Where did it all go wrong....?

[hellava_tough]

Haven't read the whole post, so kick me in the balls if someone's already mentioned this, but.....


....it all went wrong because we have never been able to hold on to any of our superstars. We've always had at least a couple of good players playing for us, but never at the same time.

Oh, and having our Captain (and legend) injured all the time doesn't help.

Anyway, if we were able to keep all the good players at the same time, our most recent team would look something like this:


-------------Gomes-----------

Corluka King Woodgate Bale/BAE

Lennon Carrick Modric Malbranque

-----------Berbs Keane------------



That's not a bad team.


Perhaps we should aim for mid-table for 10 years, while saving money, then in 2019 slap down £200 million on a new first 11 :grin:

Anyway, enough of this! I'm going to Camden.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Haven't read the whole post, so kick me in the balls if someone's already mentioned this, but.....


....it all went wrong because we have never been able to hold on to any of our superstars. We've always had at least a couple of good players playing for us, but never at the same time.

Oh, and having our Captain (and legend) injured all the time doesn't help.

Anyway, if we were able to keep all the good players at the same time, our most recent team would look something like this:


-------------Gomes-----------

Corluka King Woodgate Bale/BAE

Lennon Carrick Modric Malbranque

-----------Berbs Keane------------



That's not a bad team.


Perhaps we should aim for mid-table for 10 years, while saving money, then in 2019 slap down £200 million on a new first 11 :grin:

Anyway, enough of this! I'm going to Camden.

NOT TRUE

We are no smaller a club than any in this country bar Man U & Liverpool. Our best players want to leave because

• They see are lack of ambition
• They are allowed/touted to leave If it is deemed good business
• See no future or direction
• No chance of silverware or challenging

That why Hleb left and Fabregas will leave in the Summer. Scum are in danger of losing the plot and becoming like there North london neighbours!

 

[eddiev14]

It all went wrong when the board decided to back Damien Comolli, not Martin Jol.

We spent 50-odd million that summer, and we didn't strenghten the areas we needed to strengthen in the first team. We spent around 30 million on reserves.

We followed that by selling our two best strikers, and again not strengthening in key areas.

 

[DC_Boy]

according to the 'official version' Carrick wanted to leave - how do we know that Jol didn't go along with getting about 16m (so far) for an unsettled player that apparently was sulking/moping etc - according to some versions

for sure it's pretty clear JR wanted Berbs out

I don't automatically blame Levy for either sale

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and can only speculate - only perhaps robofan on here can give us a factual insight and event then it's only one perspective - a valued one but only one

anyone who's worked for a while knows how one person's version of a staff sacking for example can vary to another

only carrick levy and jol probably know the truth and even then their stories will be clouded by personal bias

 

[Banjo]

NOT TRUE

We are no smaller a club than any in this country bar Man U & Liverpool. Our best players want to leave because

• They see are lack of ambition
• They are allowed/touted to leave If it is deemed good business
• See no future or direction
• No chance of silverware or challenging

That why Hleb left and Fabregas will leave in the Summer. Scum are in danger of losing the plot and becoming like there North london neighbours!

Word!

Some people see Berby, Keane etc: going as inevitable because of the glory and gravity of L'pool and Man U. But I think there are 'push' factors, the ongoing lack of success at Spurs - predates Levy but he's been the boss for 8 years now; and under him our lack of clear direction, change to DoF, change from DoF, during that time, three DoF, and SEVEN managers/acting managers.

No wonder we are no further on. We will not progress until Levy and ENIC go.

The only reason for wanting them to stay, frankly, is who knows who, or what, the fuck might replace them. But not much of a recommendation for the current regieme is it!

:shrug:

 

[hellava_tough]

NOT TRUE

We are no smaller a club than any in this country bar Man U & Liverpool. Our best players want to leave because

• They see are lack of ambition
• They are allowed/touted to leave If it is deemed good business
• See no future or direction
• No chance of silverware or challenging

That why Hleb left and Fabregas will leave in the Summer. Scum are in danger of losing the plot and becoming like there North london neighbours!

What do you mean "not true"?

I haven't said that we're a small club.

And then you go and agree with me by stating that our 'big' players want to leave.

I never gave a reason why our players leave; just the fact that our players do, indeed, leave.

Come on SLY, read what I've written!

 

[Chatterbox1169]

It all went wrong when Keith Burkinshaw left after we won the UEFA cup when it was worth winning, he got outside the West Stand (the start of corperate atmosphere killing stands in this country.) and said "there used to be a football club back there."

He was correct. We started this mega money industry of top flight football and then got a chairman in Alan Sugar who milked the club and football to promote sat tv, so he could sell those boxes we now all have.

The whole state of premiership football and the cost of it is our fault. But I love it. You can divorce a husband or wife but you cannot seperate from your team, nor can you cheat on it. This is profound stuff here you know. So as to the question where did it all go wrong, the answer is that its not wrong its TOTTENHAM and we love them. Must stop drinking now.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Theirs two scenarios in which it went wrong.

a.) BMJ was massively undermined at the start of the 07/08 season when Levy and Commoli went behind his back chasing Juande Ramos so he could take us to the 'next level' (top 4) even though BMJ came agonisingly close in his first full season in charge. This led to the poor results which inevitably led to his disgraceful & sad departure.

b.) The signing of £16 million pound Darren Bent, forced BMJ's hand to play a striker (mostly because of the 'you cant have a 16 mill striker on the bench' situation) when Berbatov and Keane were in perfectly fine form and playing very well together. This led to him playing starting 11's and formations he probably didnt want to - leading to a string of results that againt inevitably got him sacked. All whilst Defoe sat and watched from the bench.

Most likely, its a combination of both, with the fact that Commoli was the instigator in bringing Darren Bent to the lane for £16 million. As well as the fact it was his decision to take the risk in bringing Ramos to the lane at MJ's expense. For which he was later sacked after taking full responsibility for his arrival.

Thinking about it, you could blame a large chunk of it on Commoli.

I agree that Commoli must take his share of blame for the ridiculous purchase of Bent for 16m, when the money would have been far better spent elsewhere, and worse still he must take the blame for leaving us in the dire striker situation that is the biggest problem we have at the moment.

But the rest is just bollocks. It completely ignores the failings of Jol to assess and rectify our defensive frailties (for example, he saw our biggest weaknesses as our strengths - Dawson & Robinson).

Jol was given three years to put together a top 4 challenging back four and managed to make it a bottom 4 one. Ramos was dealt a bottom four championship strike force and given 8 games to make it work.

 

[paul_1979yid]

It all went wrong when Keith Burkinshaw left after we won the UEFA cup when it was worth winning, he got outside the West Stand (the start of corperate atmosphere killing stands in this country.) and said "there used to be a football club back there."

He was correct. We started this mega money industry of top flight football and then got a chairman in Alan Sugar who milked the club and football to promote sat tv, so he could sell those boxes we now all have.

The whole state of premiership football and the cost of it is our fault. But I love it. You can divorce a husband or wife but you cannot seperate from your team, nor can you cheat on it. This is profound stuff here you know. So as to the question where did it all go wrong, the answer is that its not wrong its TOTTENHAM and we love them. Must stop drinking now.

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

 

[garyhopkins]

What this thread appears to be proving is that it's gone wrong many times in the past. We just have to live with the dream of someone getting it right in the future. Unfortunately the game is big business now and people aren't given the time they require (let alone the players, in Juande's case). Too many people forget the simple fact that for every winner on a Saturday afternoon (as it used to be) there has to be a loser. It makes success very difficult in the 'best' league in the world. We won a trophy this year but that didn't turn out to be enough for a lot of people. As for right now; I'm still optimistic for this season. We won't be relegated and we have three Cup competitions to look forward to. It's not all bad! Come on you Spurs...

 

[roosh]

It's all hyperthectical, there is no way of knowing for sure wheter or not things would have gone any differntly had Jol not been undermined and then sacked.

For all we know things could still have gone tits up what with the want away strikers and signings brought in...who knows we may also have never won the CC.

The fact is we have spent money poorly in terms of building a team, other teams around us have improved and it is no longer so easy to be the best of the rest.

Also we have sold the 3 players that helped make us the best of the rest (Keane, BErbatov, Carrick)

Ok if Jol had never been sacked we could well have had a more settled team, atleast we would have had some continuity, but this is not something we can know (things may still have gone the same way or worse)

Bottom line is the past is the past and the milk is spilt, best to focus on what we can do to improve our situation now rather then moan about what has gone wrong.

not sure if you are agreeing with me there, but that is pretty much what I said.

as for the rest, of course its hypothetical but as is any projection of future events. that is why past performance is used as a key indicator of possible and probable future outcomes

 

[roosh]

I agree that Commoli must take his share of blame for the ridiculous purchase of Bent for 16m, when the money would have been far better spent elsewhere, and worse still he must take the blame for leaving us in the dire striker situation that is the biggest problem we have at the moment.

But the rest is just bollocks. It completely ignores the failings of Jol to assess and rectify our defensive frailties (for example, he saw our biggest weaknesses as our strengths - Dawson & Robinson).

Jol was given three years to put together a top 4 challenging back four and managed to make it a bottom 4 one. Ramos was dealt a bottom four championship strike force and given 8 games to make it work.

I could've sworn we finished 5th 2 years in a row and were one game away form qualifying for the champions league, before he was completely undermined and all his progress undone

 

[roosh]

What this thread appears to be proving is that it's gone wrong many times in the past. We just have to live with the dream of someone getting it right in the future. Unfortunately the game is big business now and people aren't given the time they require (let alone the players, in Juande's case). Too many people forget the simple fact that for every winner on a Saturday afternoon (as it used to be) there has to be a loser. It makes success very difficult in the 'best' league in the world. We won a trophy this year but that didn't turn out to be enough for a lot of people. As for right now; I'm still optimistic for this season. We won't be relegated and we have three Cup competitions to look forward to. It's not all bad! Come on you Spurs...

i wouldn't get too far ahead of myself if I were you. We're still along way away from being safe and we don't have the squad to compete as it stands, especially up front.

 

[garyhopkins]

"We won't get relegated" is my mantra tottenham_til_i_die, in a similar way to Fazza's AA obsession. I like to look on the positive side rather than drown in the glut of pessimism that envelopes this board on many occasions. We don't have a great side but we have a reasonably good one that had an awful start and a fair bit of bad luck. We are slowly on the up and if 'arry cannot keep us in the premiership from a position where, at the half way point we are above the zone (albeit on goal difference), then I'll eat my shoe. 'arry's bonus isn't going to go uncollected. It's not gonna be easy I know, but I will stay positive to the very end and I'm looking forward to our Cup games. Come on you Spurs!

 

[sunnydelight786]

I agree that Commoli must take his share of blame for the ridiculous purchase of Bent for 16m, when the money would have been far better spent elsewhere, and worse still he must take the blame for leaving us in the dire striker situation that is the biggest problem we have at the moment.

But the rest is just bollocks. It completely ignores the failings of Jol to assess and rectify our defensive frailties (for example, he saw our biggest weaknesses as our strengths - Dawson & Robinson).

Jol was given three years to put together a top 4 challenging back four and managed to make it a bottom 4 one. Ramos was dealt a bottom four championship strike force and given 8 games to make it work.

Agree with that. Maybe the bit about having a championship frontlne is being a bit harsh, but I get your point. Truth is we started, and still are playing with, ONE striker who knows the PL. Campbell was a success in the championship but has found the PL a huge step up. Pav was and still is a unknown quantity in the PL.

Truth is both managers got shafted in the transfer market by Commoli & Levy i.e. they both did'nt get the players they asked for/wanted. The DOF worked really well in our youth department and also at 1st team level to get us as UEFA contenders. To go further than that the manager should have had more of a say in the exact players he wanted/felt needed to bridge the gap between between Uefa and CL.... If the above would have happened maybe BMJ would still be our manager right now, failing that I'm convinced that Ramos would deffo be our manager right now and we would have been sitting pretty higher up in the league.....

 

[DC_Boy]

there is no conclusive proof that I know that BMJ/JR were shafted by Comolli, the line with JR was 'collective resposibility' as for jol I know not but I have heard many many different stories about who wanted to buy/not buy x yz

None of us on here know what happened in any detail on our transfer policy over the past 5 years

someoe like robofan will know the most, but even he will probably only know 2nd/3rd hand

even the main protagonists will tell different stories about the same events

for any of us to decide that jol was shafted by commolli is a valid viewpoint/opinon but it is pure speculation based on guesswork

 

[General Levy]

NOT TRUE

We are no smaller a club than any in this country bar Man U & Liverpool. Our best players want to leave because

This just makes you sound silly.

Arsenal are easily a bigger club than us. This is a fact.

Then you have Chelsea. More succesful on and off the pitch, and they have a bigger stadium as well.

ALso, Newcastle, Villa Everton and Citeh - all of which their fans would argue if they were bigger than us or not.

This is 2008 mate, not 1982.

 

[striebs]

This just makes you sound silly.

Arsenal are easily a bigger club than us. This is a fact.

Then you have Chelsea. More succesful on and off the pitch, and they have a bigger stadium as well.

ALso, Newcastle, Villa Everton and Citeh - all of which their fans would argue if they were bigger than us or not.

This is 2008 mate, not 1982.

Newcastle , Villa and City are now a bit bigger than us but Everton are incredibly dependent on the consistency that Moyes epitomises .

The most dissapointing events in our decline :-
- Scholar's arrival making departure of Burkinshaw innevitable
- Arrival of ENIC
- Arneson leaving
- appointment of Commoli

Even small things like refereeing in Seville Tottenham match helped accelerate the decline .

 

[There's always next year]

We are the fucking laughing stock. We continually waste good money on shit players. It don't matter who is at the helm, it's been a consistant theme for the last 20 years.

 

[carpee]

"We won't get relegated" is my mantra tottenham_til_i_die, in a similar way to Fazza's AA obsession. I like to look on the positive side rather than drown in the glut of pessimism that envelopes this board on many occasions. We don't have a great side but we have a reasonably good one that had an awful start and a fair bit of bad luck. We are slowly on the up and if 'arry cannot keep us in the premiership from a position where, at the half way point we are above the zone (albeit on goal difference), then I'll eat my shoe. 'arry's bonus isn't going to go uncollected. It's not gonna be easy I know, but I will stay positive to the very end and I'm looking forward to our Cup games. Come on you Spurs!

I would be careful about offering to eat any items of clothing in response to certain things either happening or not happening i seem to recall someone still needing to eat their hat from this site.