Who would be an acceptable replacement for Berba?

[TaoistMonkey]

if Ramos lost Berbs then id expect to suddenly see lots more leave too and a fresh midfield and attack created, emulating his Sevilla side.

i think Ramos would like to build a more fluent even team not reliant on one spearhead figure.

given the oppurtunity i believe he'd get in Kameni, Jarque, Albelda, Tiago, Capel, Kanoute and perhaps Fabiano.

nice british line up :roll:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Thinking it through, Poulsen & Albelda (two D/CMs with whom we've been persistently linked) are fairly similar players: aggressive, tough, excellent team players who fill in the gaps when flair players bomb forward. But neither of them are very fast, and both are simple rather than creative passers.

B-C: you're correct that Huddlestone will never be as aggressive as Poulsen or Albelda. Maybe Juande does value aggression in his holding CM, and this is why he's playing Huddlestone alongside a dedicated DM in Zokora. Personally, I'm not convinced "aggression" is crucial for a DM: one would never describe Carrick as aggressive, but he shielded the back four splendidly.

I still think Huddlestone's "speed of thought" will appear much quicker once we've signed more wide players in the summer, and our CM players have options breaking at speed on both flanks (something we're sadly lacking at the moment).



For me, the point about Riquelme is that he is the archetypal No 10, an out-and-out ACM who is a genius at dictating the tempo and spotting the through ball. However, coaches like van Gaal and Rijkaard have concluded that he can't play CM in a flat midfield four in a modern 4-4-2. Barca weren't prepared to change their whole formation to accommodate Riquelme. Some Argentina coaches have built a team around him; others have left him out in the cold

I'm still fascinated that Riquelme stated that we made him an offer in October, shortly after Juande joined.

My interpretation? If world class players are available, Ramos will encourage Levy & Commoli to try to sign them. If we had succeeded in signing Riquelme, then Ramos would have backed his ability as a coach to create a formation that got the best from our world class attacking players: Riquelme & Berba. It would have been fascinating to see how he accommodated them both.

The two most likely formations for Ramos to adopt would be a diamond 4-1-2-1-2, and a Spanish 4-2-3-1 (with Berba as the lone striker). My suspicion - and this partly addresses Deadwood Dem's point - is that he would have preserved the width, and switched to a Spanish 4-2-3-1: two holding CMs behind Riquelme, two attacking wide players and only one striker.

B-C: I don't think Ramos will be changing our formation next season to accommodate Huddlestone as a Number 10 ACM. However, I do think Huddlestone will play a lot of games in CM and at CB next season.

This is a very good point and at the crux of wheteher we move forward. Something I alluded to exactly almost in a thread today here:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=850887&postcount=89

 

[yanno]

This is a very good point and at the crux of wheteher we move forward. Something I alluded to exactly almost in a thread today here:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=850887&postcount=89

B-C: Yup. Good points about Sevilla.

If we get a player like Diego Capel in, and have Bale & Gilberto fully fit, our left flank is transformed. Hutton and a combination of Lennon, Steed (and possibly another new signing) should provide attacking flair down the right. Those attacking combinations of FBs & wingers down the flanks will frighten most teams.

At Sevilla, the FBs & wide midfielders frequently bomb forward together, and as a result their CMs rarely play box-to-box. Keita has scored a couple of great goals but with long shots from outside the box. Poulsen is the "glue" that holds the pieces together when the flair players attack, and rarely gets anywhere near the opposition penalty box.

B-C: I agree that the demands placed on two CMs in a 4-4-2 in the EPL are getting ever higher. Chavski usually play with 3 CMs. Man Utd sometimes do as well. The goons' 4-4-2 is often closer to a fluid 4-5-1. And Liverpool have recently switched to a 4-2-3-1: with Mascherano and Alonso or Lucas playing behind Gerrard as an ACM.

Juande has recognized the problems faced by the central two by sometimes switching to a three in CM: the CC Final being a great example, when Huddlestone joined JJ & Zoko in CM, and it helped us win the game.

 

[dirtydave]

nice british line up :roll:

yeah but in fairness who would you buy who's British, did you see the England match last night?

 

[bryanabutler]

Hotspurs61 Karim Benzema

 

[Bobbins]

Darren Bent.

 

[Sputic]

Replacement for Berbatov?

Andrei Arshavin.

Not a like for like replacement, but we couldn't get one anyway.

When we lost Carrick, we never replaced him as a player. But we did replace him as the fulcrum of our team. The replacement? Berbatov. We just changed the way we played slightly, something we were able to do because of what Berbatov brought to the team.

If we lost Berbatov but signed Arshavin we could change the way we play again. And believe me, he is a wonderful player. Even when not at his best, he was head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch when England played in Moscow. And he lead a generally average Zenit St Petersburg team to the Russian League title last season.

fulcrum
1 [C] the point at which a bar, or something that is balancing, is supported or balances:
A see-saw balances at its fulcrum.

2 FORMAL the main thing or person needed to support something or to make it work or happen:
The fulcrum of the debate/argument is the individual's right to choose.

 

[Bulletspur]

I know this is a Berbatov thread but on Huddlestone what most seem to be missing is that he does not get caught with the ball. His touch is good, he shields the ball well and is strong enough to withstand challenges. His range is 5 yards to 50 yards. On Saturday one ball he lifted toward the left side reminded me of Hoddle out to Tony Galvin. If we get a left sider who can 'arrive' we will be dangerous. At the moment one leg Chimbonda and drift in Steed do not want to receive a wide left ball from Tommy. Wait til Bale is back and Huddlestone will show another dimension to his passing game. Can Huddlestone get back? Probably as well as Glenn.

You really got to be kidding!. This the the area where Hud falls down. He has everything going for him except that he cant tackle and because his mobility is not that good, gets dispossesed quite often, where others like steed, Teemo or zok have to win the ball back as he is too slow. Did you watch say the Prague game? Most of their attacks were made through Hud for the very reason he kept getting caught with the ball.

 

[lukespurs7]

if Ramos lost Berbs then id expect to suddenly see lots more leave too and a fresh midfield and attack created, emulating his Sevilla side.

i think Ramos would like to build a more fluent even team not reliant on one spearhead figure.

given the oppurtunity i believe he'd get in Kameni, Jarque, Albelda, Tiago, Capel, Kanoute and perhaps Fabiano.

If Berbatov leaving meant we re-built and got them then he should leave, only bad one is kanoute as he's too old but otherwise that'd be some team:

----------------------Kameni-----------------------------

Hutton-------Jarque--------------Woodgate---Bale--------

Lennon------Tiago---------------Albelda--------Capel-----

------------Fabiano------------Keane---------------------

World-fucking-class!

7 subs:
Robbo?
Chimbonda?/King?
O'Hara?
Huddlestone?
Jenas?
Malbranque?
Bent?

some team huh?

 

[drjimmy]

Time to bring chris armstrong back.

Or Chris 'just missed again' Jones..........? mg:

 

[drjimmy]

As I see it, there is no 'replacement' for Berbatov. The guy is a one-off and I feel privileged to have seen him in a Spurs shirt.

However, if he does go - and I admit to fearing that he will - I think the whole team will need re-shaping, to accommodate whoever the replacement is.

Over the last months, Snr Ramos has made subtle changes to the way we play, with Berba dropping deeper on occasions and bringing other players into the game more, and I don't see that continuing without changing a fair few others.

I really feel that knowing whether Berbs will stay or not, is the real key to who else comes in.

 

[DC_Boy]

'As I see it, there is no 'replacement' for Berbatov. The guy is a one-off and I feel privileged to have seen him in a Spurs shirt.'

well said drj -

obviously life will go on, we may even get better, but we'll never see another Berbs - I remember how gutted I was when greaves and hoddle went, then it was time to move on, spurs did as ever, but we'll never see their like again either

 

[sim0n]

Time to bring chris armstrong back.

At least he knows how to roll a fat wooler - party on Garth :razz:

 

[sim0n]

Oh yeah, Klinsmann, Greaves, Chivers, or maybe Batistuta...

Of course there's no one at this point - could only be a downgrade from Berbatov at this stage of his career. Dimitar has it all.

 

[$hoguN]

Villa and Fabiano i'd take but no player will take the place of Berbatov, think i'll cry a little if he leaves

 

[Bobbins]

A significant improvement in the quality of our midfield will see the need for a lot of Berbatov's work disappear.

At the moment, we need him in order to help us create chances, because our midfield is so limited in this area. They don't get enough goals either. With a better midfield (I'm thinking a new CM to play alongside one of Jenas or Huddlestone, and a new LM so poor old Steed can stop playing out of position) there will be far less reliance on the strikers to create their own chances.

We're a bit of a strange team, really. Berbatov and Keane are the most creative and successful front two in the entire league, but only because they have to be. Most teams create chances that they give to the strikers to put away - our strikers have to create most of their own chances themselves.

Look at Bent against Pompey last week - one decent ball from midfield and bang - one goal. Against West Ham, one decent cross from the right - bang - one great diving header finish.

This is why Defoe is scoring at Pompey and looks a totally different player - at Pompey they are creating chances for him, and he is putting them away. This doesn't mean he's playing any better, he's just playing differently. The same would happen were Bent to move to another club - he'd bag a hatful based on his team creating chances for him to finish.

This, really, is the whole problem with Spurs at the moment.

Our midfield is barely UEFA Cup place quality. It's extremely average at best. Thus we need two of the most creative strikers in the country to make chances for themselves and others in order to get us goals. Our defence got lambasted early in the season, and rightly so, but they were offered no protection whatsoever by our midfield, who couldn't win the ball, couldn't hold on to it, and couldn't do anything with it. The same goes for Robbo. He wouldn't let in so many 30-yarders if our midfield actually bothered tackling people in that dangerous area outside the box (they are doing this more under Ramos - a lot more).

Back to the point, I'm really not bothered by the prospect of losing Berbatov, so long as we use the money to significantly improve our midfield in the summer. Tiago would be a decent buy, as would Capel, but I have reservations about Tiago's quality and Capel's consistency. Bent and Keane would be an excellent partnership which would work on every level.

As long as we don't sell Berbatov to an English club, and seriously improve our midfield, I'm not too bothered. I've long since grown tired of his flapping arms, his petulant jumping up and down on the spot, his lack of willingness to run, his regular missing of gilt-edged, incredibly important chances, and refusal to praise or encourage team-mates. I'm sure plenty of people will lay into me and proclaim Berbatov as the true Second Coming (hi Berbati), but those people will be using their Berba-tinted specs, and simply not noticing his poor form which has followed him through almost the entire season, and his frankly disgusting unwillingness to run three yards which has become increasingly prevalent in recent weeks.

A fantastically talented footballer, of that there is no doubt, but one who is clearly not happy playing his trade with Steed Malbranque and Aaron Lennon rather than Wayne Rooney and Christiano Ronaldo.

 

[Mornstar]

Eidur Gudjonson

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Johan Elmander

 

[sim0n]

Johan Elmander

All due respect - Elmander looked a bit of a plow horse when I've seen him play. Not a replacement for Berbatov, but maybe the new 4th striker.

 

[DC_Boy]

what gilt-edged incredibly important chances has Berb missed? please don't say the Chelsea one - Berbs made that chance with superb skill and was then denied by a fantastic save

if we're talking missing fantastically important gilt-edged chances look no further than Keane's pen v Arsenal or defoe's v West Ham

Berbs is our best player, and if people can't see that - well it's up to them