Where are the tricks promised by Ricardo?

[Bulletspur]

Without doubt the worst post of your career. There is no such thing as natural footballing ability. It is all developed from an early age + a combination of other things...

And without having to resort to making your quote in bold and large font I beg to differ.

You are born with the skill and and natural footballing ability. It may not be evident but if its not there, no amount of coaching is going to make you a skillful footballer. Yes, you may be coached how to get the basics right, yes you can be coached how to trap and control a ball, yes you may be coached how to kick a ball, yes you may be coached about positioning, tackling etc. But went it comes to natural ability and skill, which is most of the time instinctive, you cant be taught, even if you are prepared to spend 24/7 on a pitch trying.

But in replying to your post, it just dawned on me, what do you constitute as being skillful? Because we could be at cross purposes here.

 

[AngerManagement]

And without having to resort to making your quote in bold and large font I beg to differ.

You are born with the skill and and natural footballing ability. It may not be evident but if its not there, no amount of coaching is going to make you a skillful footballer. Yes, you may be coached how to get the basics right, yes you can be coached how to trap and control a ball, yes you may be coached how to kick a ball, yes you may be coached about positioning, tackling etc. But went it comes to natural ability and skill, which is most of the time instinctive, you cant be taught, even if you are prepared to spend 24/7 on a pitch trying.

But in replying to your post, it just dawned on me, what do you constitute as being skillful? Because we could be at cross purposes here.

No doubt differnt people have variying levels of potential, i.e. some people simply can become better and more skillful players then others given the same amount of pratice because they are just more naturally talented/blessed.

But skills are learnt and developed. The best players in the world my have been blessed with natural talent but ultimatley their skills were harnessed and evolved through hours of hard work, dedication and practise (just like any other sportsman at the top of their game)

 

[Locotoro]

Without doubt the worst post of your career. There is no such thing as natural footballing ability. It is all developed from an early age + a combination of other things...

:clap:
I wouldnt have been so dramatic but I agree wholeheartedly

 

[paul_1979yid]

When Mr Levy brought in Frank as technical director, he went back to Holland to pick up Ricardo Moniz, this man was famed for his skills teaching and apparently he had 50 ways to get passed a player, it was designed by some other dutch coach whose name escapes me. Ricardo has been at the club now for three years, yet I haven't seen any visual improvement by any of the players, Keane is still Keane (funnily enough he has cut out a lot of his flicks this season), Berbatov was skillful before he came here.

What about Lennon, who incidentally has been here almost the same time as the coach, as many people have noticed Lennon seems to run past people even less now and his form has declined instead of improved. Is Ricardo to blame? What input has he given the players?

I have to admit that I don't know much about our reserves as I live in Spain, I've seen highlights from the Spurs website but not one player has caught my eye, apart from taarabt but he was already skillful before he came. So, what does this man actually do?

Does anybody have a clue?

Well said! :clap:

 

[Bulletspur]

No doubt differnt people have variying levels of potential, i.e. some people simply can become better and more skillful players then others given the same amount of pratice because they are just more naturally talented/blessed.

But skills are learnt and developed. The best players in the world my have been blessed with natural talent but ultimatley their skills were harnessed and evolved through hours of hard work, dedication and practise (just like any other sportsman at the top of their game)

I believe this is what I am trying to get across. The natural talent has to be there first although not necesarily be evident. Without being blessed with the natural talent and ability etc, hours of dedication and practice and you will still be just another everyday good and effective footballer in your respective league.

To put it another way, no amount of practice, dedication and coaching will turn Bent into Berbatov or make O'hara as skillful as Taarabt.

 

[AngerManagement]

I believe this is what I am trying to get across. The natural talent has to be there first although not necesarily be evident. Without being blessed with the natural talent and ability etc, hours of dedication and practice and you will still be just another everyday good and effective footballer in your respective league.

To put it another way, no amount of practice, dedication and coaching will turn Bent into Berbatov or make O'hara as skillful as Taarabt.

YEs, but it is not as simple as that. Arguably the natural potential has to be there in order to attain the heights of such skills etc, however these players did not get to where they are purley on natural ability.

So I would suggest it is a combination of the two, hard work/dedication and a certain 'god given' ability.

The natural ability my give you a higer potential, in as far as you are able to reach a higher level of play then the next man however you would still need to work tirelessly to reach that level.

Also while players of lesser natural ability may never be able to become as skillful/good as the elite players, they can still improve their own skill level and coaches such as Moniz can help them reach their own personal potentials. i.e. be the best they can be.

 

[nicdic]

I think Moniz's work was best seen in Carrick, his slight of feet etc. But as has been said already, will be down to youngsters coming through to really see the best of him.

 

[Defsta]

Definitely it will be seen with youngsters, not older players.

 

[walworthyid]

Without doubt the worst post of your career. There is no such thing as natural footballing ability. It is all developed from an early age + a combination of other things...

That is just plain wrong I am afraid.

You can teach people th skills but not how and when to do them.

I know loads of players who can do skills but are not at all skillful because they just do not how to make them work when they are actually playing against real players in a real match!

 

[thejames]

Definitely it will be seen with youngsters, not older players.

Our academy is practically unbeatable at the moment, and lots of our U18s are regularly playing well above their level in the reserves.

A combination of Comolli's pickings, and Moniz's guidance along with the coaching by whatshisname (I forget the academy geezer's name...) seems to be paying off. Add into that Ramos' clever overseeing eye and tactical nous and Gus's motivational skill and the future's very bright indeed.

Players like Rose have started to train regularly with the first team squad too.

The next two to three seasons should see many more home-grown talents; though a few new wise heads this summer (ala Woodgate) would pay dividends for the whole club, let alone the first team.

 

[General Levy]

If that was true, then someone like Solskjær would have been ten times the player Ronaldo is. And, well, he ain't.

Ronaldo had better coaching as a youngster and more desire to improve.

Beckham was obviously born to take free kicks? The facts are that he practice and practice until he mastered it.

 

[General Levy]

That is just plain wrong I am afraid.

You can teach people th skills but not how and when to do them.

I know loads of players who can do skills but are not at all skillful because they just do not how to make them work when they are actually playing against real players in a real match!

How can a footballer have natural footballing abilities? It is about good practice and developing the player attributes from an early age.

 

[Stoof]

It may not be evident but if its not there, no amount of coaching is going to make you a skillful footballer.

I can safely say I'm your Exhibit A, here Bulletspur. :lol:

 

[Stoof]

How can a footballer have natural footballing abilities? It is about good practice and developing the player attributes from an early age.

Things like foot-eye co-ordination and being able to manipulate your foot in such a way as to alter the way you strike a ball, different levels of muscle control.

Some people can wink, some can cross their eyes etc. The fundamentals behind what makes a footballer a footballer are all linked to genetics and the fact that we're not all born the same.

Pete Sampras, probably the most gifted tennis player [aside form Borg and Fed] didn't start playing until he was 13 and just picked up a racquet and got involved. Most start aged 3 or 4 and train ridiculously hard. None of them got to Sampras' level.

Being a professional sportsperson requires coaching and natural ability - how you can say otherwise is just completely wrong.

 

[General Levy]

Things like foot-eye co-ordination and being able to manipulate your foot in such a way as to alter the way you strike a ball, different levels of muscle control.

Some people can wink, some can cross their eyes etc. The fundamentals behind what makes a footballer a footballer are all linked to genetics and the fact that we're not all born the same.

Pete Sampras, probably the most gifted tennis player [aside form Borg and Fed] didn't start playing until he was 13 and just picked up a racquet and got involved. Most start aged 3 or 4 and train ridiculously hard. None of them got to Sampras' level.

Being a professional sportsperson requires coaching and natural ability - how you can say otherwise is just completely wrong.

Comparing tennis to football for this instance is completely wrong.

As for your Sampras example:

Pete Sampras was born in Washington, D.C., and is the third son of Sammy and Georgia Sampras. His mother is a Greek immigrant,[4] and his paternal grandfather is of Greek ancestry while his paternal grandmother is Jewish.[5] Greek culture played a big role in his upbringing, and Sampras attended Greek orthodox church on Sundays.[6]
From an early age, Sampras showed signs of outstanding athletic ability. The young Sampras discovered a tennis racquet in the basement of his home and spent hours hitting balls against the wall. In 1978, the Sampras family moved to Palos Verdes, California, and the warmer climate there allowed seven-year-old Pete to play more tennis. From early on, his great idol was Rod Laver, and at 11 Sampras met and played with his idol.[7] The Sampras family joined the Peninsula Racquet Club, and it was here that Sampras's talent became apparent. He was spotted by Peter Fischer, a pediatrician and tennis enthusiast, who coached Sampras until 1989.[8][7] Fischer was responsible for converting Sampras's two-handed backhand to one-handed intending to increase Sampras' chances of winning Wimbledon.[9]

You will have to believe me that I am right about this. I have never met Ronaldo in my life, but I can guarantee you that the minute he liked playing with a ball, he practice and practice every day for 5-9 hours. And then he would have been spotted and coached. He would've then tried to implement his skills during coaching sessions and training matches so that could be used in the real environment.

 

[tooey]

I think that it all depends on the person. Some people can pick up a football and just have "raw talent" where they have all the right attributes to be a good footballer i.e co-ordination, awareness, pace, accelaration and a general good structure and level of fitness. There are also others who arn't born with it and do have to practice for hours but it doesnt make them anyless good than players who maybe dont have to train as hard. Look at George best, he assed about and basically raped his body, yet put him on a football pitch and he could still be a world beater. Now look at Henry, A model professional, i suspect he doesnt drink alcohol, is on a strict diet and trains till his balls drop off. Both great players but both different. Now one thing you cant teach is a footballing brain, look at your zidanes, scholes, sheringhams, cantonas. All have that intelligence not only on the ball but off it as well and i no amount of step overs and drag-backs will teach you that.

 

[Stoof]

You will have to believe me that I am right about this. I have never met Ronaldo in my life, but I can guarantee you that the minute he liked playing with a ball, he practice and practice every day for 5-9 hours. And then he would have been spotted and coached. He would've then tried to implement his skills during coaching sessions and training matches so that could be used in the real environment.

You can't teach people hand-eye and foot-eye co-ordination. You can't. I've spent my teenagehood trying to teach kids how to catch tennis balls and some are obviously better than others. I've worked tirelessly with some of these kids with little improvement - and it's not even from a wanting of doing it.

The Sampras stuff I was told as I was being coached - in the pre-Wiki days, so you'll have to forgive my inaccuracy. However, he did start a lot later than kids generally do.

Tennis and football are both sports which require co-ordination, skill and muscle memory. Some are more predisposed to having such things than others! That's basic biology!

Are you trying to dismiss genetics as incorrect? I'm not taking your word for this at all, because you're not right whatsoever. Because if you extrapolate what your saying, anyone that practices something a lot will be able to be the best at it? That's wrong. You need something there to start with. Like with everything in life.

 

[Defsta]

How can a footballer have natural footballing abilities? It is about good practice and developing the player attributes from an early age.

Based on that even the most stupid people on whole planet can become a fucking Einstein.

 

[pezinhoTHFC]

He's still at Spurs and tho works with the First Team works with the reserves and much younger age groups to develop them.

All according to Wikipedia anyway............

 

[General Levy]

You can't teach people hand-eye and foot-eye co-ordination. You can't. I've spent my teenagehood trying to teach kids how to catch tennis balls and some are obviously better than others. I've worked tirelessly with some of these kids with little improvement - and it's not even from a wanting of doing it.

The Sampras stuff I was told as I was being coached - in the pre-Wiki days, so you'll have to forgive my inaccuracy. However, he did start a lot later than kids generally do.

Tennis and football are both sports which require co-ordination, skill and muscle memory. Some are more predisposed to having such things than others! That's basic biology!

Are you trying to dismiss genetics as incorrect? I'm not taking your word for this at all, because you're not right whatsoever. Because if you extrapolate what your saying, anyone that practices something a lot will be able to be the best at it? That's wrong. You need something there to start with. Like with everything in life.

Tennis and football are two completely different sports and the practices of both are completely different. Just because you have coached tennis, doesn't make you an expert in coaching football. I have played at the highest level (youth wise) against most EPL stars in my age group who were playing for teams in the London area. Since I wasn't good enough I have become a FA qualified coach (level 2) and I will be talking my level 3 soon.

So, like I said, I do know what I am talking about; and I do know what it takes to get to the top. As I know and seen it from first hand experience.