Yid

[RussellYid]

This evening, BBC Radio 5 had a discussion about anti-semitism in football. The bulk of the discussion was around the term Yid and our (Spurs fans) use of it.

The two jewish gents on the discussion hated the word and compared it to the N word for black people or the P work for Pakistani people.

Just interested to hear fellow Spurs fans (I've used 'Spurs fans' twice where I would ordinarily use 'Yid') think on the term?

My username will give away the fact that I regularly use the term and have always said I'm part of the Yid Army. The guys on Radio 5 wanted Spurs fans to stop using it.

If you do use it, would/will you stop?

If you don't use it, why? Have you never? Or did realising it was offensive stop you doing it?

 

[camaj]

I voted yes by mistake, so ignore that!

We've had this discussion several times before. Most people don't find it offensive, if you do you just don't get it. I'm sure the two callers were Chelsea fans or something

 

[RussellYid]

I voted yes by mistake, so ignore that!

We've had this discussion several times before. Most people don't find it offensive, if you do you just don't get it. I'm sure the two callers were Chelsea fans or something

One Chelsea, one Leeds.

The Chelsea fan said that he's heard Yossi Benayoun called a Yid by the Chelsea fans.

 

[Luka Lennon]

what's the p word for pakis

 

[C0YS]

One Chelsea, one Leeds.

The Chelsea fan said that he's heard Yossi Benayoun called a Yid by the Chelsea fans.

well that is just racism.

When we use yid it is a mark of pride, and I will sing it. yeed is actually mate in yidish, so as long as you say it like that, which many people do anyway then it really shouldn't be seen as a racist term. Its only fans who don't really understand the term in its context which see it as abusive.

If fans try and use it against us, and not true to the context we use it for then they deserve to be incriminated for it, but although debate on these terms is healthy it would only serve to bring racism to promanence if it where to be taken out of Tottenham.

 

[tommo84]

Oddly enough I was explaining what the word means to a date on Friday, and I said that technically it is the equivalent of the N word.

However, how she came to hear it tells its own story:

She was heading to stay at a friend's flat near the Emirates and on the tube encountered a couple of Arsenal fans going the same way and they were saying 'Yid' enough for her to pick up on it and think to ask me what it meant.

Now, my interpretation of this story, in the context of the 5Live discussion is that regardless of our use of the word as Spurs fans, fans of opposing and rival clubs will continue to use the word to describe us, as our Jewish fan base is a large part of our identity.

If we stop using the word ourselves that could be interpreted as the club's wider fan base distancing ourselves from the club's historic roots in one London's largest Jewish communities. However, while we use it in our current context (i.e as a mark of unity and as the 'badge of honour' as some refer to it) then we are effectively sticking 2 fingers up to those who try to disparage the club's Jewish heritage by displaying that we, as a club, are and forever will be proud of it, regardless of our own religion/ethnicity as individual supporters.

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

Here's the definitive word on the subject (and the answer is no): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emancipation-Through-Muscles-Sports-Europe/dp/0803213557. There's a whole chapter dedicated to Tottenham and Ajax's use of yid/joden.

Basically, only people who don't understand it (generally gentiles from other London clubs) seem to have any problem with it.

 

[stemark44]

I personally don't like the term used in association with Spurs or any of our players,I understand the reasons behind it and it's use to support a section of our fans during difficult times in the past.

Don't see the need for it now.

 

[Mattspur]

I voted yes.

I'm Jewishmg:, and whilst I admit that I don't get particularly offended when Yid Army is sung in the stadium, what does offend me is when fans from other teams use the word, because when they say it, what they mean is "you f-ing Jewish c's":-x. It's clearly a term they use to be derogatory to Spurs fans.

I think that if we didn't use the word then it would be unacceptable for others to use it :snooty:, in the same way as you don't hear common use of the N word at football grounds even though there are a high number of black players and fans there.:supered:

So, far from being a show of unitymg:, it actually encourages use of the term amongst other fans, leaving the people to whom it has negative racial connotations vulnerable:violin:. And the people to whom it has no racial connotations, don’t care:beer:.


PS This is my 666 post! All hail Satan :evil:.

 

[riggi]

Its too over used in my opinion. It should be used by us in chants et but we've gotta accept that other clubs will use it to bite back at us. All said and done though, im not jewish, so my opinion is probably not 100% kosher.....:wink:.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

The people claiming that 'anyone who is offended by it doesn't understand it' are showing a pretty pig-headed attitude. This subject clearly isn't a closed case and is open to debate.

I don't think any Spurs fan using the term is willfully being anti-Semitic, but I still find it fairly cringe-inducing to hear thousands of people chant a word that most of which may not really grasp the true meaning behind. I don't know whether the comparison to the 'N word' is justified or not, but imagine thousands of white people chanting that word, does that sit right?

The bottom line is that people defending its usage aren't doing so because of some deep held unity with Jewish people, they're defending it because they like using it as a term to refer to themselves as Spurs fans, have done for many years and aren't willing to stop now.

 

[BuffaloSid]

It's not the word , its the way a word is used that is offensive

 

[riggi]

Just want too add actually, the link with us and the whole jew crew has lead to me to read up on judaism and even visit a bleedin musuem!! :mg:.

 

[CaptainCat]

The poll's gonna be a bit skewed, as only Jewish people can really vote yes. I don't like the word, but it doesn't offend me.

 

[carrickature]

what i find funny is that peopel are writing 'The N Word' rather than nigger when they will freely write words like Yid.

I personally am of the opinion that words are JUST THAT. it has to be said in spite than to mean spite. if i'm conversing with my friends, and the subjects come up, i will freely use words like nigger, queer, poof, yid, any of these style of words if it assists in any kind of explanation i am giving. i DO NOT do is call someone a nigger or a poof in a derogatory manner, because THAT'S what discrimination, prejudice and all sorts of ugly little things come from.

 

[israyid]

im jewish and i made israel flags with the word yid army.
proud of that

 

[THFC6061]

Well I'm Jewish and in the context of Tottenham Hotspur, I don't find 'Yid' offensive.

I can understand how people with no connection to football and who are ignorant of how the term came to be in use to describe Spurs fans might well be offended though.

Yid Army!

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Like many words it depends on the context it's being used. In the context of us using it as the "Yid Army" I don't think it's offensive, as we are using that name with pride. Other contexts could be construed as racist/offensive.

I'm not Jewish though, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is on this one.

 

[StartingPrice]

Here's the definitive word on the subject (and the answer is no): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emancipation-Through-Muscles-Sports-Europe/dp/0803213557. There's a whole chapter dedicated to Tottenham and Ajax's use of yid/joden.

Basically, only people who don't understand it (generally gentiles from other London clubs) seem to have any problem with it.

At last, me and Dan have some common ground:grin:

As a derivative of a linguistic term that only aoolied to Central/East European Jews who actually spoke the dialect, most people fail tounderstand it wasn't even something aplicable to ALL Jews.

As someone else has pointed out, UI can't find it 'offensive' as I am not Jewish (or a speaker of Yiddish). I can find it 'abusive', but (again, as others have said), only do so in the context of oppos. fans being abusive with other terms and throwing this in as an identifier of the intended abusees.

It would be easy to say that on these occasions these idiots are merely using it as a term to identify Spurs fans, in much the same way that we may said 'Manc' or 'Scouse' followed by a string if abuse. But, firstly, these terms are not of themselves considered to be abusive and demeaning to Mancunians and Liverpudlians, respectively, and secondly, as with the Chelsea idiots and the Gas-Chamber hissing, they are actually making that connection. In that sense, it is abusive, and, I am sure, offensive to Jewish people to hear constant references to 'Yid'.

What I cannot, for the life of me, see, is how this equates in any way to the proud use of the term by Spurs fans referring back directly to the protection of Jewish members of the community against Fascist thugs in the 1930s. In which I would see it as relatively less offensive to anyone than the useof the term 'Gay Pride' by Homosexuals and Lesbians, or the term 'Nigga' by Negroes.

COYS

 

[Spurger King]

Does anyone remember if we chanted Yiddo to Ronny Rosenthal when he was with us? Or if we used the 'Yid Army' chant when we played away to Maccabi Tel Aviv a few years ago?