Why Harry Redknapp is no longer the manager to take Spurs Forward

[tttcowan]

With Dawson and Crouch in the team for most of last season i'd say we were long ball quite a bit. Don't get me wrong most of the time Dawson doesn't aimlessly hoof but he did seem to go long too often when he had plenty of time where as now you will rarely see King Kaboul go long.

Yeah sorry, thought he was talking about this season.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Frankly I've never seen ANY team play football quite like the way we are at the moment... It draws from the dutch concept of total football heavily but it's an extension of that. Where as that method relies on playing the majority of football centrally we are brutal on the wings... Lennon and Bale frequently end up on the same side with Parker covering whoever else wants to get involved ie one of the fullbacks. P VDV drops so deep a lot of the time he ends up deeper than the majority of our midfield, in essence where Parker should be. Modric covers the whole pitch... Positions??? Who needs them...

I think all of our coaching staff and playing staff including Harry deserves credit there... It's a new, bold way of playing that's an evolution of ideas the dutch and old spurs teams of old were famous for... Personally I bloody love it and quite how you can consider it "Long Ball" BC absolutely baffles me.

I don't think you really understand Total Football.

 

[Narnill]

Feel free to tell me where Harry's got it wrong.

Turned us round and kept us up, highest EPL finish ever, 5th and CL quarter finals and has built a great squad, all while playing the Spurs way. You want to see him imitate Benitez with tactics and that? Turn into a boring side?

It's far from broke so why fix it?

I have seen nothing worthy of notable criticism from HR's tenure so far. Although you may of course feel free to point out a minor tactical issue in a game we drew 2 years ago to validate your point or whatever.

The usual suspects are looking for excuses to have a pop, some far more than others. I've a bit more faith in the guy and with good reason because I can see how much the club has turned around.



IF we win our next game, that's his win ratio up to 50% and that included revamping the squad from Juande's mess. You love your stats, think about that one.

All by playing the Spurs way? I disagree. Our standard of football in the league last year was sub-par and 3 points from 18 against Wigan, West Ham and Blackpool is criminal.

Harry has done well, no question. But I want us to be the best we can be and if improvements can be made, then I am all for it.

Redknapp got us into the CL, then had a poor season after it, with the players at his disposal. But it's OK because he got us into the CL in the first place right?

Well, take Defoe. Our top scorer when we qualified, had a poor season, has started well this year, but people wanted him replaced and he has no place in anyone's starting 11.

Defoe was not immune to criticism, so Harry cannot be either. He's done well the past 9 games, well, not spectacular as for 45 minutes in each game, I had to watch Newcastle, Blackburn, Wigan and Fulham take us to bits in the respective second halves.

This is my worry aout Redknapp, he does not learn from mistakes quickly enough.

 

[tttcowan]

I don't think you really understand Total Football.

Errrr, yeah I do,

"Total Football (Dutch: totaalvoetbal) is the label given to an influential tactical theory of association football in which any outfield player can take over the role of any other player in a team."

And I stand by my point, interchangeable, fluid positions... Not all over the park but I've already talked about Lennon and Bale swapping sides, being on the same side, coming inside, Parker dropping into defence(or covering Modric or VDV), VDV dropping into midfield, Modric turning up anywhere in there half... The centre backs and Ade are more rigid but our whole midfield + VDV are ridiculously fluid and the fullbacks less so but still end up in there box and more advanced than our whole midfield.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Yes, part of it is the interchanging of positions around the pitch - something we do well on occasions, not always. It also features aggressive pressing high up the pitch, an aggressively high line which requires an extremely well drilled unit, and is most associated with a 4-3-3 system - which is where we depart from totaalvoetball.

Perhaps my comment was a little flippant, I know what you mean, against Villa our fluidity in the final third was brilliant, but I wouldn't describe us as total football just yet - Redknapp is not Michels/Cruyff!

 

[Lilbaz]

How can anyone say last season was a poor season? We got to the quarter finals of the Champions League, beat Inter and AC Milan, beat Arsenal at their place and finished 5th a European qualification. (name me a better season in the last 18 years)

If your going to go with the argument that "because of the team we have" we should get there. I'll say this:

Jol didn't do it
Ramos almost got us relegated (and if you think we didn''t look like relegation material under him re-watch the games).

If it's because we got better players in, then who got them? Levy sitting at home playing Football Manager and thinking that Sandro in Brazil looks good. Or maybe our scouts and agents, the same way it's always been.

 

[ShelfSide18]

How can anyone say last season was a poor season? We got to the quarter finals of the Champions League, beat Inter and AC Milan, beat Arsenal at their place and finished 5th a European qualification. (name me a better season in the last 18 years)

But no one has said last season was a poor season have they, but they have said it could have been better - we really should have finished 4th. Last season had some great, great moments - but we should be going to the San Siro's and Bernabeu's this season too, rather than Shamrock Rovers.

 

[Lilbaz]

But no one has said last season was a poor season have they, but they have said it could have been better - we really should have finished 4th. Last season had some great, great moments - but we should be going to the San Siro's and Bernabeu's this season too, rather than Shamrock Rovers.

Am I in the wrong thread again Could swear someone said that last season had been poor. Don't worry I will be going to watch Thundercats on Youtube and will leave you girls alone.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Am I in the wrong thread again Could swear someone said that last season had been poor. Don't worry I will be going to watch Thundercats on Youtube and will leave you girls alone.

Ok I'm sure someone has claimed last season to have been poor, but they are recaptured and returned to their institutions very quickly.

 

[tttcowan]

Yes, part of it is the interchanging of positions around the pitch - something we do well on occasions, not always. It also features aggressive pressing high up the pitch, an aggressively high line which requires an extremely well drilled unit, and is most associated with a 4-3-3 system - which is where we depart from totaalvoetball.

Perhaps my comment was a little flippant, I know what you mean, against Villa our fluidity in the final third was brilliant, but I wouldn't describe us as total football just yet - Redknapp is not Michels/Cruyff!

I think my point was it draws from that but yes, there are a lot of differences... We're trying to do something different to everyone else in the league tho and I don't think it's been done before. I would agree we need to press more further up the pitch ala Barca but I think we're trying to implement that as it's very much a proven technique used by the very top teams... But those triangles in the final third but out wide where any 3 of 7 players can be involved is something new.

In the modern game fullbacks have become weaker defensively and less protected. We're taking advantage of that by overloading those areas. A lot of its down to Parker being able to cover essentially any of the midfield and fullbacks and sometimes centre backs but yeah... In my opinion it's all very clever.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

But no one has said last season was a poor season have they, but they have said it could have been better - we really should have finished 4th. Last season had some great, great moments - but we should be going to the San Siro's and Bernabeu's this season too, rather than Shamrock Rovers.

They have mate, read the first few pages of this thread. To be honest I'm not a massive fan of bumped threads, people say things and opinions change all the time, depends how much scotch has been consumed as well.

But what fucks me off, is the ****s who come on here spouting the bile, then are nowhere to be seen after 8 wins in 9 games. The first 6 pages of this thread are like a Sunshine Club convention, it's absolutely fucking hilarious. It's only after about page 7 where people start actually debating.

If you've had a shit day at work, then been running in the rain, and really need a pick me up, just read posts like this one below, it cant fail to cheer you up :lol:

spot on about everything!

Especially Redknapps arrogance and disregard for THFC, his pig headedness, hypocrisy and his complete tactical ineptness - which is an embarrassment.
Great tacticians can win games with shit teams, but Redknapp thinks it's 90% about the players - of course, if the 10% of tactics are spot on, that makes 100%, in Redknapps case it's 90% players, 10% sod all.

His record is there for all to see - as brilliantly highlighted in the above main post.
His transfer "wheeling dealing" is pretty much crap, I mean who of worth has he ever bought into the Club?

His honours list...errmmm....ONE Trophy of note, hardly a successful manager.

And finally, he think's he's so brilliant - I hope to God he goes nowhere near the England team, as I dread another Graham Taylor era.

I've one thing to say to Redknapp, as mentioned in another thread;

You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

(Oliver Cromwell)

 

[Lilbaz]

Ok I'm sure someone has claimed last season to have been poor, but they are recaptured and returned to their institutions very quickly.

Sorry it's me. Had a bottle of wine with little sleep, been having a go at the bloke sitting next to me for a while now, it doesn't matter that he doesn't exist, at least I win the argument.

 

[tooey]

I think my point was it draws from that but yes, there are a lot of differences... We're trying to do something different to everyone else in the league tho and I don't think it's been done before. I would agree we need to press more further up the pitch ala Barca but I think we're trying to implement that as it's very much a proven technique used by the very top teams... But those triangles in the final third but out wide where any 3 of 7 players can be involved is something new.

In the modern game fullbacks have become weaker defensively and less protected. We're taking advantage of that by overloading those areas. A lot of its down to Parker being able to cover essentially any of the midfield and fullbacks and sometimes centre backs but yeah... In my opinion it's all very clever.

I had us doing this on football manager in '05. Third in the league, going nicely in the uefa cup. Problem was that the board were stalling on giving me a new stadium, I gave an ultimateum...the rest is history (Its funny just how close is can randomly get to the truth)....Im not bitter about it though :-|.

 

[ShelfSide18]

They have mate, read the first few pages of this thread

I actually thought I was in another thread for some reason, my bad.

Only an idiot would describe last season as poor, but I disagree with Redknapp when he said it was as good as it gets - because we should have breezed 4th. 5th was no disaster, and the Champions League was quite simply amazing, I want it again.

 

[tttcowan]

I had us doing this on football manager in '05. Third in the league, going nicely in the uefa cup. Problem was that the board were stalling on giving me a new stadium, I gave an ultimateum...the rest is history (Its funny just how close is can randomly get to the truth)....Im not bitter about it though :-|.

Haha, it seems you were ahead of the game then... But yeah, Harry is a tactically inept buffoon. The concepts we're seeing being implemented are just purely a coincidence and he has nothing to do with any of it.:roll:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think my point was it draws from that but yes, there are a lot of differences... We're trying to do something different to everyone else in the league tho and I don't think it's been done before. I would agree we need to press more further up the pitch ala Barca but I think we're trying to implement that as it's very much a proven technique used by the very top teams... But those triangles in the final third but out wide where any 3 of 7 players can be involved is something new.

In the modern game fullbacks have become weaker defensively and less protected. We're taking advantage of that by overloading those areas. A lot of its down to Parker being able to cover essentially any of the midfield and fullbacks and sometimes centre backs but yeah... In my opinion it's all very clever.

What about Arsenal, their brand of football under Wenger as much closer to total football than we've come, and what's more they play it every week for most of a game, not once every six months for 45 minutes.

Total football is as much about physical discipline and movement off the ball as it is about flowing football. You have to be super fit and everyone has cover each other, not Parker covering every ****. It's about every player defending and pressing and every player attacking as coherent units.

How is what we are doing clever or inventive. Ferguson was (and still does sometimes) playing 442 with two wide men (Giggs, Kanchelskis) a floater (Cantona) 15 years ago.

What about ManC this season, they defend as a unit and their attacking play has at times made ours look pedestrian. How is what we are doing any better or closer to total football than what they are doing ?

It didn't look clever for most of last season , and it didn't look clever against ManC, Blackburn, QPR, Fulham or Arsenal this season for varying amounts of the game.

Total football doesn't change just because you have a player or two out, it's an all encompassing ethos from the top to the bottom of a club.

We have showed sporadic glimpses of playing the type of football that top sides play, but lets not get carried away, because as we have also played some pretty turgid stuff that looked unorganised, poorly disciplined, weak and vulnerable, definitely not the hallmarks of a side who have mastered "total football". Partial football maybe.

 

[sloth]

Harry's not perfect, neither is Rednose, Whinger, Pep Guardiola or Jose.... You can also find fans at everyone of there clubs who are critical of there manager, even at Barca. This is the way of things in football... I would say however you could pick better faults with Arry other than you don't like he's twitchy, his accent, the fact the media like him, his reputation as a wheeler dealer/east end wideboy/crook. But some people are classless like that I guess.

He messes up the team sheet sometimes and he should never of compared Bent to his wife but shit the bed, thats not bad going considering some of the shite other managers pull at the very top clubs... Look at red nose getting pissy with players in the past and forcing them out... He almost forced out Nani and Anderson not so long ago. And we all know Wengers faults.

Perspective people.

To hear some tell it me and BC (and I guess a few others?) come across as if we believe Harry's Beelzebub incarnated, that we believe he can do no right and in fact always get's it wrong.

The reality is I have a couple of specific and consistent criticisms which I make when I think he's wrong, but that doesn't mean I don't praise him when I think he's right. So far this year I think I've praised and criticised Harry in equal measure.

I do think he's below the top level, but I have never argued that we should get rid of him, even if, say, an Ancelotti type were to declare himself suddenly available - this btw, even at the beginning of the season after losing the first two games and before the TW turned good. Which I argued consistently that it would.

I have said from the start that we shouldn't judge the season a failure if we finish fifth, that Harry's earned the right to prove the critics like me wrong, I put my money where my mouth was and made even money bets with several of my colleagues on us finishing top four even after our start (and did so not out of false pride, but because I believed it).

What I do do however is write long-winded posts with a break-down of what I think's right or wrong. Guilty as charged. As I've said to Paolo before, don't read it if you don't like it.

 

[tttcowan]

What about Arsenal, their brand of football under Wenger as much closer to total football than we've come, and what's more they play it every week for most of a game, not once every six months for 45 minutes.

Total football is as much about physical discipline and movement off the ball as it is about flowing football. You have to be super fit and everyone has cover each other, not Parker covering every ****. It's about every player defending and pressing and every player attacking as coherent units.

How is what we are doing clever or inventive. Ferguson was (and still does sometimes) playing 442 with two wide men (Giggs, Kanchelskis) a floater (Cantona) 15 years ago.

What about ManC this season, they defend as a unit and their attacking play has at times made ours look pedestrian. How is what we are doing any better or closer to total football than what they are doing ?

It didn't look clever for most of last season , and it didn't look clever against ManC, Blackburn, QPR, Fulham or Arsenal this season for varying amounts of the game.

Total football doesn't change just because you have a player or two out, it's an all encompassing ethos from the top to the bottom of a club.

We have showed sporadic glimpses of playing the type of football that top sides play, but lets not get carried away, because as we have also played some pretty turgid stuff that looked unorganised, poorly disciplined, weak and vulnerable, definitely not the hallmarks of a side who have mastered "total football". Partial football maybe.

I'm not saying we're playing total football... I'm saying we're using some of the ideas from it, namely, the defensive cover and the interchanging fluid positions.

The whole "new concept" I'm on about is using those interchangable/fluid positions to allow us to overload areas of the pitch which haven't been attacked in the way we are attacking them before. Those wide areas in the final 3rd. Arsenal have always tried to play through the middle, as have Man City, Chelsea, Barca etc...

For example, when we attack there left final third, it could be any 3 of Modric, Lennon, VDV, Walker, Bale and less likely but still a possibility Parker or Ade. On the other side replace Walker for Benny. And this could happen at any point in the match as in its not dependant on which side Bale or Lennon are currently playing...

Now if your a fullback or centre back for the opposition, what the hell are you gonna do about it???

I honestly don't think any teams done this before.

I've not even touched on the implications of VDV ending up the deepest midfielder at times but it's part of the reason we end up with Lennon and Bale on the same side of the park a lot of the time... Ofcourse all in my opinion.

Also... It won't always work, but this is football and nothing ever works every time.

 

[tttcowan]

To hear some tell it me and BC (and I guess a few others?) come across as if we believe Harry's Beelzebub incarnated, that we believe he can do no right and in fact always get's it wrong.

The reality is I have a couple of specific and consistent criticisms which I make when I think he's wrong, but that doesn't mean I don't praise him when I think he's right. So far this year I think I've praised and criticised Harry in equal measure.

I do think he's below the top level, but I have never argued that we should get rid of him, even if, say, an Ancelotti type were to declare himself suddenly available - this btw, even at the beginning of the season after losing the first two games and before the TW turned good. Which I argued consistently that it would.

I have said from the start that we shouldn't judge the season a failure if we finish fifth, that Harry's earned the right to prove the critics like me wrong, I put my money where my mouth was and made even money bets with several of my colleagues on us finishing top four even after our start (and did so not out of false pride, but because I believed it).

What I do do however is write long-winded posts with a break-down of what I think's right or wrong. Guilty as charged. As I've said to Paolo before, don't read it if you don't like it.

Sorry, I wasn't snipping at anyone in particular, I've just seen points around like

"he's twitchy, his accent, the fact the media like him, his reputation as a wheeler dealer/east end wideboy/crook"

which seem in bad taste and don't relate to what's actually going on on the pitch... Which is what we should all be primarily concerned with.

 

[sloth]

Sorry, I wasn't snipping at anyone in particular, I've just seen points around like

"he's twitchy, his accent, the fact the media like him, his reputation as a wheeler dealer/east end wideboy/crook"

which seem in bad taste and don't relate to what's actually going on on the pitch... Which is what we should all be primarily concerned with.

Yeah sorry, that was a post I began much earlier when I was being snarled at by Paolo.