Walker

[Nocando]

Good post.

And there we have it, the final nail in the argument coffin. RIP bc.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Quite the opposite, I think we are only able to save face through our players footballing intelligence. Our coaching/tactics are a million miles behind and our ingrained methods of coaching kids and young players how to use the ball properly are light years away. We only get to where we are generally because our players do something good of their own nature.

Honestly think that some people have got the whole 'football intelligence' concept completely round their neck.

It's mostly English ex footballers coaching English kids, no ?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

So what you been getting bc for xmas bear, as it seems the signed walker shirt may result in domestic?

I've got him a Robbie Savage coaching manual.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It's mostly English ex footballers coaching English kids, no ?

More Scottish people who were never good enough footballers I would say.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Quite the opposite, I think we are only able to save face through our players footballing intelligence. Our coaching/tactics are a million miles behind and our ingrained methods of coaching kids and young players how to use the ball properly are light years away. We only get to where we are generally because our players do something good of their own nature.

Honestly think that some people have got the whole 'football intelligence' concept completely round their neck.

Honestly mate, this is utter bollocks, high quality bollocks.

Having spoken to a good few, experienced and highly qualified coaches from around Europe who have worked in academies etc - Holland / Germany / Spain etc they say the one thing they notice from English players they see and in some cases work with, is generally they lack football intelligence compared to their European counterparts, not as is commonly thought, technique. Over here we tell kids where to stand, where to move, how to do things and we create robots who are robbed of their decision making process. Places that develop top talent guide them towards their own solutions, allow players to make mistakes and constantly challenge their decision making skills - or football intelligence.

It's true that our coaching methods are way behind, but the most modern methods that the best developers of talent use are generally geared towards game intelligence, developing players who can use their technique under pressure. Training is geared towards players being constantly faced with decision making opportunities, the rise of Belgian talent has coincided with them focussing on 'brain centred learning'. Read up on it, it's really interesting.

Bear, I love you and all, but you've got this football intelligence malarky completely arse about face here.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So what you been getting bc for xmas bear, as it seems the signed walker shirt may result in domestic?

I've got him Advanced Transcendental Chess Theorem For Astronauts by Kyle Walker

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Honestly mate, this is utter bollocks, high quality bollocks.

Having spoken to a good few, experienced and highly qualified coaches from around Europe who have worked in academies etc - Holland / Germany / Spain etc they say the one thing they notice from English players they see and in some cases work with, is generally they lack football intelligence compared to their European counterparts, not as is commonly thought, technique. Over here we tell kids where to stand, where to move, how to do things and we create robots who are robbed of their decision making process. Places that develop top talent guide them towards their own solutions, allow players to make mistakes and constantly challenge their decision making skills - or football intelligence.

It's true that our coaching methods are way behind, but the most modern methods that the best developers of talent use are generally geared towards game intelligence, developing players who can use their technique under pressure. Training is geared towards players being constantly faced with decision making opportunities, the rise of Belgian talent has coincided with them focussing on 'brain centred learning'. Read up on it, it's really interesting.

Bear, I love you and all, but you've got this football intelligence malarky completely arse about face here.

I hate to say it, because it will fly in the face of another one of Bear (and BG's) pet theories, but this is something AVB has spoken about a few times, getting players to make their own decisions and improving that process.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I hate to say it, because it will fly in the face of another one of Bear (and BG's) pet theories, but this is something AVB has spoken about a few times, getting players to make their own decisions and improving that process.

He has yes, like Mourinho he is a disciple of the 'guided discovery' method of training.

What Bear will say back, and in fairness it's what I'm seeing a lot of on the pitch at the moment, is that we do tend to look pretty robotic at times, and need to see more of this intuitive play rear it's head soon, obviously within that team structure which he has laid in place so well.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

The state of coaching in this country? Exhibit A: James fucking Milner.

 

[mpickard2087]

Forget Football Intelligence, I think a good deal of footballers in the Premier League lack general intelligence full stop. I see the way some players conduct themselves and how they interview and its like they are borderline special needs (yes yes, neg away...). Its not surprising though if they sacrifice school to make it as a footballer.

What is the really bad thing though, is that these dumb-ass players then go on to become the next generation of managers and coaches due to the jobs-for-the-boys mentality. No wonder tactically and technically we lag far, far behind.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Honestly mate, this is utter bollocks, high quality bollocks.

Having spoken to a good few, experienced and highly qualified coaches from around Europe who have worked in academies etc - Holland / Germany / Spain etc they say the one thing they notice from English players they see and in some cases work with, is generally they lack football intelligence compared to their European counterparts, not as is commonly thought, technique. Over here we tell kids where to stand, where to move, how to do things and we create robots who are robbed of their decision making process. Places that develop top talent guide them towards their own solutions, allow players to make mistakes and constantly challenge their decision making skills - or football intelligence.

It's true that our coaching methods are way behind, but the most modern methods that the best developers of talent use are generally geared towards game intelligence, developing players who can use their technique under pressure. Training is geared towards players being constantly faced with decision making opportunities, the rise of Belgian talent has coincided with them focussing on 'brain centred learning'. Read up on it, it's really interesting.

Bear, I love you and all, but you've got this football intelligence malarky completely arse about face here.

I think you and BC have, you're describing producing robots, 'robbing' people of their decision making process. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm saying this is a result of poor coaching, not a 'lack of intelligence'. Wayne Rooney has carried England before, because he sometimes breaks away from the robotic shite that he has had drummed into him since he was a 16 year old pikey living on the estate. Because of his intelligence he is able to produce moments of quality.

Back to Kyle Walker though, it's still fundamental that he doesn't lack intelligence, especially in the football sense. Composure, technique maybe sometimes which gets him into trouble, BUT YOU CANNOT BE A FUCKING PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER WITHOUT HAVING FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE AND I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME OF YOU CANT GRASP THAT.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

The state of coaching in this country? Exhibit A: James fucking Milner.

Exactly, doesn't lack football intelligence, on the contrary, it's the only fucking reason he is a professional. He lacks general technique and ability to do things out of the ordinary.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He has yes, like Mourinho he is a disciple of the 'guided discovery' method of training.

What Bear will say back, and in fairness it's what I'm seeing a lot of on the pitch at the moment, is that we do tend to look pretty robotic at times, and need to see more of this intuitive play rear it's head soon, obviously within that team structure which he has laid in place so well.

That is more down to the lack of "discovery" than the "guiding" though IMO. If you put the schools best teacher in charge of the "special" kids, they may achieve more, but they are still not going to end up and Oxbridge.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think you and BC have, you're describing producing robots, 'robbing' people of their decision making process. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm saying this is a result of poor coaching, not a 'lack of intelligence'. Wayne Rooney has carried England before, because he sometimes breaks away from the robotic shite that he has had drummed into him since he was a 16 year old pikey living on the estate. Because of his intelligence he is able to produce moments of quality.

Back to Kyle Walker though, it's still fundamental that he doesn't lack intelligence, especially in the football sense. Composure, technique maybe sometimes which gets him into trouble, BUT YOU CANNOT BE A FUCKING PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER WITHOUT HAVING FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE AND I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME OF YOU CANT GRASP THAT.

But not everyone has an identical level of mental processing (intelligence) and application. And I don't understand how you can't grasp that.

Hang on, maybe I can.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Exactly, doesn't lack football intelligence, on the contrary, it's the only fucking reason he is a professional. He lacks general technique and ability to do things out of the ordinary.

Rubbish. Milner's technique is very good. It's his thought process that's not. You have got your theory completely back to front.


Just watch that England v Germany game again. The most startling difference is in the decision making on the ball and movement off the ball of the two sets of players.

This is about processing the game as it flows in their brains.


Good technique (and good technique under pressure especially) is very important but this is much easier to teach and master than the thinking and processing (intelligence) side.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Forget Football Intelligence, I think a good deal of footballers in the Premier League lack general intelligence full stop. I see the way some players conduct themselves and how they interview and its like they are borderline special needs (yes yes, neg away...). Its not surprising though if they sacrifice school to make it as a footballer.

What is the really bad thing though, is that these dumb-ass players then go on to become the next generation of managers and coaches due to the jobs-for-the-boys mentality. No wonder tactically and technically we lag far, far behind.

Bingo.


Although to be fair, academies are supposed to be addressing some of this. My nephew is at an academy now, and there is supposed to be some emphasis on the academic side too. Not sure if there is much in practice though.

 

[ShelfSide18]

BUT YOU CANNOT BE A FUCKING PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER WITHOUT HAVING FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE AND I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME OF YOU CANT GRASP THAT.

Yes, bit some professional footballers have way more football intelligence than others!

Exhibit A. Tom Hudd and Xabi Alonso. Is there that much a difference between them in terms of basic technique? Passing, receiving, both feet etc etc etc? Not a great deal.

What separates them? Oh yes, football intelligence.

With Walker, his technique is decent but yes, when it comes to making quick decisions he is often found out. The amount of times I see him cross without looking, that's a lack of football intelligence because he's gone into robot mode, 'I'm on the wing I need to cross the ball'. The more intelligent player has a look, a good few looks in fact and reacts accordingly, and players who do that find the right solution more often than those who don't.

Now I'm not saying Walker never does this, because he does and I've praised him for it, but it doesn't come entirely naturally to hi but I have high hopes of him because he has a growth mindset and wants to learn and improve. It's not that he doesn't have any football intelligence, it's that some players have more, and to bring it back to the wider debate about player development, some countries are better at developing players with football intelligence than others.

If anyone is interested / unemployed / sits in a place where their boss can't see their computer at work then here's a bit on how Belgium are developing football intelligence.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/12/17/blizzard.sinnott.mental/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9421702.stm

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Exactly, doesn't lack football intelligence, on the contrary, it's the only fucking reason he is a professional. He lacks general technique and ability to do things out of the ordinary.

Actually, I think he's as thick as pigshit on a football pitch. He might be a mastermind candidate in real life for all I know but once he crosses that white line he's dumber than snot with what I suppose i'd call an average technique. A robot. Do this, do that. Be here, be there.

 

[mpickard2087]

Bingo.


Although to be fair, academies are supposed to be addressing some of this. My nephew is at an academy now, and there is supposed to be some emphasis on the academic side too. Not sure if there is much in practice though.

Yes I'd agree from what I have read that they are trying to address things and give young academy players a more rounded education than just football.

Cant help the current generation of players and more importantly coaches/managers though.

 

[Legend10]

To accuse somebody of a lack of intelligence in any field or sector you first need to know better or be better informed yourself.

The problem arises when people accusing others especially professional others of lacking intelligence in whatever field it is they are referring to don't have the first idea of the subject or profession in hand, and that is when it becomes excruciatingly embarrassing.

Football as they say is all about opinions and there in probably lies the beauty of it, it's a game for everybody to comment on and dismiss others who make exceptional livings at it of being at least in footballing terms thick, retarded and stupid etc. If only these thick, stupid & retarded idiots knew as much as the people who call them such, just imagine how good they would be.