We Have to Get Behind Juande

[nicdic]

We cannot continue through this cycle over and over again. We need some consistency. How many times have we changed our manager in the past 20 years? And how many times has that resulted in a prolonged difference in our form? We should have got behind Jol when he was suffering, and we should be getting behind Ramos now. Change is counter productive, look at the top teams in the league, and they are the ones who have had managers for a long time.

If getting behind Ramos means the end of Comoli, and Ramos becoming fully in charge, and deserting the DoF role, so be it. It's not tactics that are causing us to lose in my opinion. Yes he is trying different teams, and maybe not being so attacking as we would like. But that is most likely due to our poor form, and him trying to find a way to make us solid defensively. The players are lacking in confidence so much, and I have to agree with Woodgate, they are the problem at the moment. We all know that last night we say a shadow of Gareth Bale playing in the second half, but this is what loss after loss can do to a player, especially a young one, of which we have many.

We're also trying to incorporate a new system and so many new players. The players need to sort there acts out, we need to get behind them and the manager.

How is fans wanting the manager out going to be any help?

Last night we were good until the individual errors started creeping back in. Gomes, O'Hara, Bale etc. Let's get behind the lads and try and be positive, at least it's better than being utterly depressed suicidal.

There are positives to take from tonight. Gomes, despite his error made some fantastic saves. Modric when he came on was pretty influential, and was impressed to see some of his tracking back.

I'm aware that I'm rambling, but please, let us get behind the manager and the players. We need to keep a manager, there is no use saying we'll keep the next one, because as soon as he looses a couple we're back to square 1, hounding him out too.

I still believe.

COYS.

 

[markie]

Ramos has no idea. I wouldnt pi** on him if he was on fire.

You are sticking up for someone that has put us in a relegation battle...

 

[markie]

I bet you think Zokora is a great player as well

 

[ackie]

We cannot continue through this cycle over and over again. We need some consistency. How many times have we changed our manager in the past 20 years? And how many times has that resulted in a prolonged difference in our form? We should have got behind Jol when he was suffering, and we should be getting behind Ramos now. Change is counter productive, look at the top teams in the league, and they are the ones who have had managers for a long time.

If getting behind Ramos means the end of Comoli, and Ramos becoming fully in charge, and deserting the DoF role, so be it. It's not tactics that are causing us to lose in my opinion. Yes he is trying different teams, and maybe not being so attacking as we would like. But that is most likely due to our poor form, and him trying to find a way to make us solid defensively. The players are lacking in confidence so much, and I have to agree with Woodgate, they are the problem at the moment. We all know that last night we say a shadow of Gareth Bale playing in the second half, but this is what loss after loss can do to a player, especially a young one, of which we have many.

We're also trying to incorporate a new system and so many new players. The players need to sort there acts out, we need to get behind them and the manager.

How is fans wanting the manager out going to be any help?

Last night we were good until the individual errors started creeping back in. Gomes, O'Hara, Bale etc. Let's get behind the lads and try and be positive, at least it's better than being utterly depressed suicidal.

There are positives to take from tonight. Gomes, despite his error made some fantastic saves. Modric when he came on was pretty influential, and was impressed to see some of his tracking back.

I'm aware that I'm rambling, but please, let us get behind the manager and the players. We need to keep a manager, there is no use saying we'll keep the next one, because as soon as he looses a couple we're back to square 1, hounding him out too.

I still believe.

COYS.

I agree with you. We will come out of this mess and will not be relegated, we won't be top 5 but we may have a cup. Well at the moment i don't care if we win cups or not, but i am confident!
Let's get behind the team and Juande. Lets show support.
Its a bad patch but we are loyal spurs fans - so COYS!!!

 

[markie]

I agree with you. We will come out of this mess and will not be relegated, we won't be top 5 but we may have a cup. Well at the moment i don't care if we win cups or not, but i am confident!
Let's get behind the team and Juande. Lets show support.
Its a bad patch but we are loyal spurs fans - so COYS!!!

Its a little more than that... :roll:

 

[SpurSince57]

It's a bad patch that's lasted since Christmas. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[roosh]

We cannot continue through this cycle over and over again. We need some consistency. How many times have we changed our manager in the past 20 years? And how many times has that resulted in a prolonged difference in our form? We should have got behind Jol when he was suffering, and we should be getting behind Ramos now. Change is counter productive, look at the top teams in the league, and they are the ones who have had managers for a long time.

If getting behind Ramos means the end of Comoli, and Ramos becoming fully in charge, and deserting the DoF role, so be it. It's not tactics that are causing us to lose in my opinion. Yes he is trying different teams, and maybe not being so attacking as we would like. But that is most likely due to our poor form, and him trying to find a way to make us solid defensively. The players are lacking in confidence so much, and I have to agree with Woodgate, they are the problem at the moment. We all know that last night we say a shadow of Gareth Bale playing in the second half, but this is what loss after loss can do to a player, especially a young one, of which we have many.

We're also trying to incorporate a new system and so many new players. The players need to sort there acts out, we need to get behind them and the manager.

How is fans wanting the manager out going to be any help?

Last night we were good until the individual errors started creeping back in. Gomes, O'Hara, Bale etc. Let's get behind the lads and try and be positive, at least it's better than being utterly depressed suicidal.

There are positives to take from tonight. Gomes, despite his error made some fantastic saves. Modric when he came on was pretty influential, and was impressed to see some of his tracking back.

I'm aware that I'm rambling, but please, let us get behind the manager and the players. We need to keep a manager, there is no use saying we'll keep the next one, because as soon as he looses a couple we're back to square 1, hounding him out too.

I still believe.

COYS.

The problem is that there is absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis that sticking with Ramos is the right decision - his performance so far has been appalling. There was ample evidence to support sticking with Martin Jol.

What you are calling for is consistency for consistency's sake. At the moment we are very consistent - we consistently lose and fail to create chances. Different situations call for different actions. Last season the correct action would have been to back the manager - because he had earned that right. This season the correct action to take is to change things because they aren't working.

The prudent thing to do in any walk of life is have a plan and implement it. Then to carry out periodic reviews to see if that plan is yielding dividends and leading us towards our goals. If the plan is not having the desired effect, then corrective action should be taken.

Corrective action needs to be taken and it needs to be taken now.

You cannot underestimate the negative effect each loss has on the team. The effect of one loss at this stage of the season is much greater than in the first game. Every poor result from at this stage is subject to the law of increasing returns where the effect of each individual loss gets worse and worse. The longer it goes on the harder it will be to reverse. It is a largely psychological problem but one that every single person on this planet is subject to, regardless of how much they get paid.

We need to do something now to redress this balance, we need to do something that that will have a psychological effect on the players, something that will lift them psychologically, and the only reasonable suggestion at this stage seems to be getting in someone who can halt this psychological malaise.
This will require someone who can communicate directly with the players and motivate them.

Changes in manager have proven to have this effect.

 

[Real_madyidd]

I am now in the pro-sack-Ramos group.

 

[teddyboy]

We cannot continue through this cycle over and over again. We need some consistency. How many times have we changed our manager in the past 20 years? And how many times has that resulted in a prolonged difference in our form? We should have got behind Jol when he was suffering, and we should be getting behind Ramos now. Change is counter productive, look at the top teams in the league, and they are the ones who have had managers for a long time.

If getting behind Ramos means the end of Comoli, and Ramos becoming fully in charge, and deserting the DoF role, so be it. It's not tactics that are causing us to lose in my opinion. Yes he is trying different teams, and maybe not being so attacking as we would like. But that is most likely due to our poor form, and him trying to find a way to make us solid defensively. The players are lacking in confidence so much, and I have to agree with Woodgate, they are the problem at the moment. We all know that last night we say a shadow of Gareth Bale playing in the second half, but this is what loss after loss can do to a player, especially a young one, of which we have many.

We're also trying to incorporate a new system and so many new players. The players need to sort there acts out, we need to get behind them and the manager.

How is fans wanting the manager out going to be any help?

Last night we were good until the individual errors started creeping back in. Gomes, O'Hara, Bale etc. Let's get behind the lads and try and be positive, at least it's better than being utterly depressed suicidal.

There are positives to take from tonight. Gomes, despite his error made some fantastic saves. Modric when he came on was pretty influential, and was impressed to see some of his tracking back.

I'm aware that I'm rambling, but please, let us get behind the manager and the players. We need to keep a manager, there is no use saying we'll keep the next one, because as soon as he looses a couple we're back to square 1, hounding him out too.

I still believe.

COYS.

I'd appreciate a break from consistency if you don’t mind - especially when you consider we’ve been consistently shit since we won the league cup...

:shrug:

 

[thebenjamin]

He'll be sacked Monday morning.

 

[Mullers]

However much I would like Ramos to succeed, I can see why people are upset and want him out. I don't see why Comoli should go and Ramos should stay. Ramos is the one in charge of the team. Having no DOF would just increase Ramos workload. Its good to be optimistic but there should be some realism too. Our form in the league since Ramos took over is woeful. Players not being motivated after the CC win isn't acceptable. We've lost Berbatov and Keane but he got most of the players he wanted.

With the group of players we have we shouldn't be bottom of the table. The buck stops with Ramos.

 

[MattyP]

He'll be sacked Monday morning.

Guaranteed, or speculative guess?

 

[LadieK]

It's a bad patch that's lasted since Christmas. Wake up and smell the coffee.

:clap:

 

[Hoowl]

As I said in another thread, I do think individual errors cost us last night and agaist Stoke. However, Ramos has yet to give any indication that he can managed a team in the premiership and a single point from home games against Sunderland, Villa, Wigan and Stoke is not good enough. However, whilst he is in charge I will be behind him 100% on a match day.

 

[Captain Spur]

I don't like the cycle of changing managers like underpants either. Something has to be done though, we simply can't play people in wrong positions and just generally bad formation choices. Those are his decisions, I accept that the players are also responsible for playing well below their standards. Surely though that is something he should be sorting out the training pitch and laying into them when necessary.

 

[beals]

I wanted Ramos to succeed sooo much. At last we had a manager who was up there with the best. Should of knew better. I am as sick as the next fan, of us sacking our managers one after the other. The continual seasons of transition, how long ago was Hoddle's five year plan. However if this continues what choice do we have, just let it and run and end up in the championship? Each game this season I've fooled myself into thinking this is the game when we will turn it around, but I can't even see any shoots of recovery appearing, we just seem to be getting worse, Gomes, Bale, now O'Hara, even King and Woodgate aren't playing at their normal levels. Its just a mess. But then again if we do shoot JR (sorry couldn't resist), who do we bring in? Poyet, will that make any difference, what manager worth his salt is going to jump ship mid season? not many. The only man I can think of at the moment is Roy Keane, but there is no way he would shit on Sunderland, especially after all the work he has put in. So therefore I reckon we just have to keep what we have, and support him and the team 100% and hope that he turns the situation around. Here's hoping COYS.

 

[sidford]

completely agree nicdic and thanks for a level headed post!

 

[brasil_spur]

Ramos has no idea. I wouldnt pi** on him if he was on fire.

You are sticking up for someone that has put us in a relegation battle...

Ummm, i think he's probably sticking up for someone who has won us more trophies since he took over than any of our previous managers during the last 9 years, and has won as many trophies as any manager has since 1991!

It's a bad patch that's lasted since Christmas. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Yeh that bad patch we had against Arsenal and Chelsea that led to us winning the league cup was horrible!

The reason i'm standing up for Ramos is that people here seem to have quickly forgotten how successful he was with us last season - that was our most successful season for a long time - yet people dismiss it, thinking that we were better off with Jol, depsite the fact that all Jol achieved was a few places higher up the league and some bad cup runs.

I think it's getting close to 'Ramos out' time, but we can't for one second dis-respect the fact that he has been our most successful manager since Graham! And joint-best manager since Venables!!!

 

[onthetwo]

agree that the club generally hires too many players and managers. Thing is the stats suggest that the current manager and players are the WORST WE'VE HAD IN 20 YEARS so, remind me again, why do you want to stick with them? Do you have a crystal ball?

 

[Hoowl]

We cannot continue through this cycle over and over again. We need some consistency. How many times have we changed our manager in the past 20 years? And how many times has that resulted in a prolonged difference in our form? We should have got behind Jol when he was suffering, and we should be getting behind Ramos now. Change is counter productive, look at the top teams in the league, and they are the ones who have had managers for a long time.

It's easy to say that change is counter productive but consistency (in terms of keeping the coach) is only a good idea if you have the right man in charge. The catch 22 is that this can only be determined retrospectively by which point it could be too late. If a coach gets sacked you never find out the answer. If Ramos had performed as well as any of the managers of the top sides in the league we wouldn't be considering his position. Yes SAF had a run of 6 losses and 2 draws in his second year at United but he had taken them to second place in the league the year before. Jol had got us to two fifth places before his poor run resulted in Levy looking for a replacement. Ramos has shown nothing in the league so far to suggest he can do any better than he is.

The decision to sack a coach needs to be based on what has happened rather than what might happen. This comes down to results. The question is over what period do you judge these results? How long can you afford to give someone if there is a chance he is the wrong man? That is for Levy to answer. As I said, whilst Ramos is still in charge i will still support him 100% on match days.