Would you stop supporting Spurs if they signed a gay player?

[diamond lights]

Perhaps reading this will help you understand why; I have done my best to make this post informative and helpful, rather than argumentative:

Two out of every five victims of school homophobic bullying contemplate suicide, says survey:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/two-out-of-every-five-victims-of-school-homophobic-bullying-contemplate-suicide-says-survey-7917473.html?amp?client=safari

For the wider background to your statement, homosexuality was illegal and punishable by death in the UK until 1861. It was only in 1967 that homosexual acts between men were decrimininalised, and even then only with a higher age of consent - 21, versus the heterosexual consent age of 16; the decrimininalisation also only applied to acts between two men (and no more).

It is only relatively recently that society and, with it, the law, has recognised that discrimination against gay, bisexual and transgender people is unacceptable and should be treated the same way as discrimination on the grounds of race or sex, both of which are considerably more well established in terms of legal protection and the level of social stigma attached to them.

However, the fact that racism has, in general terms, been deemed unacceptable by society and the law for longer than homophobia does not make the latter any less important or serious.

The entire basis and foundation for societal equality is that no one should be treated less favourably (a legal term in the various discrimination legislation) on the basis of their race, sex, disability, sexual orientation, religion or other belief, and so on. Discrimination on each of those grounds is equally wrong. (Problems arise where there is a conflict - most notably where religion conflicts with, say, sexual orientation - hence the numerous cases such as the one from last week about the Christian couple running a cake shop who refused to put a pro-gay slogan on a gay customer's cake. But that is a whole other discussion.)

For further information, I would recommend visiting the LGBT Foundation website, Stonewall website and reading the resources there, or even just Googling "gay bullying".

If you want more specific detail, look at the text of, and guidance for, the Equality Act 2010, which sets out the various "protected characteristics" under UK discrimination law - including race, sex, disability and - yes - sexual orientation.

I hope this helps.

This is an important point. I have experience of an employee that had suicidal thoughts and even an attempt because of what he thought would happen if he came out. He couldn't cope with the feelings he was having as he didn't think he would be accepted by family etc. In some provincial areas in Northern Ireland it's still pretty taboo with the cultural influence of the churches - both Catholic and Protestant.
It was awful to watch him cope with this and taught me a lot about my attitudes up to that point. Anything that can be done to make people accept others no matter what their sexuality, colour or background is a positive. If Spurs having the first "out" gay player raises awareness and helps change attitudes then I would personally be proud of the club and the player for his bravery. Hard to believe this is the case in 2016.

 

[Shea]

This is an important point. I have experience of an employee that had suicidal thoughts and even an attempt because of what he thought would happen if he came out. He couldn't cope with the feelings he was having as he didn't think he would be accepted by family etc. In some provincial areas in Northern Ireland it's still pretty taboo with the cultural influence of the churches - both Catholic and Protestant.
It was awful to watch him cope with this and taught me a lot about my attitudes up to that point. Anything that can be done to make people accept others no matter what their sexuality, colour or background is a positive. If Spurs having the first "out" gay player raises awareness and helps change attitudes then I would personally be proud of the club and the player for his bravery. Hard to believe this is the case in 2016.

I think people under estimate the power of sports and sporting role models at times

It wasn't that long ago that black people were very suppressed and very much second class citizens (I know many would argue they still are but you get the point) especially in countries like the States

Successful black athletes and role models in general have clearly had a major influence on both increasing the pride and self esteem of black people and also in the eyes of other races

I remember even when I was a kid pretty much all the black kids supported Liverpool due to John Barnes or Arsenal due to Ian Wright and took pride from the success of these iconic players as role models (and this is a long time removed from the days of lynchings and banana throwing - can only imagine the impact of people like Ali in his day)

If there were openly gay football players and (more) positive gay role models in general I think it would go a long way towards stopping some of the pain and suffering that these kids go through

At the risk of completely stereotyping myself - even if a majority of gay kids are less directly interested in sports themselves respected and idolised gay footballers and whatever other role models would still help to change a lot of the negative stereotypes and opinions that are still intrinsically present in society and other kids or other people see homosexuality as something wrong, weak, inferior or funny whatever

It occurs to me that there's a very strong possibility that before my brother in law came out when he was still a kid he would have heard me using terms like gay or fag in a negative (albeit joking/light hearting in my own eyes) sense and I could well have contributed in some way to him feeling unable to accept his own sexuality. I know for a fact his dad and that entire side of the family and culture in general contributed to in (dancehall/bashment songs about batty bwoy, step pon chici man, boom bye bye etc) and even his liberal mother made comments to suggest it was a negative thing to be homosexual when she said she felt bad for the next door neighbor when her son came out as gay (less than a year before her own son came out ironically)

So my point is - I don't consider myself to have ever been remotely homophobic yet still there's the very real possibility that I myself had some level of contribution in someone close to me feeling less accepting of themself and going on to become very suicidal and self destructive. Basically through carelessness and thinking these things are not a big deal etc, I can only imagine kids at school were just as careless and not thinking about the potential consequences of their words and attitudes even if those words do not actually reflect how you feel

I actually think gay sportsmen almost have a duty of care to stand up and be counted for these kids, be strong enough not to hide away just because their sexuality is nobodies business (though I agree it is not), if you're in a position to make changes for the better I feel you should do that and I respect Gareth Thomas for having the strength of character to make his sexuality public

 

[CosmicHotspur]

Can we have this ref officiating please?

 

[PLTuck]

I just hope that the 14 that voted yes are either trolling or just fuck off and support West Ham or Chelsea where they will feel right at home.

 

[DJS]

I just hope that the 14 that voted yes are either trolling or just fuck off and support West Ham or Chelsea where they will feel right at home.

Yeah I agree, as long as the players play well and with passion for the club then who they decide to partner up with is their business (so long as they don't do an Adam Johnson lol).

Hopefully as suggested earlier in thread they're just trolling.

 

[Shea]

I think Reggie Yates did a very good documentary that deals with this subject (though not the football aspect) Stephen K Amos did another one about homosexuality in the black community too

Reggie is 2 years younger than me so basically from the same generation and from what he says it seems he would have been in or around similar social circles to me and at similar types of nightclub and bar nights etc. on the same scene at the same time in our youth

He mentions certain songs and how they were overtly homphobic like TOK, Buju Banton and Elephantman promoting the burning and killing of gay people just for being gay and how they were very popular at bashment parties and carnival for example - maybe not completely mainstream but a pretty large scene in the 2000s for sure (same for Garage and Hip Hop/Rnb scene

He goes on to talk about how large groups of gay people even dance and enjoy these songs now - almost taking them back whatever. Which is all well and good for the open and proud gay people who are together and strong in their own environment but does little for those who feel less secure and less proud or part of the gay community and more alone and lost and even ready to die.

If I were a successful sportsman or someone in any real position of power and influence and I belonged to a suppressed minority group I feel like I would want to do everything I can to help people like me not have to struggle, although I suppose it's easy to say that when you come from a white irish/english affluent working class family

 

[DubSpurs]

Why put up a vote and then be disgusted when someone does not share your view. That is odd.

I haven't voted as i feel another option should be added. I wouldnt stop supporting the club as an example but i would be indifferent to the player. I certainly would not abuse or condone the abuse of a gay player though.

So you vote for the first option? Nobody is asking anyone to bow down to a gay player and adorn him with rainbow flags. Instead just support them as a player and be more interested in their value to the club than who they sleep with.

It's a very oddly crafted few sentences you made above there.

 

[DubSpurs]

Not the point, I keep seeing this thread and wonder why this question even has any merit these days. I don't know 8 people in 100 who give a fuck about gay or straight let alone how it would impact being a yid. I guess my point is we should be past this and shouldn't be adding to what is shit journalism anyway and a really sensationalist load of bollocks. Just let it die.

Let it die? Homophobia is a huge problem in football stadiums, writing about it isn't shit journalism but instead tackling a genuine issue

If there was thousands of people standing on terraces each week chanting anti semitic chants or anti immigrant chants would it be better for us to just ignore it and not highlight it just so we don't attract attention?!

Daft point

 

[Shea]

So you vote for the first option? Nobody is asking anyone to bow down to a gay player and adorn him with rainbow flags. Instead just support them as a player and be more interested in their value to the club than who they sleep with.

It's a very oddly crafted few sentences you made above there.

true

Feeling indifferent is just one of many reasons to be part of option A

I would like to hear if anyone would be embarrassed, ashamed or just rather not for whatever reason have an openly gay player playing for the club

I think there are likely to be people who if they are honest about how they feel at the very least would rather not have one and range all the way to would be embarrassed and or disgusted if we had one

but I doubt anyone would actually quit supporting their club over it so I think the original poll which spawned the article is flawed and not really reflective of the level of homophobia in the UK

 

[Shea]

 

[yankspurs]

This thread is essentially just 15 pages of us patting each other on the back. I'm genuinely disappointed no one has differed just to troll and spice things up a bit here.

 

[Shea]

This thread is essentially just 15 pages of us patting each other on the back. I'm genuinely disappointed no one has differed just to troll and spice things up a bit here.

You could have been that guy

 

[Houdini]

This thread is essentially just 15 pages of us patting each other on the back. I'm genuinely disappointed no one has differed just to troll and spice things up a bit here.

I'm still officially off sick.

 

[Mr-T]

Theres obviously something very wrong in the professional game that no top-level player has ever come out during their career.

It's ridiculous that its still an issue.

One up the bum, no harm done.

 

[Kirito]

All the players bang in the shower after a win. So our lads are heterosexual by now.

 

[riggi]

This thread is essentially just 15 pages of us patting each other on the back. I'm genuinely disappointed no one has differed just to troll and spice things up a bit here.

Ite...


Footballers are role models and we shouldn't have role models promote being gay otherwise kids will become gay and we will have no future generations as everyone will just be bumbing and Lezzing out. AIDS. Jesus.

That cover it?

 

[DubSpurs]

Ite...


Footballers are role models and we shouldn't have role models promote being gay otherwise kids will become gay and we will have no future generations as everyone will just be bumbing and Lezzing out. AIDS. Jesus.

That cover it?

You know I met somebody before who made, give or take, that exact same argument before. Difference was he wasn't being sarcastic.

 

[Always Offside]

That is absolutely mental. 8% actually agreed with it!?

8% of supporters are homophobic morons.

 

[Amo]

8% of supporters are homophobic morons.

To be honest I'm pleasantly surprised it's that low.

 

[Hoops]

I think Reggie Yates did a very good documentary that deals with this subject (though not the football aspect) Stephen K Amos did another one about homosexuality in the black community too

Reggie is 2 years younger than me so basically from the same generation and from what he says it seems he would have been in or around similar social circles to me and at similar types of nightclub and bar nights etc. on the same scene at the same time in our youth

He mentions certain songs and how they were overtly homphobic like TOK, Buju Banton and Elephantman promoting the burning and killing of gay people just for being gay and how they were very popular at bashment parties and carnival for example - maybe not completely mainstream but a pretty large scene in the 2000s for sure (same for Garage and Hip Hop/Rnb scene

He goes on to talk about how large groups of gay people even dance and enjoy these songs now - almost taking them back whatever. Which is all well and good for the open and proud gay people who are together and strong in their own environment but does little for those who feel less secure and less proud or part of the gay community and more alone and lost and even ready to die.

If I were a successful sportsman or someone in any real position of power and influence and I belonged to a suppressed minority group I feel like I would want to do everything I can to help people like me not have to struggle, although I suppose it's easy to say that when you come from a white irish/english affluent working class family

Gay black man? He's fucked