midfielder / winger when we are defending, and like many of the youngsters plays hopeful passes that are often intercepted, Walker Peters will develop over the year in cup games probably, but we may still need another RWB.

Lots of this can be coached out of players over time, but there is not enough time to do that right now imo. We need another CM sooner rather than later if we are going to keep pace with the top teams and compete for trophies and more composure when things are going against us. It was gutting Roma cheated their way to that win.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think anyone should be worried, I am sure we'll be a different animal in a few weeks time.

To be fair to the players, it looks like we went from a physically demanding game on Saturday night, flew straight to NY and have been doing promo events for most of the time since then. Probably not had the most serious preparation for the game.

What really, really worries me MP, is Poch's continued using of Dier in midfield. He's fucking awful, I mean really terrible. He doesn't want the ball if there's anyone wishing 5 yards of him, he walks around like there's no urgency, he doesn't offer himself to players desperately needing an out ball when we are trying to play out. He dives in wrecklessly and allows the opposition to go past the midfield and run at our high line, then when we are deeper he just backs off completely and allows them acres of time to play a pass. Several times last night he retreated into the back 3 FFS. And him and Dembele together just sucks the life out of any transitional tempo, by the time these two have made a vertical pass the opposition have got 10 men behind the ball, pulled out their deck chairs, smoked a fag, and updated their facebook status. And the minute you put any pressure on Dier his passing goes to pish.

And for some very bizarre reason Poch utterly refuses to play Onomah in CM. He plays Cm every week for the U23's. Plays there when England U20 win the WC. Plays there in training (quoted as saying he understudies Dembele etc). But every single minute he's had for the first team he's shunted up to AM. It's fucking mind boggling.

And then we have Trippier playing 90 at RB and KWP playing 45 at LB. Why not just swap KWP over at HT? We and he might learn something.

As for my key thought on the game, and this has probably already been said in here, but this game tremendously showcased how vital Eriksen is to our system. Without him, the movement, orchestration, and cohesion through the middle was almost negligible. Hate to inflict any possible PTSD, but we looked like the AVB sides from 2013/14, albeit with better players.

Found myself disappointed to see this I must admit, as I had thought that we had transcended beyond one genuine focal point for creativity and cohesion. A player such as Winks has the ability to compensate, but in the higher positions we simply don't have a player capable of offering even close to a similar contribution. This isn't all negative though, as it still goes to show how blessed we are to (still) have Eriksen at the club.

There have been many times under Poch when we have looked very AVB, largely because they both have very similar ethos's. If you watched AVB's Porto you'd think he was like Poch of last season, if you watch us with players like Dier/Dembele in CM together, we can look like AVB Tottenham without Bale.

And dier is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen wear a spurs shirt,the love for this guy just baffles me.Time and time again he looks woeful in possession of the ball,he just looks so uncomfortable it's painful too watch.If I knew for sure we'd replace him and not count on kids I'd take £50m and run for the hills.

I share your frustration completely. If I thought Dier was going to keep playing in CM I'd sell him too. Tomorrow. But I do like him as a CB, he's got learning to do but I think has bags of leadership potential there and could see him being an Alderwerield type one day.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

My views on Eriksen are well known, he's absolutely pivotal for us and is our fulcrum, but I think the biggest improvement yesterday arose from swapping Dier for Winks, immediately there was some fucking vim and drive from the engine room, it was like the fucking anchor was lifted.

 

[yanno]

Poch just isn't doing us or Dier any favours continually playing him as a CM. He's fucking awful. Can't press and just retreats when they attack, or dives in and sells himself exposing the back 3, the opposite of what he's supposed to do. He walks around hiding from the ball when the defenders or FB's have it, has no vision. Just fucking awful, and has been for a long time. Just cannot understand what Poch is doing.

I agree. When we're playing 3 CBs, there is absolutely no case for playing Eric Dier in CM.

We need CMs who will show for the ball and use it fluidly and to set attacks moving. Both Winks and Onomah would have the protection behind them to be brave in this formation, and it's crystal clear that Josh needs to play centrally to be able to influence play.

I can only hope that Poch will use this match as evidence to make it clear to Dier that, regardless of whether he sees himself as a CM/DM, in a 3 CB system his position is at the back.

 

[bigfrooj]

I watched the whole thing live and all I can say it was a complete mess of a game for all concerned. Not a lot to get from it really except it was good for Janssen to score, nice anticipation, and it was my first sight of Georgiou who did well with his wing play and caused problems with his crosses; I want to see more of him in a more structured game. In reality everyone ran around a lot and got a little fitter, no more than that. As for the referee.....

 

[DaSpurs]

What really, really worries me MP, is Poch's continued using of Dier in midfield. He's fucking awful, I mean really terrible. He doesn't want the ball if there's anyone wishing 5 yards of him, he walks around like there's no urgency, he doesn't offer himself to players desperately needing an out ball when we are trying to play out. He dives in wrecklessly and allows the opposition to go past the midfield and run at our high line, then when we are deeper he just backs off completely and allows them acres of time to play a pass. Several times last night he retreated into the back 3 FFS. And him and Dembele together just sucks the life out of any transitional tempo, by the time these two have made a vertical pass the opposition have got 10 men behind the ball, pulled out their deck chairs, smoked a fag, and updated their facebook status. And the minute you put any pressure on Dier his passing goes to pish.

And for some very bizarre reason Poch utterly refuses to play Onomah in CM. He plays Cm every week for the U23's. Plays there when England U20 win the WC. Plays there in training (quoted as saying he understudies Dembele etc). But every single minute he's had for the first team he's shunted up to AM. It's fucking mind boggling.

And then we have Trippier playing 90 at RB and KWP playing 45 at LB. Why not just swap KWP over at HT? We and he might learn something.



There have been many times under Poch when we have looked very AVB, largely because they both have very similar ethos's. If you watched AVB's Porto you'd think he was like Poch of last season, if you watch us with players like Dier/Dembele in CM together, we can look like AVB Tottenham without Bale.



I share your frustration completely. If I thought Dier was going to keep playing in CM I'd sell him too. Tomorrow. But I do like him as a CB, he's got learning to do but I think has bags of leadership potential there and could see him being an Alderwerield type one day.

Agreed with all of this, but that match showcased it pretty plainly, Dier was quite poor. Tricky situation for Poch as he clearly wishes to keep Dier, but that was just unacceptable and IMO worthy of a harsh reaction from Poch.

 

[Atomic Flea]

I watched the first 35 minutes of the game. Albeit a friendly, but we lacked any enthusiasm and drive in the midfield (unsure how that improved from then onwards). I found Dier looked very sluggish but that's what pre-season is all about I guess.

 

[Bobbins]

cheers for posting but makes for worrying reading

No, it doesn't, it was our second pre-season game FFS

 

[RichieS]

cheers for posting but makes for worrying reading

Do you even football?

Every single thing in the post you quoted is entirely expected after the second match of pre-season.

 

[dontcallme]

Do you even football?

Every single thing in the post you quoted is entirely expected after the second match of pre-season.

Does he even football? I football at weekends sometimes.

 

[RichieS]

Does he even football? I football at weekends sometimes.

I used to, but my knees and ankles are shot. I'm only 32.

 

[razzmaster]

I used to, but my knees and ankles are shot. I'm only 32.

Oh Richie Richie, he's only got one knee, he's better than @dwaynedibley , oh Richie Richie