What our opponents' fans are saying

[Donki]

Lets check...what is your opinion on Colin Murray?

Commentating legend.... next...

 

[Coyboy]

This player for player comparison is pointless.

 

[Shadydan]

This player for player comparison is pointless.

The player for player comparisons are always worth a laugh it has to be said.

 

[Coyboy]

The player for player comparisons are always worth a laugh it has to be said.

True, I did spend a whole year at school arguing with a West Ham as to who was better out of Berkovic and Ginola. I think by the end of the season I had made him see the truth. Meant I learnt nothing in RE class. Oh well.

 

[CphCOYS]

Some of the comments from Red Cafe not already posted:

Been a while that Spurs have not had one single player I'd have at United but that's where they are now, bang on average all over the pitch, they'll finish 6th at best

If we don't buy any other CBs, I'd have Vertonghen. He is, at least, at the level of Jones and Smalling and we lack the numbers right now to play with 3 at the back.

-

I'd rather Dawson than Vertonghen, he's an accident waiting to happen (so is Dawson tbf)

- Be my guest.

In terms of #10s in the world, I can't think of many I'd put above Mata. In fact, I'm struggling to think of any. Wouldn't put Ozil ahead of him, same level for me. Oscar isn't as good, yet. James - gotta see him at Madrid first, but he's not as good as Mata yet. Gotze - again, not yet.

Silva is probably better actually, although Mata wins in the finishing stakes.

As for World Class players it is quite simple. Spurs has none.

United, I'd say, has got one World Class player and that is Van Persie. Although, Herrera could become one and Mata is definitely thereabout.

Arsenal has got potentially two World Class players in Ozil and Sanchez, if they will live up to the tag will have to be seen coming season.

Spurs squad is still not good. Of the 40 players you've signed over the past 3-5 seasons, only a handful are worth anything. You can consider Poch a great coaching addition and say that it will give you an advantage of Manchester United, but you've conveniently forgotten that we've also improved dramatically in that department. Van Gaal, despite the excitement and hyperbole on this forum as of late, is a far more experienced, proven, and talented manager than Poch is, and Van Gaal has a better squad to work with than Spuds do.

Of the players you have available, the only I'd rate as top 4 quality are Lloris, Vertonghen, Paulinho, Eriksen. Sandro is a headless chicken in a positional/tactical sense, Capoue is a very plain footballer, Dawson, Walker, Rose, Kaboul are absolute dross. Lennon is a speed merchant and nothing else, and Townsend is a pub league player.

GlastonSpur said: ↑
I see. So Herrera "could become" world class, but the likes of Lloris, Eriksen and Lamela don't get a mention in your future potential classifications? :lol:

Eriksen maybe, but he is a bit lightweight in my opinion. Lloris and Lamela are good, but won't become World Class.

 

[dirtyh]

"James - gotta see him at Madrid first, but he's not as good as Mata yet. Gotze - again, not yet."

red café? more like rawk café.

 

[Lufti]

Some of the comments from Red Cafe not already posted:

As for World Class players it is quite simple. Spurs has none.

United, I'd say, has got one World Class player and that is Van Persie. Although, Herrera could become one and Mata is definitely thereabout.

Arsenal has got potentially two World Class players in Ozil and Sanchez, if they will live up to the tag will have to be seen coming season.

I think this is a fair assessment to be honest, although Lloris is definitely world class. Also agree with the Spurs fan who pointed out that Eriksen and Lamela could be in a few years

 

[Disconosebleed]

Most of that is pretty reasonable, certainly not worthy of raucous mocking.

-There isn't anyone that United should be particularly arsed about signing from us - maybe Vertonghen and one of our ball-winning central midfielders (Dembele or Sandro?) to complement Herrera's technical qualities, but our best players all play in positions they already have covered - Eriksen/Mata, Adebayor/Van Persie, Lloris/De Gea. It's completely understandable that a United fan would look at our squad and not be particularly excited about potential signings. Carrick and Berbatov were signings they desperately needed, we don't have anyone of the highest quality in the areas where they are weak (centre back and central midfield) - Vertonghen, Dembele and Sandro would all play regularly I'm sure, but this is Manchester United we're talking about and they have millions to spend; I would fully expect them to be looking at a higher calibre of player, Champions League or no Champions League.

-Dawson ahead of Vertonghen is baffling, but he's right that Vertonghen is no less prone to a brainfart than our captain.

-Mata is definitely one of the best number 10s in the world. Rodriguez looks a superstar but he's not done it in one of the top leagues yet, he's certainly better than any of the others mentioned barring Silva and I can't think of any other obvious candidates off the top of my head. Gotze is exceptionally talented but hasn't actually done it at the highest level consistently yet (I appreciate that sounds stupid when he's just scored the winner in the World Cup final, but he's yet to carve out a consistent role with Bayern or Germany, and is currently seen as 'something different' to try from the bench for club and country).

-With the exception of Lloris we don't have a world-class player IMO, at least not by my definition (it's such a vague, unspecific phrase that it's almost pointless discussing whether players are or aren't, because everyone's definition is different). Eriksen and Lamela could potentially be good enough to play for any team in the world, Lloris is the only one that already could.

-Our squad is pretty average. A more positive spin on it would be 'well-balanced' - we don't have a Bale or a Modric any more, players that would spark the interest of the world's best clubs, but nor do we have many squad players who are clearly not good enough.

 

[Chezaspur]

Ha so they think position for position none of our players are better than theirs.
And they last beat us.............hmm can't remember.
Obviously from their point of view teamwork and tactics don't come into it.

 

[Shadydan]

To be honest the way some of our fans go on about our own players on here those comments wouldn't look out of place on this site

 

[Dundalk_Spur]

This player by player comparison is a waste of time and effort. It is how the players operate as a team. The whole must be bigger than the sum of the parts.

This is where i hope Pochettino can be the trump card.

 

[StartingPrice]

Dembele has been playing at 60% for a while now, due to injuries or poor form but there is no doubt he has huge quality. I'm really hoping that Pochettino can bring out the best in him.

As for being underestimated, I absolutely love it too. We are flying way under the radar this season and many are expecting us to finish 7th without even being in the discussion of the CL places for the first time in many years. The expectations of our fans also seem to be lower and hopefully that will lead to games being played without the tense negative atmosphere that seemed to engulf WHL every time we weren't at 100%. Really looking forward to a fun season.

It is crayzee, isn't it! When we first bought Dembélé, after his form for Fulham and then his performances for us, United fans (and football at large) were claiming he was the signing United should have made. We all know he has been carrying a persistent injury. He has been shoe-horned into an incredibly negative set-up by AVB, and then what from Sherwood. And all of a sudden he is worse than a pile of doggie-doo. I won't claim e is going to be a World beater, I just don't know. But I would like to see what Poch can do with him before just writing him off. He has so many attributes. He formerly played up front, and can be almost unstoppable when carrying the ball forward - his problem being what he does with it when he gets forward - so playing for a much more offensive-minded coach may make him a revelation to all and sundry. That said, we don't know what the injury situation is, and if Poch decides he isn't part of his plans, fair enough (remember that piece of info about Poch wanting to look them in the eyes and see if they have the heart to play football the way he wants it played ).

As for the rest, I again agree 100% There seems to be a habit of making a negative connotation to every aspect that could act as a possible (and only possible) indicator as to how we may perform and then treating that as a fact, while doing exactly the opposite for our rivals. Last season I said folk shouldn't be dismissing Everton, and in much the same way, I would suggest that Citeh and Chelsea should probably have too much to be in anything other than contention for the top spot (but you never know), from them down, there are so many variables involved that I think the best we can say right now is that 3rd - 7th should be a battle-royale including the Goons, United, Liverpool, Us and Everton. I am listing them in that order deliberately as that is the weighting the odds would probably give. But any one of these teams could have a great, average, mediocre or dreadful season.

To take an example: the United fans, quoted above, and in reading the link, are arguing that LvG is a far more experienced manager than Poch, and this is true. So it is fair to factor in that in some mythical ChampMan points system he would score higher than Poch. But LvG has a history of either great success or complete implosion while Poch has the advantage of having successfully improved a team in the EPL.

IMHO, and that is all it is, our squad is being hugely underestimated. Happy for that to be the case...and hopefully our fans will stop demanding an Inter Milan level of performance every time our lot take the field

 

[alfie103]

Most of that is pretty reasonable, certainly not worthy of raucous mocking.

-There isn't anyone that United should be particularly arsed about signing from us - maybe Vertonghen and one of our ball-winning central midfielders (Dembele or Sandro?) to complement Herrera's technical qualities, but our best players all play in positions they already have covered - Eriksen/Mata, Adebayor/Van Persie, Lloris/De Gea. It's completely understandable that a United fan would look at our squad and not be particularly excited about potential signings. Carrick and Berbatov were signings they desperately needed, we don't have anyone of the highest quality in the areas where they are weak (centre back and central midfield) - Vertonghen, Dembele and Sandro would all play regularly I'm sure, but this is Manchester United we're talking about and they have millions to spend; I would fully expect them to be looking at a higher calibre of player, Champions League or no Champions League.

-Dawson ahead of Vertonghen is baffling, but he's right that Vertonghen is no less prone to a brainfart than our captain.

-Mata is definitely one of the best number 10s in the world. Rodriguez looks a superstar but he's not done it in one of the top leagues yet, he's certainly better than any of the others mentioned barring Silva and I can't think of any other obvious candidates off the top of my head. Gotze is exceptionally talented but hasn't actually done it at the highest level consistently yet (I appreciate that sounds stupid when he's just scored the winner in the World Cup final, but he's yet to carve out a consistent role with Bayern or Germany, and is currently seen as 'something different' to try from the bench for club and country).

-With the exception of Lloris we don't have a world-class player IMO, at least not by my definition (it's such a vague, unspecific phrase that it's almost pointless discussing whether players are or aren't, because everyone's definition is different). Eriksen and Lamela could potentially be good enough to play for any team in the world, Lloris is the only one that already could.

-Our squad is pretty average. A more positive spin on it would be 'well-balanced' - we don't have a Bale or a Modric any more, players that would spark the interest of the world's best clubs, but nor do we have many squad players who are clearly not good enough.

Whilst I do agree with most of what you have said, I can't agree with this. Mata couldn't get into chelsea's team and went for such an inflated fee due to, IMO, Moyes' need to sign a big time player to alleivate some of the pressure he was under at the time. He wasn't poor but he certainly didn't set the world alight during the second half of the season.

I would love to have him at Spurs though and he is a very talented player but i think there are other number 10's who are better IMO.

 

[yido_number1]

There's no doubting Mata, the problem is you need to play in the right formation to make him a success. Under Benitez he was out performing Hazard JM clearly fell out with him and thus moved him on ...

 

[Shadydan]

Mata couldn't get into Chelsea's team because Mourinho preferred a more defensive minded no10 and I wouldn't judge him under Moyes just like you wouldn't judge any of our players under Sherwood.

I'd still rate Mata above anyone in the world in his position tbh, can't think of anyone else who is indefinitely better than him, I'm just glad he isn't playing for the chavs, they don't deserve him lol

 

[tobi]

Objective and knowledgeable fans are hard to come by.

Most of those opinions are hilarious.

 

[mk_spur]

Seems to me the league is already won up the there!!!

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

Most of that is pretty reasonable, certainly not worthy of raucous mocking.

-There isn't anyone that United should be particularly arsed about signing from us - maybe Vertonghen and one of our ball-winning central midfielders (Dembele or Sandro?) to complement Herrera's technical qualities, but our best players all play in positions they already have covered - Eriksen/Mata, Adebayor/Van Persie, Lloris/De Gea. It's completely understandable that a United fan would look at our squad and not be particularly excited about potential signings. Carrick and Berbatov were signings they desperately needed, we don't have anyone of the highest quality in the areas where they are weak (centre back and central midfield) - Vertonghen, Dembele and Sandro would all play regularly I'm sure, but this is Manchester United we're talking about and they have millions to spend; I would fully expect them to be looking at a higher calibre of player, Champions League or no Champions League.

-Dawson ahead of Vertonghen is baffling, but he's right that Vertonghen is no less prone to a brainfart than our captain.

-Mata is definitely one of the best number 10s in the world. Rodriguez looks a superstar but he's not done it in one of the top leagues yet, he's certainly better than any of the others mentioned barring Silva and I can't think of any other obvious candidates off the top of my head. Gotze is exceptionally talented but hasn't actually done it at the highest level consistently yet (I appreciate that sounds stupid when he's just scored the winner in the World Cup final, but he's yet to carve out a consistent role with Bayern or Germany, and is currently seen as 'something different' to try from the bench for club and country).

-With the exception of Lloris we don't have a world-class player IMO, at least not by my definition (it's such a vague, unspecific phrase that it's almost pointless discussing whether players are or aren't, because everyone's definition is different). Eriksen and Lamela could potentially be good enough to play for any team in the world, Lloris is the only one that already could.

-Our squad is pretty average. A more positive spin on it would be 'well-balanced' - we don't have a Bale or a Modric any more, players that would spark the interest of the world's best clubs, but nor do we have many squad players who are clearly not good enough.

Mate read the thread itself. They mock the idea that Spurs will even be competing with them for similar finishing positions in the league next season. Apparently that is a laughable and insulting thought. We finished above them last year ffs. And no one can claim Sherwood is a better manager than Moyes.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Moyes isn't as bad as they like to make out, more like Fergie left him with dross in certain positions such as CB and CM. He couldn't sell Cleverly because their fans were hyping him up so much the year before. Of their last Prem winning side, apart from an on form Ferdinand and Vidic their other CB options are/were no better than ours.

I think they'll have a better season than the last but if they think they're going to walk the league they have another thing coming.

 

[StartingPrice]

↑
We're rivals for top 4. Which is what you'll be fighting for.
You will finish comfortably behind us and most probably out of the top 4 as well. One poor season and it's interesting to see Spurs and Scouse fans all giddy. Chelsea fans are ready to accept that United will be a force this season but fans of two teams who have finished below us almost everytime in the PL era are crowing about how they are as good/better than us. All because Moyes screwed us over last season.

This is my favourite - it illustrates the double standards being applied.

We may finish comfortably behind them. There again, LvG may be a total shit-storm, whereas our hugely underestimated (IMHO) squad may take to Poch and his ways like fish to water. It's an unknown.

One poor season...Spurs and Liverpool fans all giddy: Well, er, yeah, but we had a poor season last season, as well, or didn't anyone notice. We were, effectively, bedding in a whole new team, and switched mid-season from a head coach who seemingly outlawed forward momentum to one who outlawed even the rudiments of dressing-room cohesion (and still finished on 69 points and comfortably above United).

Rather perversely, I agree about Liverpool - they finished above us for the first season in five, they are the fifth best financed club in the EPL, almost all the factors allowing them to flourish last season have now disappeared, and they have made a load of potentially great/potentially not so great signings, yet their own and most other fans are just lazily assuming that is them nailed on for the top four now for an eternity. The funniest thing I have seen recently was a quote from Brendan Rodgers about using last season's failure to their benefit this season - er, Brentan, last year was a total beyond expectations punching-way-way-above-your-weight success. Last season:

Chelsea fans are ready to accept United as a force this season! Wow...allow me to jettison my reasoning faculties with undue haste I don't believe that how a team performs on the pitch is in any way, shape or form determined by the estimation opposition fans have of them, actually. And I don't know that United will have a poor season. Just recognising that there is potential for them to have a great season or a not so great one. I don't like making such caste-iron predictions - unlike the United fans (and quite a few Spurs ones) who are stating emphatically that we cannot finish above sixth

So, us and Liverpool (imagine being lumped in with them...I feel dirty) are crowing about being better than United because we finished above them once in the EPL (top flight did begin before Sky, no matter what the propaganda says). Well, I have never said that, and I don't believe many Spurs fans have, either...most seem convinced that United will be an unstoppable steam-roller again, a steam-roller we have zero hope of finishing above. So, no. But, it seems somewhat ironic that most United fans are pencilling Liverpool in for a top five finish and writing us off, even though last season was the first in five that they have finished above us. Pot-Kettle! As stated elsewhere, what I personally believe is that there are a huge number of unknowns which mean I would say the Goons, United, Liverpool, Us and Everton are in a five way fight over 3rd to 7th. These unknowns could mostly work in our favour, or against, and the same applies to the others. And I believe that is about as definite as you will find any spurs fan being.

All because Moyes screwed United over last season! Really? Now I know this may belong in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I actually think it is more the opposite way around. Succeeding Beetroot Head was always going to be a poisoned chalice, so, to me, Moyes is looking more and more like a fall-guy (albeit a very handsomely rewarded one), and if the squad he inherited was so good, why he LvG being given triple figures of millions to overhaul it while reportedly preparing to dump half their squad? Moyes fault, or the United board/Bacon Face for allowing a sub-standard (by their recent levels) squad to be prepared for Whisky-Face's successor?

It's all double standards, all assuming that the lowest common denominator will apply to Spurs while the highest will apply to our rivals.

But, as said above, I am actually happy that we are being underestimated