Who would be an acceptable replacement for Berba?

[SpurSince57]

It was a great save, but made easier by the fact that Berba placed it within pretty comfortable reach. The 949 commentators weny crazy about it, but seeing it on the highlights it was clear that Berba had a good deal more time (okay, I know, tenths of a second) to place the ball well beyond Cudicini's reach than they made out. There have been several others over the past two seasons.

For reasons that elude me, I keep getting criticised for bringing strikers' conversion ratios into the equation; Berbatov's figures aren't the greatest.

Our best player? Yes. Flawless? No.

 

[DC_Boy]

It was a great save, but made easier by the fact that Berba placed it within pretty comfortable reach. The 949 commentators weny crazy about it, but seeing it on the highlights it was clear that Berba had a good deal more time (okay, I know, tenths of a second) to place the ball well beyond Cudicini's reach than they made out. There have been several others over the past two seasons.

For reasons that elude me, I keep getting criticised for bringing strikers' conversion ratios into the equation; Berbatov's figures aren't the greatest.

Our best player? Yes. Flawless? No.

well I have to disagree with you here 57 - I think you're being way too harsh on Berbs over that miss - I repeat he made the chance with a great bit of skill and then whether he had more time or not he shot (it was the dying minutes/seconds of a pulsating epic) and it was a great save to stop it

you'll have to enlighten me on the other gilt-edged massively important chances he's missed according to Bobbins and I'll compare them with ease to Keane Defoe and Bent - I've already pointed two out for starters

Actually I've just remembered one - v Arsenal - but of course Bent missed one in that game too - neither were as easy as Keane's or Defoe's penalty chances

of course Berbs isn't flawless but I'm glad you realise he's our best player, it seems to have escaped Bobbins

 

[Bobbins]

It wasn't a great bit of skill - Alex had decided the last minute was the right time to practise his flying lessons and simply threw himself right across Berbatov - cutting inside with one simple touch is the most natural thing in the world to do as a striker and just simply not a 'great bit of skill' DC. It was a poor shot, I've pointed out exactly why it was poor a couple of times before but you only have to watch it again to see why.

The interesting thing is that after the game almost everyone said it was a great save. Then as more and more people actually saw it (radio listeners, and people who needed to see it again I suspect), the more people came back and started to say that actually, it was a pretty poor attempt at a finish. Still a good save, but just a really poor scoop of the ball when a striker of his ability should be slotting it into the bottom corner - either one was open and unsaveable.

As I've said before - it was a good save, but one which Cudicini shouldn't have been allowed to make.

Yep Arsenal in the semi-final just before half time, a succession of chances in the PSV game which he decided to whack into row Z, one in the Carling Cup final which would've won us the game in normal time - do you need me to continue? We're not here to compare Berbatov to Keane, Defoe or anyone else DC. We're talking about the man himself.

It hasn't escaped me at all (he's not though, King is). Calling him 'fantastically talented' is hardly having a go at him is it? I've even pointed out that he's one half of the most creative and successful front two in the country - that's hardly being harsh is it, even when the stats suggest Keane is, in pure goals scored and created terms, the more effective of the two.

The point with Berbatov, which some (less and less it seems, read the match ratings threads for the last few weeks) people seem utterly blinkered to, is that he simply doesn't do enough when you consider his undeniable talent. In fact it's this which completely contradicts what you're saying - I know exactly how good Berbatov is, which is why it's increasingly annoying to seem him leave his talent in the dressing room and proceed to mope about the pitch, complaining at his fellow players and generally wasting his, and our, time.

 

[SpurSince57]

well I have to disagree with you here 57 - I think you're being way too harsh on Berbs over that miss - I repeat he made the chance with a great bit of skill and then whether he had more time or not he shot (it was the dying minutes/seconds of a pulsating epic) and it was a great save to stop it

you'll have to enlighten me on the other gilt-edged massively important chances he's missed according to Bobbins and I'll compare them with ease to Keane Defoe and Bent - I've already pointed two out for starters

Actually I've just remembered one - v Arsenal - but of course Bent missed one in that game too - neither were as easy as Keane's or Defoe's penalty chances

of course Berbs isn't flawless but I'm glad you realise he's our best player, it seems to have escaped Bobbins

Well, I always get shot at for bringing chance conversion into it, but Berbatov has not done particularly well in this respect—no better than Defoe last season, or Bent this, and rather worse than Keane. If you take GPM, he fares no better.

And, sorry, whether Berbatov made that chance with a great bit of skill or not is immaterial. The 949 team were raving about Cudicini's save, which led me to believe he'd done something truly extraordinary. On the spur of the moment, it was an understandable reaction. Nevertheless, the fact is that Berba had time to put the ball a yard or more either side of Cudicini, and didn't. It was a very good save, but one I'd have expected most EPL keepers to make, Robbo included.

He simply isn't a killer finisher. Sure, goals aren't the be-all and end-all, and Berbatov brings a whole lot more to the party. But let's not pretend that he is the complete striker, because he isn't.

 

[Cicinho]

J[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_Alves_de_Assis_Silva"]ô[/URL] at CSKA Moscow would be a good replacement, although i wouldn't think much of Keane alongside him, Bent would be better with him.

 

[Bulletspur]

A significant improvement in the quality of our midfield will see the need for a lot of Berbatov's work disappear.

At the moment, we need him in order to help us create chances, because our midfield is so limited in this area. They don't get enough goals either. With a better midfield (I'm thinking a new CM to play alongside one of Jenas or Huddlestone, and a new LM so poor old Steed can stop playing out of position) there will be far less reliance on the strikers to create their own chances.

We're a bit of a strange team, really. Berbatov and Keane are the most creative and successful front two in the entire league, but only because they have to be. Most teams create chances that they give to the strikers to put away - our strikers have to create most of their own chances themselves.

Look at Bent against Pompey last week - one decent ball from midfield and bang - one goal. Against West Ham, one decent cross from the right - bang - one great diving header finish.

This is why Defoe is scoring at Pompey and looks a totally different player - at Pompey they are creating chances for him, and he is putting them away. This doesn't mean he's playing any better, he's just playing differently. The same would happen were Bent to move to another club - he'd bag a hatful based on his team creating chances for him to finish.

This, really, is the whole problem with Spurs at the moment.

Our midfield is barely UEFA Cup place quality. It's extremely average at best. Thus we need two of the most creative strikers in the country to make chances for themselves and others in order to get us goals. Our defence got lambasted early in the season, and rightly so, but they were offered no protection whatsoever by our midfield, who couldn't win the ball, couldn't hold on to it, and couldn't do anything with it. The same goes for Robbo. He wouldn't let in so many 30-yarders if our midfield actually bothered tackling people in that dangerous area outside the box (they are doing this more under Ramos - a lot more).

Back to the point, I'm really not bothered by the prospect of losing Berbatov, so long as we use the money to significantly improve our midfield in the summer. Tiago would be a decent buy, as would Capel, but I have reservations about Tiago's quality and Capel's consistency. Bent and Keane would be an excellent partnership which would work on every level.

As long as we don't sell Berbatov to an English club, and seriously improve our midfield, I'm not too bothered. I've long since grown tired of his flapping arms, his petulant jumping up and down on the spot, his lack of willingness to run, his regular missing of gilt-edged, incredibly important chances, and refusal to praise or encourage team-mates. I'm sure plenty of people will lay into me and proclaim Berbatov as the true Second Coming (hi Berbati), but those people will be using their Berba-tinted specs, and simply not noticing his poor form which has followed him through almost the entire season, and his frankly disgusting unwillingness to run three yards which has become increasingly prevalent in recent weeks.

A fantastically talented footballer, of that there is no doubt, but one who is clearly not happy playing his trade with Steed Malbranque and Aaron Lennon rather than Wayne Rooney and Christiano Ronaldo.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Exactly what I have said all along, the common denominator in all our frailities - the lack of a decent midfield.

 

[DC_Boy]

I certainly don't think he's the perfect striker, but I suspect I rate him a lot higher than Bobbins and I'm beginning to suspect higher than you too 57.

For me he's our best player, a Spurs legend and right up there with the very best of spurs strikers (aside from greaves who is on a different plane for many reasons, not least his longevity with us)- and I'm not going to spend too much time defending him - if people want to start having a knock at him fair enough, I won't agree with them, but feel free to go ahead it's all about opinions

 

[diegooners]

Well, I always get shot at for bringing chance conversion into it, but Berbatov has not done particularly well in this respect—no better than Defoe last season, or Bent this, and rather worse than Keane. If you take GPM, he fares no better.

And, sorry, whether Berbatov made that chance with a great bit of skill or not is immaterial. The 949 team were raving about Cudicini's save, which led me to believe he'd done something truly extraordinary. On the spur of the moment, it was an understandable reaction. Nevertheless, the fact is that Berba had time to put the ball a yard or more either side of Cudicini, and didn't. It was a very good save, but one I'd have expected most EPL keepers to make, Robbo included.

He simply isn't a killer finisher. Sure, goals aren't the be-all and end-all, and Berbatov brings a whole lot more to the party. But let's not pretend that he is the complete striker, because he isn't.

I think your right you know. He's not as good a finisher as someone like Eto'o or Van Nistelrooy. However, He's still a darn sight more killer than Keane, and I'd say on a par with Bent who is seen as an out and out goalscorer. The fact that he hasn't scored so many for spurs is down to our fucked up system where Dimi has to play midfield aswell as upfront. If you think he's not a "killer finisher" then you should take a look at some clips of his last 3 seasons at Bayer, or his goal record for his country which, sadly, dicks on our beloved Keano's.

 

[SpurSince57]

What on earth do international scoring records have to do with it? Baros' is fantastic, but he's been hopeless in the EPL (and was pretty ineffectual for Lyon, too), and I'm sure Fulham would love David Healy to have reproduced his Norn Iron form for them this season.

Keane has put a markedly higher percentage of his attempts on target away (and they have a similar accuracy). It's closer this season than last, but he still has an edge.

 

[Liquidator]

My disappointment and anger might just about be appeased by a combination of Torres and C Ronaldo on the field, along with George Clooney and two of his babes to sit next to me every game and hang with me afterwards 'til I send them away.

Other than that, I could accept no substitute.

 

[yanno]

My tuppence worth is that I think Berba is a very composed finisher. He has a picture of what he's trying to do and where he's trying to put the ball. As opposed to say Defoe, who often simply shifts the ball and shoots as hard as possible.

Berba's goal return has suffered a bit because he's often been playing as the slightly deeper, linking, striker under Ramos, which is probably part of the reason why he doesn't score many scruffy goals. And because we haven't been putting many quality crosses in the from the flanks.

Both Berba and Bent (as he showed with his excellent header on Sunday) are very dangerous in the air. If Ramos can make our flanks more productive (through a combination of some new players and a proper pre-season), then I'm sure we'll score a lot more headed goals.

 

[deselina]

3 things.

villa? outpriced even for real madrid, what makes you think levi can afford him?

luis fabiano. is this year's pichici and will most likely go to real madrid after this season. rumours have it that ac milan wants ruud for big money.

huntelaar. don't know if he has been mentioned in this thread but has been mentioned a few times during the transfer period. about to sign for barcelona, already in talks.