Where have all the tackles gone...?

[Spurslove]

Referees are killing football.

They have virtually eliminated tackling from the game and it's only a question of time before they get rid of all forms of physical contact. Actually, they've already made a start on that one and are well into the programme...

Mind you, the players hardly do anything to help, throwing themselves down at the slightest hint of any contact. What drives me bonkers is when a player has the ball, and as soon as he's challenged in the slightest way, he just stops, turns around and looks at the ref with his arms out wide, demanding he get's a free kick, and the refs tend to fall for it. It's absolute bollocks.

And we really do need to address the anomaly of referees refusing to give penalties for things they wouldn't hesitate to give free kicks for, if they'd taken place outside the box.

So, the ultimate question has to be, why are there so many free kicks given these days (seemingly every 10-15 seconds) as opposed to many years ago? Who's responsibility is it to change or interpret the laws of the game differently?

 

[muppetman]

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/11/19/nab-champions-league-spot-tottenham-must-stay-foul-mood


and to quote:


The main reason for Tottenham’s defensive improvement comes as a result of a rather cynical (but also brilliant) stylistic shift: manager Mauricio Pochettino has subtly turned his Spurs side into masters of the tactical foul.

Tactical fouling refers to the practice of intentionally fouling the opposition, bucking conventional wisdom and treating the foul not as punishment for an accidental slip-up but rather as a carefully-considered strategy to increase defensive stability.

Teams that tactically foul can be identified via two main criteria: 1) a high volume of fouls and 2) a high percentage of fouls in a team’s own attacking half. Tottenham fits the bill in both categories, as the club has committed 12 more fouls than the next closest team in the league, and 36 more than the Premier League average, with a huge percentage coming in advanced areas. (Note: Tottenham committed the ninth-most fouls in the league last season).

The first major function of Tottenham’s tactical fouling is the limiting of dangerous counterattacks.




That's why we/everyone else fouls so much. Whether or not ref's should blow the whistle quite so frequently is presumably down to the FA.

 

[jurgen]

I did laugh yesterday when Mark 'Nobes' Noble tried to smash into Kane but was predictably a yard off the pace and Kane barely had to break strike to avoid the challenge, before taking a heavy touch and losing it, and it was then called back for a foul. It seemed very soft, but highly amusing to see the west ham players get wound up.

 

[Lufti]

Teams that tactically foul can be identified via two main criteria: 1) a high volume of fouls and 2) a high percentage of fouls in a team’s own attacking half. Tottenham fits the bill in both categories, as the club has committed 12 more fouls than the next closest team in the league, and 36 more than the Premier League average, with a huge percentage coming in advanced areas. (Note: Tottenham committed the ninth-most fouls in the league last season).

The first major function of Tottenham’s tactical fouling is the limiting of dangerous counterattacks.




That's why we/everyone else fouls so much. Whether or not ref's should blow the whistle quite so frequently is presumably down to the FA.

Well, clearly ours are a lot higher than anyone else in the other half, but surely a lot of those will be simply due to our aggressive pressing and trying to win the ball back asap / Lamela?

 

[Gbspurs]

I did laugh yesterday when Mark 'Nobes' Noble tried to smash into Kane but was predictably a yard off the pace and Kane barely had to break strike to avoid the challenge, before taking a heavy touch and losing it, and it was then called back for a foul. It seemed very soft, but highly amusing to see the west ham players get wound up.

I didn't think it was soft, the emphasis should be on the defender not to miss the ball, not on the attacker to avoid the challenge. If Noble hadnt ok if slid in then Kane probably wouldn't have taken a heavy touch.

 

[muppetman]

Well, clearly ours are a lot higher than anyone else in the other half, but surely a lot of those will be simply due to our aggressive pressing and trying to win the ball back asap / Lamela?

I think you can press aggressively without fouling. This I think, is more about deliberate fouling - something that the "big teams" have done for years but not something I would normally associate with us. I think it is part of a change of mentality at the club, a more professional approach.

 

[SlotBadger]

And we really do need to address the anomaly of referees refusing to give penalties for things they wouldn't hesitate to give free kicks for, if they'd taken place outside the box.

This gets to me more than anything. Playing tugging at shirts during corners/free-kicks, and defenders getting away with high feet in the box (Alli nearly lost his head when his effort hit the bar yesterday).

 

[Spurs 1961]

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/11/19/nab-champions-league-spot-tottenham-must-stay-foul-mood


and to quote:


The main reason for Tottenham’s defensive improvement comes as a result of a rather cynical (but also brilliant) stylistic shift: manager Mauricio Pochettino has subtly turned his Spurs side into masters of the tactical foul.

Tactical fouling refers to the practice of intentionally fouling the opposition, bucking conventional wisdom and treating the foul not as punishment for an accidental slip-up but rather as a carefully-considered strategy to increase defensive stability.

Teams that tactically foul can be identified via two main criteria: 1) a high volume of fouls and 2) a high percentage of fouls in a team’s own attacking half. Tottenham fits the bill in both categories, as the club has committed 12 more fouls than the next closest team in the league, and 36 more than the Premier League average, with a huge percentage coming in advanced areas. (Note: Tottenham committed the ninth-most fouls in the league last season).

The first major function of Tottenham’s tactical fouling is the limiting of dangerous counterattacks.




That's why we/everyone else fouls so much. Whether or not ref's should blow the whistle quite so frequently is presumably down to the FA.

Maybe it's just because we compete for every single ball for all 95 minutes or however long a match lasts

 

[mpickard2087]

I wouldn't say that those we commit are usually good 'tactical fouls'. They tend to be either a) as a result of us pressing high or b) quite needless ones in our third of the pitch. I cant recall too many sneaky fouls to break up a counter attack for instance.

 

[nightgoat]

I did laugh yesterday when Mark 'Nobes' Noble tried to smash into Kane but was predictably a yard off the pace and Kane barely had to break strike to avoid the challenge, before taking a heavy touch and losing it, and it was then called back for a foul. It seemed very soft, but highly amusing to see the west ham players get wound up.

Really don't know how he escaped a booking for that. He had no intention of going for the ball because there was no way he could have got the ball. Just a cynical attempt to hack down someone who had just made a mug of him.

 

[heelspurs]

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/11/19/nab-champions-league-spot-tottenham-must-stay-foul-mood


and to quote:


The main reason for Tottenham’s defensive improvement comes as a result of a rather cynical (but also brilliant) stylistic shift: manager Mauricio Pochettino has subtly turned his Spurs side into masters of the tactical foul.

Tactical fouling refers to the practice of intentionally fouling the opposition, bucking conventional wisdom and treating the foul not as punishment for an accidental slip-up but rather as a carefully-considered strategy to increase defensive stability.

Teams that tactically foul can be identified via two main criteria: 1) a high volume of fouls and 2) a high percentage of fouls in a team’s own attacking half. Tottenham fits the bill in both categories, as the club has committed 12 more fouls than the next closest team in the league, and 36 more than the Premier League average, with a huge percentage coming in advanced areas. (Note: Tottenham committed the ninth-most fouls in the league last season).

The first major function of Tottenham’s tactical fouling is the limiting of dangerous counterattacks.




That's why we/everyone else fouls so much. Whether or not ref's should blow the whistle quite so frequently is presumably down to the FA.

This is a naive, superficial, and inaccurate analysis of our play. Only on the very rare occasion have I noticed this type of foul; 2 of Dier's bookings, 1 by Lamella, and 1 by Eriksen in our defensive half where he compounded it by nudging the ball away to further slow play and ensure a booking. (As an aside, Eriksensensen should have had another as he should have take Yaya down dammit!) The writer is conflating tactical fouls with 'professional'/taking one for the team fouls which we don't commit as a matter of course. The vast majority of our fouls are the result of our pressing immediately after loss of possession. If a foul occurs so be it. It is a side effect/consequence of our harassing not an objective.

Thanks for posting this however. Now I know another American (im a yank so not a xeno statement) hipster footie journo to avoid. Thus far I know only grant wahl that is worth anything from that publication and that is mostly due to his 'access' not his footie knowledge. Nonetheless I'm happy to see Spurs in US media. Gives neutrals options instead of the dreaded 'big' clubs.

 

[Navin R Johnson]

IIRC one of Ramos' first changes was to have us fouling further up the pitch.

 

[Ironskullll]

Maybe it's just because we compete for every single ball for all 95 minutes or however long a match lasts

That article has been quoted a few times now and it's bullshit. It's an example of how statistics, especially incomplete statistics can be bent to will. I pointed out over a month ago that we are committing far more fouls than we used to.

I think equally, or more significant for me is reading the views of opposing fans after each of our games this season. Other than Stoke and possibly Man U from memory, my overriding memory is of the majority of opposing fans agreeing that their performance against Spurs was their "worst of the season", "crap", "couldn't keep the ball", "couldn't string too passes together", "couldn't get going", "we were so crap we made Spurs look good, they're not even that good".

It can't surely be luck or coincidence that so many teams have their worst game of the season against us. I think actually we press so aggressively that simply we are forcing a lot of errors.

One thing that really struck me is that for four games in a row now i've seen independent fans of different football clubs comment that "Spurs seemed to have two players for every one of ours" or "Spurs seemed to have an extra player or two on the pitch". I've also seen consistent comments of "being overrun".

It's a consistent style that is starting to emerge. Our aggression and work-rate are really coming through to even neutrals and opposing fans, not just to us that watch regularly.

I liked the whole article (ed - about a different artticle) but the part I highlighted struck a chord...

I dragged these stats off the BBC site, for fouls committed during PL matches this season:

A Spurs 12 Man Utd 12
H Spurs 15 Stoke 11
A Spurs 14 Leicester 7
H Spurs 20 Everton 9
A Spurs 12 Sunderland 11
H Spurs 9, C Palace 11
H Spurs 17 Man City 6
A Spurs 19 Swansea 8

And that's with us tending to dominate possession!

I've occasionally looked up the stats in previous seasons, and these figures represent an absolute sea change. In previous seasons (not sure of last year, don't recall looking) it was only ever against Arsenal where it would be even close - we were the softest of touches. Not that the object of the game is to commit fouls (obviously), any more than it is to run the most (obviously), but these fouls, running and possession stats are, IMHO hugely significant. The fouls stat speaks for itself insofar as it indicates a much more robust approach, one which we've wanted for years. But is also gives an insight into the possession statistic. Without knowing how long a period of possession lasts, it's hard to draw conclusions from possession stats. The foul stats suggest that we're working amazingly hard to win the ball back, and that it's working. Not so much necessarily of a high press, as a quick and aggressive press. I'd really like to see how long our periods of possession are in comparison to other teams and previous seasons. Are our high possession percentages the result of a few lengthy periods of possession or just a great number of shorter periods?

Regardless, I think that this is indicative of a new attitude permeating the entire team. It'll be interesting to see what the rest of the season holds and whether it sustains that impression. I hope it does!

I believe that the vast majority of these fouls are committed either during or within seconds of change of phase and are bona fide attempts to win the ball. They don't conform to the cynical "bring the player down", "take one for the team" type of foul that sees a promising breakaway stopped in midfield. It's like trying to draw conclusions from possession statistics without knowing how long the periods of possession have lasted (and hence how many of them there were) and how they ended. It's a dangerous thing to do without the full package of information. In the absence of that, you need the evidence of your own eyes and these bloggers and writers seldom have that.

By the way, we were outfouled recently 15-6 by Aston Villa during one of those 3 games in 6 days periods. I would say that that stat on its own suggests that there is an added dimension of canny game management entering our play. It's early days yet but if that's true then it's yet another factor that bodes well.

Here's the original article about Poch from Spain a few years back - courtesy of @Dharmabum http://www.footytube.com/news/guard...cio-pochettino-as-kids-show-their-worth-L5120

 

[Dundalk_Spur]

Yeah Walkers tackle on Reid where he kicked the ball off him and caught his shin pad on the way past, and you would have thought Reid was shot.

Mackay would have only played about 10 games a season these days.

 

[muppetman]

Not sure why so many have their knickers in a twist. To suggest that one our players deliberately draws a foul rather than let play develop doesn't suddenly mean we have turned into some super cynical awful side that kicks opponents up and down the pitch.

I'm not even saying that I agree with the post that I linked, I just thought it was interesting and worth a look.

 

[Ironskullll]

Not sure why so many have their knickers in a twist. To suggest that one our players deliberately draws a foul rather than let play develop doesn't suddenly mean we have turned into some super cynical awful side that kicks opponents up and down the pitch.

I'm not even saying that I agree with the post that I linked, I just thought it was interesting and worth a look.

It was definitely interesting and worth a look.

 

[heelspurs]

Not sure why so many have their knickers in a twist. To suggest that one our players deliberately draws a foul rather than let play develop doesn't suddenly mean we have turned into some super cynical awful side that kicks opponents up and down the pitch.

I'm not even saying that I agree with the post that I linked, I just thought it was interesting and worth a look.

I wasn't getting on you. Apologies if it seemed that way. Just felt that the complete 'analysis' of that post was inaccurate and therefore misleading. It kind of gives the impression that we're Pulis era Stoke just cynically slowing the game down and taking lumps outta people. Would hate for uninitiated readers to get that impression.

And my knickers remain untwisted dammit

 

[thinktank]

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/11/19/nab-champions-league-spot-tottenham-must-stay-foul-mood


and to quote:


The main reason for Tottenham’s defensive improvement comes as a result of a rather cynical (but also brilliant) stylistic shift: manager Mauricio Pochettino has subtly turned his Spurs side into masters of the tactical foul.

Tactical fouling refers to the practice of intentionally fouling the opposition, bucking conventional wisdom and treating the foul not as punishment for an accidental slip-up but rather as a carefully-considered strategy to increase defensive stability.

Teams that tactically foul can be identified via two main criteria: 1) a high volume of fouls and 2) a high percentage of fouls in a team’s own attacking half. Tottenham fits the bill in both categories, as the club has committed 12 more fouls than the next closest team in the league, and 36 more than the Premier League average, with a huge percentage coming in advanced areas. (Note: Tottenham committed the ninth-most fouls in the league last season).

The first major function of Tottenham’s tactical fouling is the limiting of dangerous counterattacks.




That's why we/everyone else fouls so much. Whether or not ref's should blow the whistle quite so frequently is presumably down to the FA.

Orrrrrrr Lamela.

 

[Flashspur]

Yeah Walkers tackle on Reid where he kicked the ball off him and caught his shin pad on the way past, and you would have thought Reid was shot.

Mackay would have only played about 10 games a season these days.

Having grown up in the 60's and 70's during the hey day of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris, Peter Storey and Tommy Smith, all c*nts by the way, I can tell you, seeing tackling reduce is not a bad thing.

 

[Ironskullll]

Having grown up in the 60's and 70's during the hey day of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris, Peter Storey and Tommy Smith, all c*nts by the way, I can tell you, seeing tackling reduce is not a bad thing.

None of them could play. Mackay could play. He'd be great in this era.