Where have all the tackles gone...?

[Shadydan]

No it's not a can of worms, it's clearly definable. Shirt tugging and holding are very deliberate and not in any way subject to doubt, red card full stop. Both those offences would cease immediately and the game much better for it.

I think a yellow for shirt pulling or holding onto a player is sufficient enough, soon football we be a non contact Sport if we go that route.

 

[slartibartfast]

I've been calling for us to do this since seeing a Man U midfield of Hargreaves and carrick do it so effectively against us a few years ago (the tevez last minute equaliser game). Without their obvious tactical fouling and stopping our attacks we'd of won that game comfortably. They just stopped us playing with little pulls and kicks.

Christ, take that away from Chelsea and they'd never have won anything.
It's what the big boys do. All of them.
I've also been waiting years for us to stop being so bloody polite on the pitch.

 

[spursfan77]

Christ, take that away from Chelsea and they'd never have won anything.
It's what the big boys do. All of them.
I've also been waiting years for us to stop being so bloody polite on the pitch.

I agree but I still don't want us to dive, cheat and disrespect the officials like the other teams (Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U).

 

[Shadydan]

I agree but I still don't want us to dive, cheat and disrespect the officials like the other teams (Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U).

There's a common denominator with teams who do that and win trophies.

 

[spursfan77]

There's a common denominator with teams who do that and win trophies.

Yeah but I can't have my team behaving that way I'm afraid.

Be hard and be fair but don't be snide fuckers like those teams. It's not for me.

 

[Hot Spur]

I think a yellow for shirt pulling or holding onto a player is sufficient enough, soon football we be a non contact Sport if we go that route.

So stopping cheating is making it a non contact sport is it? FFS

 

[Shadydan]

So stopping cheating is making it a non contact sport is it? FFS

Cheating goes on in all form of the game, from OTT fouls, diving, cynical fouls, shirt pulling, time wasting, throws and free kicks taken in advance positions etc...If they start sending player off for shirt pulling and holding then they're going to have to come down on all of the above then it will start to get stupid.

Also sending players off for shirt pulling won't stamp it out, it's a natural human reaction to hold your opponent back whether it's legally or illegally.

 

[Ironskullll]

Yeah but I can't have my team behaving that way I'm afraid.

Be hard and be fair but don't be snide fuckers like those teams. It's not for me.

I agree and it's why I take such exception to that article and its incorrect conclusions.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Referees are killing football.

They have virtually eliminated tackling from the game and it's only a question of time before they get rid of all forms of physical contact. Actually, they've already made a start on that one and are well into the programme...

Mind you, the players hardly do anything to help, throwing themselves down at the slightest hint of any contact. What drives me bonkers is when a player has the ball, and as soon as he's challenged in the slightest way, he just stops, turns around and looks at the ref with his arms out wide, demanding he get's a free kick, and the refs tend to fall for it. It's absolute bollocks.

And we really do need to address the anomaly of referees refusing to give penalties for things they wouldn't hesitate to give free kicks for, if they'd taken place outside the box.

So, the ultimate question has to be, why are there so many free kicks given these days (seemingly every 10-15 seconds) as opposed to many years ago? Who's responsibility is it to change or interpret the laws of the game differently?

Sorry, but that's rubbish. All referees do is penalise people that foul. The onus isn't on referees it's on players to either learn the art of tackling better or not fouling.

 

[Sevens]

If the modern day rules had existed in the 1980's we'd have won the league. Hoddle used to get lumps kicked out of him as it was pretty much the only way to stop him. In the modern game Hoddle would be unstoppable.

In fact I'd say with the pace of Archibald and Crooks up front, combined with Hoddle sitting deeper we'd wipe the floor in the modern era. Almost every team tries the press and any team doing that against Spurs of the early 80's would be like lambs to the slaughter...

 

[Hot Spur]

Cheating goes on in all form of the game, from OTT fouls, diving, cynical fouls, shirt pulling, time wasting, throws and free kicks taken in advance positions etc...If they start sending player off for shirt pulling and holding then they're going to have to come down on all of the above then it will start to get stupid.

Also sending players off for shirt pulling won't stamp it out, it's a natural human reaction to hold your opponent back whether it's legally or illegally.

Yes cheating has many forms but that doesn't make it ok. The difference between shirt tugging and holding compared with most other offences is that they are clearly definable and clearly deliberate. A player could never claim that he didn't do it, or that it was accidental and therefore punishment can be administered without fear of injustice.

No it isn't a "natural human reaction", I've been watching football since the early 1950's and It didn't happen in those days to anywhere near the extent it does today, if indeed it happened at all. There is also a phenomenon known as "conditioning", even if a player did tug a shirt "accidently" in the heat of the moment, it would only need him to be sent off a couple of times for his subconscious mind to become conditioned. Any "natural reaction" would be repelled by his subconscious.

 

[Ionman34]

Shirt tugging and holding are very easy to stop but the FA haven't the balls to do it. Instruct refs to give a red card for either of those offences and if it happens in the box an automatic penalty as well as e red card. it would all stop instantly.

The problem is not the FA but FIFA. The directive would need to be Worldwide, or British Football is hamstrung.

 

[Spurslove]

Sorry, but that's rubbish. All referees do is penalise people that foul. The onus isn't on referees it's on players to either learn the art of tackling better or not fouling.

It isn't rubbish at all. Refereeing decisions have changed out of all recognition over the last 20 years. Some of the free kicks given these days would never have been deemed a foul back then and I want to know who is telling the refs to change their perceptions as to what represents a foul and what doesn't. You can't tell me that a slight 'coming together' between two players would have resulted in a foul 20 years ago but more often than not, it is now.

 

[Shadydan]

Yes cheating has many forms but that doesn't make it ok. The difference between shirt tugging and holding compared with most other offences is that they are clearly definable and clearly deliberate. A player could never claim that he didn't do it, or that it was accidental and therefore punishment can be administered without fear of injustice.

No it isn't a "natural human reaction", I've been watching football since the early 1950's and It didn't happen in those days to anywhere near the extent it does today, if indeed it happened at all. There is also a phenomenon known as "conditioning", even if a player did tug a shirt "accidently" in the heat of the moment, it would only need him to be sent off a couple of times for his subconscious mind to become conditioned. Any "natural reaction" would be repelled by his subconscious.

The whole point of bringing up those various forms of cheating is that when you start to apply harsher laws on what your interpretation is on a "clearly deliberate" form of cheating then you're going to have to clamp down on other forms as well. Can you imagine refs sending players off for shirt pulling in the box after a bit of grappling and then not taking the same action on a tackle which is deemed OTT and reckless only to leave the player on the field, that's opening a whole new can of worms and is really doesn't make any sense.

Shirt pulling and holding goes on in just about every top flight match, every corner that gets swung in there is a player holding another player, referees even see this yet they are reluctant to give penalties just because it's become apart of the modern game, it's as simple as that. In fact it's not only defender who commit shirt pulling, attackers sneakily use it to their advantage as well to throw defenders off balance so where do you draw the line?

It's a natural human reaction to gain an extra yard in a competitive sport, that's the point.

 

[Hot Spur]

The whole point of bringing up those various forms of cheating is that when you start to apply harsher laws on what your interpretation is on a "clearly deliberate" form of cheating then you're going to have to clamp down on other forms as well. Can you imagine refs sending players off for shirt pulling in the box after a bit of grappling and then not taking the same action on a tackle which is deemed OTT and reckless only to leave the player on the field, that's opening a whole new can of worms and is really doesn't make any sense.

Shirt pulling and holding goes on in just about every top flight match, every corner that gets swung in there is a player holding another player, referees even see this yet they are reluctant to give penalties just because it's become apart of the modern game, it's as simple as that. In fact it's not only defender who commit shirt pulling, attackers sneakily use it to their advantage as well to throw defenders off balance so where do you draw the line?

It's a natural human reaction to gain an extra yard in a competitive sport, that's the point.

Since you obviously condone cheating I won't discuss it further.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Shirt pulling and holding goes on in just about every top flight match, every corner that gets swung in there is a player holding another player, referees even see this yet they are reluctant to give penalties just because it's become apart of the modern game, it's as simple as that. In fact it's not only defender who commit shirt pulling, attackers sneakily use it to their advantage as well to throw defenders off balance so where do you draw the line?

It's a natural human reaction to gain an extra yard in a competitive sport, that's the point.

Yes , it is a part of the modern game , but thats hardly an excuse . Quite right that forwards do it too . Those of us who remember footie back in the day know though that its all entirely unnecessary and is clearly blatant cheating . It has reached such a pitch now that checking an oppo players run with a shirt tug is almost the norm and its hardly revolutionary to suggest that refs should roll this non-football cheating back . They've allowed it to run riot imo .

The 'natural human reaction' comment ....What can you be thinking ?

 

[Shadydan]

Since you obviously condone cheating I won't discuss it further.

I condone common sense, not cheating

 

[Shadydan]

Yes , it is a part of the modern game , but thats hardly an excuse . Quite right that forwards do it too . Those of us who remember footie back in the day know though that its all entirely unnecessary and is clearly blatant cheating . It has reached such a pitch now that checking an oppo players run with a shirt tug is almost the norm and its hardly revolutionary to suggest that refs should roll this non-football cheating back . They've allowed it to run riot imo .

The 'natural human reaction' comment ....What can you be thinking ?

Not using it as an excuse.

Ultimately the point is that the dark arts or 'cheating' as you put it is creeping more and more into the game and if anyone thinks they can fully stamp it out the game by handing out red cards then they are deluding themselves.

 

[Hot Spur]

I condone common sense, not cheating

You defended cheating, "natural reaction"?? Humbug !!

 

[Shadydan]

You defended cheating, "natural reaction"?? Humbug !!

If that's what you want to take from my post despite explaining what I meant then its up to you, have fun.