When did you first become disillusioned with AVB?

[Caco]

I wouldn't have said 'the truth'. As @gavspur said, there's no reason AVB couldn't go on to be successful with his approach somewhere else. However if the title was 'when did the doubters first have doubts, it becomes quite an interesting thread.

Lots of mud slinging between haters, blind optimists, and the majority somewhere in the middle but leaning for or against. I think it's interesting to see what events or decisions involving AVB started to create doubts, and why.

Fair point, I never saw myself as a doubter so wanted to avoid that, but I guess if the glove fits.

 

[Chilli]

What pointless drivel.
I don't know about AVB but....I first realised the OP didn't have a clue, when I opened this thread.

I wonder what the op was doing when we beat utd at ot for the first time in god knows how long? I could go on but I fear it would be lost on this numpty.

 

[bigpalacios]

What pointless drivel.
I don't know about AVB but....I first realised the OP didn't have a clue, when I opened this thread.

I wonder what the op was doing when we beat utd at ot for the first time in god knows how long? I could go on but I fear it would be lost on this numpty.

OP=Ooohh, AVBs mum is so fat that she ate his copy of Championship Manager

 

[mattyspurs]

When the crow bones hit the tiled floor the way they did - the exact same night i spotted a hawk fly in three circles under a crescent moon.

Bad omens, man.

No, thats just bad acid dude

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Some may not agree with me but I reckon AVB was found out a long time ago.

For me it was the 1/4 final against Basle last season when I first got to thinking that he genuinely hadn't got a clue. We were left chasing shadows by a well drilled but very ordinary Swiss team. Like most I was hopeful and exited for this season with all the new faces but I always had a lingering feeling that he would be found out badly again.

Not nice to see him lose his job, but it was best for all involved.

Would that be Basle the team who beat Chelsea away in the CL this season ?

 

[Kingstheman]

Some may not agree with me but I reckon AVB was found out a long time ago.

For me it was the 1/4 final against Basle last season when I first got to thinking that he genuinely hadn't got a clue. We were left chasing shadows by a well drilled but very ordinary Swiss team. Like most I was hopeful and exited for this season with all the new faces but I always had a lingering feeling that he would be found out badly again.

Not nice to see him lose his job, but it was best for all involved.

The truth?

You can't handle the truth!

 

[Caco]

Would that be Basle the team who beat Chelsea away in the CL this season ?

That would be the same Basle team that Chelsea beat home and away in the semi-finals last year!

 

[hodsgod]

Some may not agree with me but I reckon AVB was found out a long time ago.

For me it was the 1/4 final against Basle last season when I first got to thinking that he genuinely hadn't got a clue. We were left chasing shadows by a well drilled but very ordinary Swiss team. Like most I was hopeful and exited for this season with all the new faces but I always had a lingering feeling that he would be found out badly again.

Not nice to see him lose his job, but it was best for all involved.

I never wanted him at all, but one of the worse things I ever saw was when we were leading 3-0 in the Europa league. He calls Bale and Lennon over to check they are ok, then they both got injured and we missed them for league games. He is supposed to manage, and Fergie would have protected them.

My memory could be playing tricks of course

 

[Donki]

I'm not sure I know the truth now. Dead against a mid season sacking. We'll never know now

We will know after tomorrow nights game, how a group of players culd play so far below what is normal for them to do is quite simply shocking. With the players we had on the pitch we should never be getting beat 0-6 and 5-0 and results aside the actual style of football was horrific. I really dont think some of the people watched the games, at home on Sunday was a disgusting performance probably one of the worst I can remember seeing.... it was close to Gross's 1-6 to the Chavs, not one attempt on goal.

Anyone who seen my posts all said its gelling time, its gelling time give AVB time, unfortunately instead of seeing small glimers of hope the results were getting worse and worse the players simply didnt seem to know what they were supposed to be doing. AVB stood on Sunday like a man who was slowly dying, he was shouting and pointing but he might as well of had a wank for all good it did.

I wanted AVB to succeed but it was the right time, the rot was in. Hes a nice guy I like him but he wasn't the manager to take us forward IMO.

 

[ecce_tottenham]

Please change the title of this thread to "When did you make up your mind about AVB" and try to understand why serving opinion as fact is complete idiocy.

 

[Caco]

Please change the title of this thread to "When did you make up your mind about AVB" and try to understand why serving opinion as fact is complete idiocy.

Who is serving opinion as fact? Nothing has been stated as fact, I gave my opinion in the original post. My opinion is my own and I stand by that. If you don't agree with it that's fine, just click the disagree button or say why you disagree. Don't resort to personal attacks!

 

[Bobbins]

When I went to the West Ham game at the cost of £140 for two tickets and saw the worst Tottenham performance since the dark days of Graham.

A bit harsh, perhaps, but I'd not seen us that bad for a good decade. I think we were actually worse that day than we were under Ramos.

I found it hard to believe how it was possible for that group of players to play to such a low standard.

Over time his increasingly odd starting selections (the no Lamela vs Newcastle thing obviously) and even worse subs, along with the awful football had my doubts up by the 15 games this season point.

Funnily enough after our improvement against Everton, then again against Fulham and particularly Sunderland, had my hopes up that he might have turned it around and realised his system didn't work.

Liverpool put paid to that theory. Turns out that Fulham and Sunderland are just properly shit.

 

[mattdefoe]

the second half against chelsea this season. Completely outplayed and we looked like strangers after such a good 1st half.

 

[ecce_tottenham]

Who is serving opinion as fact? Nothing has been stated as fact, I gave my opinion in the original post. My opinion is my own and I stand by that. If you don't agree with it that's fine, just click the disagree button or say why you disagree. Don't resort to personal attacks!

Did I mention that I think you're really good looking? Just to balance out the personal attack.

Thanks for changing the thread title - far more balanced.

 

[dontcallme]

There have certainly been signs. The idea of BAE being a real problem player didn't ring true. Laid-back and unfocused maybe but as a manager you need to be adaptable and manage characters that are at odds with your ideas.

Football is full of big egos and agents whispering in the players' ears. If SAF didn't know how to manage big, sometimes difficult characters he wouldn't have had Keane and Cantona.

But I don't think I truly became disillusioned with AVB until losing to Liverpool on Sunday. He looked cluesless and didn't know what subs to make, the players look downbeat and 3 massive losses in 1st third of a season suggested weak character in the squad.

I supported his decisions hoping he'd make the right calls but I don't think he made enough right ones.

 

[dvdhopeful]

When I went to the West Ham game at the cost of £140 for two tickets and saw the worst Tottenham performance since the dark days of Graham.

A bit harsh, perhaps, but I'd not seen us that bad for a good decade. I think we were actually worse that day than we were under Ramos.

I found it hard to believe how it was possible for that group of players to play to such a low standard.

Over time his increasingly odd starting selections (the no Lamela vs Newcastle thing obviously) and even worse subs, along with the awful football had my doubts up by the 15 games this season point.

Funnily enough after our improvement against Everton, then again against Fulham and particularly Sunderland, had my hopes up that he might have turned it around and realised his system didn't work.

Liverpool put paid to that theory. Turns out that Fulham and Sunderland are just properly shit.

I agree with most of this message Bob, but the last line kind of sums up why I think it's unfair that AVB is taking all the fall and once again the players are exempt. I'm not saying I think the sacking was premature, just that I think entirely blaming AVB, without any further thought, isn't right.

I've defended AVB all the way, but there have been niggles for quite some time and I'm not trying to pretend there weren't. The biggest concern for me was (As you mentioned) the decision not to start Lamela after his performance against Sheriff and then not to even bring him on in a home game in which we failed to score. Despite it being against a very poor European side, Lamela, against Sheriff, suddenly showed a performance you'd expect from someone who cost £30m. His confidence must have been through the roof and it seemed like a perfect chance to play him in the PL, but AVB reverted back to the comfort of the familiar. There have been other decisions which have left my scratching my head too.

However, the Newcastle game also highlights my biggest frustration with some Spurs fans who were so anti-AVB. Whilst I'm not including you Bob, your final comment just reminded me of it. I've just looked up the stats from the Newcastle game, which are as follows.

Spurs Vs Newcastle: 65% possession, 31 shots on target, 14 off target.

I'll add a couple of others too:

Fulham Vs Spurs: 60% possession, 18 Shots, 6 On target
Sunderland Vs Spurs: 53% possession, 22 Shots, 5 On target

The biggest criticism I heard was that we weren't attacking and didn't create enough chances and yet all the stats don't back this up. In all three of those games I can remember numerous chances, clear cut chances, not 25 yard pot shots, in which attacking players with scoring pedigree;- shot directly at the keeper, blasted it wide/high or lost the opportunity. The Newcastle game was the biggest example and whilst Krul had a good game, I don't recall to many full length stops, just a lot of attempts which didn't really test him a great deal. Fulham and Sunderland also had a number of situations where had players taken their opportunities, the games against 'shit' opposition, which we made hard work of, would have been a great deal easier.

I'm not saying AVB should have been given more time, although I wasn't shouting for his sacking, what I do think is that we need to bare in mind that at times the players really didn't do their jobs. There were many opportunities spurned and in my mind getting to those situations involves the manager and the setup of the side, but once a players gets through on goal and creates some space, it is surely down to that players to put the ball in the net. I've heard a great deal about us not creating chances but almost nothing about how Soldado, Defoe, Gylfi, Lennon, Townsend, Paulinho, have got into clear cut goal scoring opportunities and not done their job, at times not even hit the target. Had even just a couple of players taken those chances, AVB might have had more time.

This of course does not excuse/explain/apply to, the loses against City and especially the inexcusable lose to Liverpool, nor am I saying sacking AVB was wrong, but one thing which absolutely is wrong, is laying all blame at AVB's door, it is simply not true.

 

[bravo12]

I know he would be fired when this was released..

 

[Josiebyar]

Some may not agree with me but I reckon AVB was found out a long time ago.

For me it was the 1/4 final against Basle last season when I first got to thinking that he genuinely hadn't got a clue. We were left chasing shadows by a well drilled but very ordinary Swiss team. Like most I was hopeful and exited for this season with all the new faces but I always had a lingering feeling that he would be found out badly again.

Not nice to see him lose his job, but it was best for all involved.

ask me instead when I first became disillusioned with Levy

 

[Caco]

ask me instead when I first became disillusioned with Levy

You just nailed it I think!

 

[Barry Mead]

I never felt he was the right appointment at the time and can't say over the time he was with us he ever did anything to convince me to change that opinion. He did seem a combination of inexperience, but sadly mixed with strong opinions on the back of the success he had in some of that time in a different league and with different players. I think if he ever gains success in the longer term it will be after more failure and finally accepting that what works in one league with one lot of players doesn't necessarily work in a different league with a different set of players