Tottenham vs Roma: Match Thread

[cabinfever]

I watched the first 35 minutes of the game. Albeit a friendly, but we lacked any enthusiasm and drive in the midfield (unsure how that improved from then onwards). I found Dier looked very sluggish but that's what pre-season is all about I guess.

I fairness it improved in the 2nd half

 

[mpickard2087]

What really, really worries me MP, is Poch's continued using of Dier in midfield. He's fucking awful, I mean really terrible. He doesn't want the ball if there's anyone wishing 5 yards of him, he walks around like there's no urgency, he doesn't offer himself to players desperately needing an out ball when we are trying to play out. He dives in wrecklessly and allows the opposition to go past the midfield and run at our high line, then when we are deeper he just backs off completely and allows them acres of time to play a pass. Several times last night he retreated into the back 3 FFS. And him and Dembele together just sucks the life out of any transitional tempo, by the time these two have made a vertical pass the opposition have got 10 men behind the ball, pulled out their deck chairs, smoked a fag, and updated their facebook status. And the minute you put any pressure on Dier his passing goes to pish.

And for some very bizarre reason Poch utterly refuses to play Onomah in CM. He plays Cm every week for the U23's. Plays there when England U20 win the WC. Plays there in training (quoted as saying he understudies Dembele etc). But every single minute he's had for the first team he's shunted up to AM. It's fucking mind boggling.

And then we have Trippier playing 90 at RB and KWP playing 45 at LB. Why not just swap KWP over at HT? We and he might learn something.



There have been many times under Poch when we have looked very AVB, largely because they both have very similar ethos's. If you watched AVB's Porto you'd think he was like Poch of last season, if you watch us with players like Dier/Dembele in CM together, we can look like AVB Tottenham without Bale.



I share your frustration completely. If I thought Dier was going to keep playing in CM I'd sell him too. Tomorrow. But I do like him as a CB, he's got learning to do but I think has bags of leadership potential there and could see him being an Alderwerield type one day.

I agree that last night the 3CB with Dier and Dembele didn't work at all. You had the cm2 often sat right on top of them not pushing up the pitch and not really offering much. This then left Onomah and particularly Alli and Kane isolated and then starting to drop deeper as our frontline sunk back. I'd hope that Poch now sees that 3Cb + Dier doing his half and half thing is overkill, and if it took a pre-season game to see this then its the best time.

You know I'm not a huge fan of Dier the midfielder anyway, he does a passable job but that's it (I think he'd be much better in a cm3 than a cm2, but that's a different topic). What I have noticed though is that recently Poch, or Dier himself, has decided that he should play exactly like Wanyama does in being ultra aggressive and hunting things down, when he doesn't have Vic's mobility to do that job.

 

[bubble07]

Do you even football?

Every single thing in the post you quoted is entirely expected after the second match of pre-season.

So you are one of those fans then

 

[hughy]

So you are one of those fans then

Realistic?

 

[glospur]

It's funny my dier post already has x3 disagree lol.there really is an army that won't have a bad word said about him,I'm sure they are teenage girls that just drool over his James Bond looks.Anyway as said one of best things about last night was our hunger.In the 1st half our pressing was insane.Also special mention for Ben Davies.Rarely seems to get a mention,but always forget how young he is,has been quality on the whole since rose been out and improving all the time.

Yeah, just like Pochettino. I bet he has Dier posters plastered all over his bedroom walls and every page of his diary is adorned with 'Mr Mauricio Dier' inside a love heart.

In fact, I bet that's why our manager, one of the most respected managers in the world atm, plays Dier in pretty much every game that he's available. It's all just to get his attention and give Dier the hint that he's into him.

 

[buttons]

Just seen Fazios challenge on Kane, how on earth wasn't that a penalty?! CCV also rather unlucky!

Nice to see GKN involved in both goals and watching the Janssen goal cold i would have sworn it was Kane applying the finish.

 

[samspurs92]

My views on Eriksen are well known, he's absolutely pivotal for us and is our fulcrum, but I think the biggest improvement yesterday arose from swapping Dier for Winks, immediately there was some fucking vim and drive from the engine room, it was like the fucking anchor was lifted.

To me, our three strongest CM players are Wanyama, Winks and Dembele by a mile.

Dier should be in the back three.

 

[pffft]

You racist prick

No mate. You're probably too young to remember the Goodies, but the man was just playing with a song they did called "The Funky Gibbon", which goes "you can do the funky gibbon".

I understand why you might have thought otherwise and reacted accordingly, but you owe @fatpiranha an apology.


Edit: Hadn't realised that piranha had edited his post to include exactly this explanation.

 

[gavspur]

I think it shows the need for us to recruit a creative spark (missing without Eriksen) and a CM (missing without Wanyama/Dembele)

For me, that's Barkley and Kovacic, then the squad is instantly better. Drop Dier back to defence, that will then be him Toby and Jan, with Wimmer and CCV as absolute backups.

 

[Spurger King]

No mate. You're probably too young to remember the Goodies, but the man was just playing with a song they did called "The Funky Gibbon", which goes "you can do the funky gibbon".

I understand why you might have thought otherwise and reacted accordingly, but you owe @fatpiranha an apology.


Edit: Hadn't realised that piranha had edited his post to include exactly this explanation.

To be fair to stamford, it's a fairly obscure reference which can be easily misinterpreted at face value.

I got the reference, and it's obvious from past posts from @fatpiranha that he'd never intend to post anything that could be construed as racist, but I think in this instance it probably did require a bit of further clarification which as you say, he's now provided.

 

[Trees]

To me, our three strongest CM players are Wanyama, Winks and Dembele by a mile.

Dier should be in the back three.

Dier is a player who's true value won't be realised or appreciated until he is not playing for us.

 

[coys200]

Yeah, just like Pochettino. I bet he has Dier posters plastered all over his bedroom walls and every page of his diary is adorned with 'Mr Mauricio Dier' inside a love heart.

In fact, I bet that's why our manager, one of the most respected managers in the world atm, plays Dier in pretty much every game that he's available. It's all just to get his attention and give Dier the hint that he's into him.

Pretty sure Dier started nearly every game because he is a utility player and that's a fact.He isn't our best at anything however you cut it there's no disputing he is 2nd choice DM and 3rd choice CB.The majority of last season he was covering someone's injury.In a 4231 he simply doesn't start when all fit.And if we buy a half decent CB even a Mawson he'd have a serious fight on his hands starting in 343.Everything ive said is Fact and you can't dispute any if it .Well you could but you'd be wrong lol

 

[coys200]

Diet is a player who's true value won't be realised or appreciated until he is not playing for us.

For me the only negative of selling dier is you need 2 players to replace him.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

The players have been called back onto the field, and the referee has decided to award a penalty against Fazio for tripping Kane in the box.

 

[JimmyG2]

Pretty sure Dier started nearly every game because he is a utility player and that's a fact.He isn't our best at anything however you cut it there's no disputing he is 2nd choice DM and 3rd choice CB.The majority of last season he was covering someone's injury.In a 4231 he simply doesn't start when all fit.And if we buy a half decent CB even a Mawson he'd have a serious fight on his hands starting in 343.Everything ive said is Fact and you can't dispute any if it .Well you could but you'd be wrong lol

Everything you said is your opinion.
It may or may not be true but it is not fact.
Fact!

 

[Gambler]

Just seen the goals and bits on Skysportsnews and like other people I am bemused by the penalty decisions, I am not really bothered about the decisions, shit happens, but it does raise questions about fourth official input in that if he saw one and put the ref right why didn't he do that when he saw the other? Its not sour grapes and I'm not even complaining about the refereeing I'm just pointing out that if football thinks fourth official input will even out refereeing inconsistencies this shows they are wrong, it just doubles the opportunity for them.
Apart from all that this was a good run out, glad to see the players get angry and come back from 2-0 down and we would have learnt more from going 2-0 down than by going 2-0 up.

I've just watched the whole game and the espn commentator said that the video ref is not part of this competition so whoever changed the referee's decision was out of order.

 

[smallsnc]

I think it shows the need for us to recruit a creative spark (missing without Eriksen) and a CM (missing without Wanyama/Dembele)

For me, that's Barkley and Kovacic, then the squad is instantly better. Drop Dier back to defence, that will then be him Toby and Jan, with Wimmer and CCV as absolute backups.

I think it shows that we cannot play Dier and Dembele together in front of a back 3. Winks, I believe, provides that creative spark and I would like to see him play in front of a back 3.

 

[Bobbins]

Ridiculous how people go over board.Nkoudou touch was awful last night.lost the ball numerous times puts in one half decent cross and suddenly he is our great winger hope.Theres a reason he barely played last season.

Yeah so if you could point out the part where I went overboard or where I described him as our great winger hope that'd be great.

 

[glospur]

Pretty sure Dier started nearly every game because he is a utility player and that's a fact.He isn't our best at anything however you cut it there's no disputing he is 2nd choice DM and 3rd choice CB.The majority of last season he was covering someone's injury.In a 4231 he simply doesn't start when all fit.And if we buy a half decent CB even a Mawson he'd have a serious fight on his hands starting in 343.Everything ive said is Fact and you can't dispute any if it .Well you could but you'd be wrong lol

Yeah, only if you're from the Donald Trump School of What is and Isn't Facts, that is. Unfortunately, such a thing doesn't exist and you're categorically wrong.

There have been plenty of times over the last two seasons when everyone has been fit and he's still been picked. You don't play 73 of 76 League games over that period if that's not the case. ANd just fucking LOL at thinking Mawson is better than Eric Dier. You don't watch much football, do you?

 

[Kaboul'sForehead]

Just about functioning after 3 and a half hours sleep...

Some quick thoughts. Again as I said at full time, I think that was a fairly rusty display from us and, even with the refs input, a loss wasn't that surprising in the end. We pressed hard for about the opening 10 mins, realised Roma were a slick outfit and could play their way out, and so we got caught 'inbetween' with some pressing and some not and achieving nothing on this front. With the ball we were very sloppy, it was treated like a hot potato and along with obvious errors we were too often trying to force play with low percentage passes.

Individually a mixed bag:

Both keepers had little to do and couldn't be blamed.
Jan and Toby were not at their best.
CCV had a better game than the other night. Harsh penalty against him, and his yellow card was having to recover and bail out a team mate.
Trippier was pretty meh.
KWP was ok. Defensively no real errors, with the ball what I expected considering he's playing a bhit safe and isn't going to go on the outside when played on the left.
Dier and Dembele were individually poor, and as a duo that has to be possibly their worst outing - even if it was pre-season.
Onomah worked hard and had a few nice touches, but wasn't as involved as you'd hope as we couldn't string much play together first half.
Alli has been the worst player so far in pre-season across the two games. I'm not saying that should be made into a big deal, just calling what I have seen.
Kane got riled up second half and started putting himself about a bit, but he too is still warming up.

Wimmer didn't inspire confidence in really anything he did. Clearance for goal 2 was weak, whether he was fouled for goal 3 or not he seemed to go down very easily.
Davies was solid enough.
Winks was busy, as per, and found some nice forward touches and managed to scramble the ball home for a goal.
TOB wasn't awful, but not hugely involved and was caught ball watching for the 2nd goal when the ball broke loose. Not quite ready yet you'd say.
Eriksen was a bit subdued, cant really recall much from him.
Nkoudou came on and every touch was basically disastrous, then with his last act out of nowhere swung in a decent cross for Janssen
Georgiou... I'll be consistent and say about him as I often say about Nkoudou, he was direct without a lot of end product - and I think a lot of fans just see directness as amazing no matter what output is achieved - however he went out there looking like he knew he had nothing to lose, he worked hard and put himself about, and a couple of times he forced something by his hard work. Not a bad 45 mins at all on the whole.
Janssen didn't get too many touches, but hit the post in the build up to goal 1 and steered in goal 2 so job done.

Not great, sure we'll be better for the start of the season though....

Bang on summary. And agree entirely about your player summarises, only that I thought Ben Davies played great.