ENIC - The Poll

[brendanb50]

Voted out because I think some sort of change at board level is due but may not have to mean a complete sale, perhaps just Levy moving aside.

FWIW I’ve long had a balanced view on the stewardship of the club and overall would credit ENIC and Levy with some incredible work in their tenure. Look at the league now and the commercial machine it is, look at the branding that goes with every aspect of the game. Levy has been able to develop the club and the commercials to what we have now and that deserves enormous credit. A few have noted that we could have gone in two directions when they bought in and I think as a commercial enterprise (and to a less successful degree a football club) we’ve gone up. In my view that transition was always a lengthy one. Without a wholesale buyout by an oil state, creating a club that can commercially compete is something that no doubt takes time and quite cautious management and planning. I’m grateful for that work.

The flip side to that view is we are a football club and we’ve not delivered success to a high enough level as a club. I accept we’ve had to be cautious at times over the years but that approach has often come with poor on field strategy and too many changes at a coaching level. In footballing terms we’ve been inconsistent and have lacked direction and focus.

For me, we’re at a turning point now and i want that direction and focus to be clear. I want consistent decisions based on backing the managers we have and spending in line with our commercials. That in my view requires a change of management at board level. Too much baggage is there, too many habits in how some people operate. Change is risky but I think we’re overdue some change and new impetus at the top of the club.

 

[Dazzazzad]

In for me. Looking at value of club in world football + results on the field since they took full control, it's been a meteoric rise against a frankly unfairly doped league.

Not to say there isn't plenty of criticism to be thrown their way. But I'd want to see how the next 5 years goes (we're only a couple years into the post Covid post stadium new spurs world) before concluding they can't take us up another level.

New owners might do that. It could also be a case of careful what you wish for. I'd rather stick than twist because I think what they've achieved goes so far beyond what I would have dreamed was possible.

 

[Spurzinho]

I can't stand Levy and his antics or ENIC and their blatant tightfistedness and more than the next fans but I'll just say this. Barry Hearn was not a universally popular chairman at Orient and when he sold out to that Bechetti fella it looked like the good times were back again. Absolute carnage and two relegations followed. Aston Villa fans were very, very tired of Doug Ellis and were delighted when the American fella turned up. As you'll remember things went down the porcelain throne pretty sharpish including a relegation. Forest, Cardiff, Hull*, Birmingham, Bolton, Sunderland... There are plenty more tales of woe with a change in ownership. Let's not say ENIC out flippantly like things can only get better. Sure, they might, but they might also get much worse.

So, yeh, ENIC out. But at any cost? Nah!


*Edited: It said Middlesborough, should have said Hull. Fixed.

 

[Dazzazzad]

It’s a valid point to bring up because it suggests that ultimately there’s a big disconnect between fans and their football club and no matter who the owners are people are never going to be happy. It tells me that there is something fundamentally broken with football and the way it exists in its current form at the highest level. Basically the sheer volume of money in the game as warped everyone’s view of the game and how they engage with it.

I know the FSG out crowd at Liverpool aren’t representative of their entire fanbase but it’s nuts that there is such vocal movement considering the success they had in the last 5 years under their stewardship. It feels like amongst the premier league that if your club isn’t winning it’s #managerout or #ownerout. I can’t remember a time where there have been so many vocal ‘chairman/owners out’ movements. Over the last couple of seasons there been Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, UTD, Us. To a lesser extent West Ham and Southampton?

It’s telling that 4 of those are top 6 sides. The pressure to win something is that fucking high that fans (and the clubs) will do anything to try and get it whether it’s fans demanding clubs spend spend spend or clubs trying to join Ill advised super leagues. I totally get our fans discontent but I think that this runs deeper than what many of us are letting on.

Well said.

 

[TonyK]

I inadvertently clicked 'in'; can I change this, please? @Rob

ENIC in, Levy out

What has Joe Lewis ever done for the football club that you want ENIC to remain?

 

[glacierSpurs]

The easier poll ever.

One of the top 10 richest clubs in the world but nothing to show for in the past 2 decades even with Mourinho at helm before who got sacked before a cup final says it all about the management.

 

[Karol]

It’s a valid point to bring up because it suggests that ultimately there’s a big disconnect between fans and their football club and no matter who the owners are people are never going to be happy. It tells me that there is something fundamentally broken with football and the way it exists in its current form at the highest level. Basically the sheer volume of money in the game as warped everyone’s view of the game and how they engage with it.

I know the FSG out crowd at Liverpool aren’t representative of their entire fanbase but it’s nuts that there is such vocal movement considering the success they had in the last 5 years under their stewardship. It feels like amongst the premier league that if your club isn’t winning it’s #managerout or #ownerout. I can’t remember a time where there have been so many vocal ‘chairman/owners out’ movements. Over the last couple of seasons there been Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, UTD, Us. To a lesser extent West Ham and Southampton?

It’s telling that 4 of those are top 6 sides. The pressure to win something is that fucking high that fans (and the clubs) will do anything to try and get it whether it’s fans demanding clubs spend spend spend or clubs trying to join Ill advised super leagues. I totally get our fans discontent but I think that this runs deeper than what many of us are letting on.

Again, I'm only interested in what is happening at our club, tarring all or many fans with the same brush of money warping everyone's view of the game is diversionary

I may have got the wrong end of the stick from your post but it seems to be making excuses for enic and Levy

 

[newbie]

My answer (ENIC out) is based on the fact that in 22 years, despite having generational talents on the pitch (Kane, Son, Modric, Bale etc) AND serial winners coaching the team (Mourinho and Conte most notably) we havent been able to get the team over the line in any competition so thats on ENIC IMO.

I think we won a Worthington cup, but o can’t remember it was so long ago

 

[HedgieSpur]

In for me. Looking at value of club in world football + results on the field since they took full control, it's been a meteoric rise against a frankly unfairly doped league.

Not to say there isn't plenty of criticism to be thrown their way. But I'd want to see how the next 5 years goes (we're only a couple years into the post Covid post stadium new spurs world) before concluding they can't take us up another level.

New owners might do that. It could also be a case of careful what you wish for. I'd rather stick than twist because I think what they've achieved goes so far beyond what I would have dreamed was possible.

With all due respect, if you’re voting in after 22 years and 1 trophy, what difference will the next 5 years make? I.e why is 27 years your tipping point?

Genuine question

 

[Dazzazzad]

With all due respect, if you’re voting in after 22 years and 1 trophy, what difference will the next 5 years make? I.e why is 27 years your tipping point?

Genuine question

Most "with all due respect" messages go on to be very disrespectful, but yours actually was, so cheers for that.

Because I view their stewardship in phases. After the stadium was completed, we entered the "at the big boy's table" phase, but Covid pushed that back a couple of years.

We've now started to really invest in the playing squad a lot and in managerial choices - it hasn't paid dividends yet but we're only a few windows into it. So I want to see if they can adjust to this next phase to get us winning some trophies and competing consistently.

I have also said previously that a) I don't view success as just winning trophies, particularly the likes of the league and fa cup and b) we've actually been in a position to win a lot more than we have. 1 trophy, 4 finals including the champions league, 2 legit title challenges, and 7 semi-finals. Sure, some of the blame for not getting over the line in some of those games is on them but re-roll the dice and we probably win a couple more trophies.

But even if we had won a couple more, it wouldn't really change my view THAT much. For me, the main thing is that we have a foundation that is able to compete against the best and most financially doped teams in the world. I think we have that foundation, and are now unlikely to revert back to a mid-table or relegation-fighting team, and that was the hardest step and the one that deserves the most credit.

I don't feel in safe hands when Levy appoints a new manager, but I do feel in safe hands that if we do appoint a bad egg that it doesn't doom us for a decade - we can bounce back pretty quickly.

 

[Dazzazzad]

The easier poll ever.

One of the top 10 richest clubs in the world but nothing to show for in the past 2 decades even with Mourinho at helm before who got sacked before a cup final says it all about the management.

And how did we go from an operating income of 9 million in 2006 to 134 million in 2021?

"one of the 10 richest clubs in the world" - as if this happened by magic.

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

exactly
Van dyke instead of Sanchez
Suarez
Missing out on Salah and Marne

A million left backs and right backs.

Not selling players and replacing fast enough!

Bad scouting and poor choices on the pitch.

Not to mention the obsession with “tactical managers”

The landscape has changed since most of the names you mention, so it’s not really valid. What might have made a big difference then, viably possible with our finances from then, would struggle to make a difference now.

Furthermore, no club is flawless with their player purchases, but alas, we have no margin for error and other teams that we compete with have large margins for error. They make equally bad purchases, but their owners seemingly have the room to get away with it. City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal et al have all spent big fees on players that ultimately turned out to be poor signings, but they are able to just keep flinging mud at a wall until it sticks.

That is 100% because of the owners able-ness, or willingness, to do so. Whichever it is, we are constantly told that our owners are NOT able to do so.

I’m also still amazed at the people saying ENIC as owners okay, but Levy out. Someone please tell me what they know about ENIC as owners/an entity outside of whatever Levy has done for the club ??? Why is it that ENIC are stable owners, but all the issues arise via Levy ? Why isn’t it that Levy is the stable owner that has done good, but that he’s also a massive pain in the arse that screws us ? They don’t need to be separated, and unless I see evidence to the contrary, then they shouldn’t because ENIC as it pertains to Spurs and the major decisions that have been made IS Levy - good and bad.

Outside of Levy it is a completely faceless entity with regards to us, and has an incredibly wealthy owner that is clearly not willing to impart money to help us out on the pitch.

 

[Metalhead]

I wouldn't mind ENIC in if Levy went and someone else took charge. However, between the options ENIC out means Levy is out.

That's pretty much how I feel.

 

[SandroClegane]

What has Joe Lewis ever done for the football club that you want ENIC to remain?

Took us from a club battling in mid-table, got us to be a European regular, built a world-class stadium and training ground, bought world class players.

I'd love to win trophies as much as the next guy, but we could easily be Everton, Villa, or Leeds, once proud clubs that are currently bouncing between the championship, relegation spots, and midtable.

 

[Metalhead]

In for me. Looking at value of club in world football + results on the field since they took full control, it's been a meteoric rise against a frankly unfairly doped league.

Not to say there isn't plenty of criticism to be thrown their way. But I'd want to see how the next 5 years goes (we're only a couple years into the post Covid post stadium new spurs world) before concluding they can't take us up another level.

New owners might do that. It could also be a case of careful what you wish for. I'd rather stick than twist because I think what they've achieved goes so far beyond what I would have dreamed was possible.

Two things though - it's great that the club is of a high value financially but that is not going to do anything for fans and the "be careful what you wish for" is not really a good enough reason anymore IMO. It doesn't have to be ENIC or financial ruin.

 

[daveduvet]

Trix has pointed out it’s the board that are a problem too in his opinion, so it sounds like we need a clean sweep!

The Sooty Show - School Trip GIF | Gfycat

Watch and share Sooty GIFs and Sweep GIFs on Gfycat

gfycat.com

 

[Wadec]

Out without hesitation.

 

[hescominghome]

Easiest choice of my life. Out

 

[rossdapep]

GET EM OUT...NOW

 

[HedgieSpur]

Most "with all due respect" messages go on to be very disrespectful, but yours actually was, so cheers for that.

Because I view their stewardship in phases. After the stadium was completed, we entered the "at the big boy's table" phase, but Covid pushed that back a couple of years.

We've now started to really invest in the playing squad a lot and in managerial choices - it hasn't paid dividends yet but we're only a few windows into it. So I want to see if they can adjust to this next phase to get us winning some trophies and competing consistently.

I have also said previously that a) I don't view success as just winning trophies, particularly the likes of the league and fa cup and b) we've actually been in a position to win a lot more than we have. 1 trophy, 4 finals including the champions league, 2 legit title challenges, and 7 semi-finals. Sure, some of the blame for not getting over the line in some of those games is on them but re-roll the dice and we probably win a couple more trophies.

But even if we had won a couple more, it wouldn't really change my view THAT much. For me, the main thing is that we have a foundation that is able to compete against the best and most financially doped teams in the world. I think we have that foundation, and are now unlikely to revert back to a mid-table or relegation-fighting team, and that was the hardest step and the one that deserves the most credit.

I don't feel in safe hands when Levy appoints a new manager, but I do feel in safe hands that if we do appoint a bad egg that it doesn't doom us for a decade - we can bounce back pretty quickly.

Ok, I understand where you are coming from, even though I have a diametrically opposite view.

??