Michael Dawson

[Vulcan10]

Some people just care too much about our players, get too emotionally attached. Fact is I just want Tottenham to win, don't care if Friedel or Dawson or whoever is a good lad and would die for the cause. If we get a better player in to replace someone, then bye bye. Ruthless, but its how its got to be.

Couldn't agree more, how I'd love to have that head case Suarez in the team right now. I'm all for discussion & constructive criticism, However I just think slinging abuse on forums etc is unnecessary, not because he's a nice guy but because he's given his all for the club for so long & all in all has been a great signing. We should show a little class in my opinion.
The day of a 6-0 defeat probably isn't the best time for reasoning however.

 

[jezz]

I personally like daws, been great to the club, and put in some great performances.
But i think chiri is better and would like to see some more of him in the defense.

 

[FinnYid]

Some people just care too much about our players, get too emotionally attached.

Well, some of our players have earned it throughout the years, where does the AVB love come from?

 

[LSUY]

I would never question his character ort he fact he is one of the more decent men to wear our shirt in recent times, it doesn't win you football matches though unfortunately.

Aside from Kaboul who would attempt to lead the defence on a regular basis? As talented as Vlad and Jan are neither come across as vocal leadership. Dawson's obviously done enough on the training pitch to not only convince AVB not to sell him but to retain him as captain.

 

[TheAmerican]

Dawson simply isn't meant for the high line. He doesn't have the pace, and continuously puts himself in a position further back from the other defenders. This leaves just him behind the final striker (who he keeps onside), ready to get burned on a 1v1.

This, and you can see that he doesn't command his line, which your experienced captain-centerback should do. Case example: the second goal today by Negredo.

part 1: Dawson is holding a deeper line that his teammates, allowing Negredo to sit in a pocket next to him, behind Walker

part 2: Dawson leaves his mark and picks up a free man in the middle, not communicating to his line to pull up, and not communicating to Walker to pick up Negredo (whom he left behind Walker, out of his line of sight).

part 3: Dawson reads the play and attempts to return to his mark, who has now moved slightly up, into an on-side position, but still out of the view of Walker, and in a pocket behind Dawson, and between Walker and Kaboul

part 4: Dawson now has a 1 v 1 with Negredo, who spins him and gets the free shot at goal.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

I absolutely love Daws, the man is a Spurs legend and I hope he retires here. You can tell how much he cares, just look at the tunnel cam when he cries walking off the pitch and into the dressing room. That being said, he just can't be starting these games vs the top 10 or so teams. I have no problem with him being played in games against the bottom sides and in the cups/Europa League. But he was so outmatched today, it got bad. Absolute schoolboy defending at times, he was largely responsible for goals 2, 3, 4, 5. Stabbing in uselessly, not tracking runs, being sold easily, bad distribution, really an awful game on his part. We need Vertonghen and Kaboul at CB if possible, with Chiriches the third option.

 

[Dembele'Disciple]

I've never seen him look so confused at the back. He could see gaps in front of him but couldn't fully understand why they weren't taken care of. Then he himself tried to handle the situation which ended with him being our of position half the time. Poor stuff at this level in all honesty

 

[thinktank]

I absolutely love Daws, the man is a Spurs legend and I hope he retires here. You can tell how much he cares, just look at the tunnel cam when he cries walking off the pitch and into the dressing room. That being said, he just can't be starting these games vs the top 10 or so teams. I have no problem with him being played in games against the bottom sides and in the cups/Europa League. But he was so outmatched today, it got bad. Absolute schoolboy defending at times, he was largely responsible for goals 2, 3, 4, 5. Stabbing in uselessly, not tracking runs, being sold easily, bad distribution, really an awful game on his part. We need Vertonghen and Kaboul at CB if possible, with Chiriches the third option.

After reading that intro I actually burst out laughing when you switched it up and went in on him.

True shit though. Lovely guy and heart of gold, but this team isn't for him anymore.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Dawson simply isn't meant for the high line. He doesn't have the pace, and continuously puts himself in a position further back from the other defenders. This leaves just him behind the final striker (who he keeps onside), ready to get burned on a 1v1.

This, and you can see that he doesn't command his line, which your experienced captain-centerback should do. Case example: the second goal today by Negredo.



View attachment 8627
part 1: Dawson is holding a deeper line that his teammates, allowing Negredo to sit in a pocket next to him, behind Walker
View attachment 8628
part 2: Dawson leaves his mark and picks up a free man in the middle, not communicating to his line to pull up, and not communicating to Walker to pick up Negredo (whom he left behind Walker, out of his line of sight).
View attachment 8629 part 3: Dawson reads the play and attempts to return to his mark, who has now moved slightly up, into an on-side position, but still out of the view of Walker, and in a pocket behind Dawson, and between Walker and Kaboul
View attachment 8630 part 4: Dawson now has a 1 v 1 with Negredo, who spins him and gets the free shot at goal.

Good breakdown, but nip back to Part 2 - why was there a completely unmarked man there, and two Spurs shirts apparently covering no-one in midfield? There's one player (can't make out who it is) who doesn't move more than a foot in all four of them stills, doing literally nothing to help defend that attack, and he's in a far better position to pick up that free man but he's ball watching? In this instance i would be f*cking furious with the midfielder if i was Dawson.

And i would also suggest that an international defender such as Walker should be a little more aware of what's going on around him in that situation, regardless of whether he hears Daws call it or not.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I've never seen him look so confused at the back. He could see gaps in front of him but couldn't fully understand why they weren't taken care of. Then he himself tried to handle the situation which ended with him being our of position half the time. Poor stuff at this level in all honesty

So it's bad that he tries to fill the gaps that other players left? If it hadn't been a drubbing with six goals going in, we'd have celebrated his dedication in the face of more awful work by our midfield - he tried to pick up their slack and because it didn't come off, he's the bad guy?

Fact is our midfield and keeper were far, far more of a liability today and put Dawson in a position he couldn't win whatever he did.

 

[LSUY]

View attachment 8629 part 3: Dawson reads the play and attempts to return to his mark, who has now moved slightly up, into an on-side position, but still out of the view of Walker, and in a pocket behind Dawson, and between Walker and Kaboul
View attachment 8630 part 4: Dawson now has a 1 v 1 with Negredo, who spins him and gets the free shot at goal.

Jan's playing Negredo onside in those last two pictures. If Jan pushed up then Negredo would have been offside in regard to the second last opponent (Kaboul). The IFAB say consideration has to be given to the attacker's head, body and feet in relation to the second last opponent and Negredo's head and body is marginally closer to our goal line than Kaboul's. It's a marginal decision but one that should have gone our way according to the rules. In that last picture Kaboul, Dawson and Walker are in a line that would have caught Negredo offside if Jan joined them.

Dawson didn't have a great game but that goal wasn't solely on him.

I don't understand the fascination with scapegoating certain players. The entire defence and Lloris didn't have a particularly good game yet they're hardly being criticised.

 

[E.L.Strict]

Hmm, I am taking your points on board Rss, you make some decent ones, but I just can't agree. I like dawson (maybe even love him) because he plays for us, if he played for Liverpool I guarantee most of us would hate him. Take his tackle out wide at the end of the Newcastle game which left their guy down. Does anybody like players that do that? I don't.

I would compare defenders to firemen and say that there are 2 kinds:

The first is the type like Ledley King who as firemen would conscientiously visit homes and check fire alarms, educate people etc, making sure that a fire never broke out.

The second are players like Carragher and Dawson etc, who as firemen would only start doing something once the house was totally ablaze, at which point they would rush in and narrowly save the people inside seconds before the entire house exploded. And the crowd of spectators would praise them because only 1 person died.

Dawson just gets praise for doing things that he wouldn't have had to do if he was a better defender, or that would be irrelevant if he was a better defender.

I get your point about scapegoating, as we have a lot of poor performers so far, but even those posters who post in defence of Dawson don't bother trying to claim he is a good footballer, because he isn't. It's all about how much heart, loyalty, determination and commitment he has.

He doesn't deserve to be blamed or abused, but he's not good enough, and I really don't think there is a single decent piece of evidence to suggest that he is.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

he was largely responsible for goals 2, 3, 4, 5.

This is frankly ludicrous, i almost voted it funny. Was it meant as sarcasm?

 

[dimiSpur]

#Dimispur - first disagree rating, yet i don't see any reasonable explanation. Omar at least threw in a picture to keep me amused.



Sorry, and you are? I mean, you are clearly a Premier League coach or manager, or a fellow pro at the very least, right? Perhaps you can explain why instead of just saying "deal with it" like some petulant teenager?

I'm just lurking tonight mate. Can't be arsed to discuss things. I just don't agree with what was said. Dawson's weaknesses are known to all. He's slow, won't beat many in a foot race (and in a high line that's a problem) and is always found wanting in the big games. He lost Dzeko last season and we lost in the final minutes. Dawson was at his best when with Ledley, who was good enough to make him look good and they did play well together.

The fact of the matter is Dawson is not good enough. The fact that he's a warrior is irrelevant, we might as well have George Groves at the back if being brave is enough to not warrant criticism. Yes Lloris fluffed his clearances but he's been our best player this season, so he can maybe be excused a bad game. Dawson's performance just reiterated what we know - he can't take us where we want to go.

I really don't wish to engage in any debate about him. I love him as a bloke and I've just seen the tunnel cam video from Man City and he was in tears at the end which is weirdly good to see. If it wasn't you I wouldn't even answer at all, but you asked why I gave the red rating so I ought to answer. I'm really in no mood for engaging in conversation. I just want to stay silent for a week. I don't mean on SC, I mean in life generally. Shocking day.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Hmm, I am taking your points on board Rss, you make some decent ones, but I just can't agree. I like dawson (maybe even love him) because he plays for us, if he played for Liverpool I guarantee most of us would hate him. Take his tackle out wide at the end of the Newcastle game which left their guy down. Does anybody like players that do that? I don't.

I would compare defenders to firemen and say that there are 2 kinds:

The first is the type like Ledley King who as firemen would conscientiously visit homes and check fire alarms, educate people etc, making sure that a fire never broke out.

The second are players like Carragher and Dawson etc, who as firemen would only start doing something once the house was totally ablaze, at which point they would rush in and narrowly save the people inside seconds before the entire house exploded. And the crowd of spectators would praise them because only 1 person died.

Dawson just gets praise for doing things that he wouldn't have had to do if he was a better defender, or that would be irrelevant if he was a better defender.

I get your point about scapegoating, as we have a lot of poor performers so far, but even those posters who post in defence of Dawson don't bother trying to claim he is a good footballer, because he isn't. It's all about how much heart, loyalty, determination and commitment he has.

He doesn't deserve to be blamed or abused, but he's not good enough, and I really don't think there is a single decent piece of evidence to suggest that he is.

A well thought out response, thanks, but i wonder how you feel about the fact that, had the midfield been doing their job, many of the situations Dawson finds himself in wouldn't come about and he would be better placed to react quicker, and would have a more clearly defined role on the pitch.

Perhaps it would benefit him to take the armband off - It seems that, as Captain, he feels responsible for picking up the slack left by the midfield bottling out/going missing/wandering off in random directions/standing still ball watching, which is what leaves him having to make up ground quite often.

I genuinely believe that, given some proper cover in front of him, Dawson will return to the form that got him up to the top table in no time but, until we find out what's wrong in the middle of the park, we're going to see our defence taking on far, far too much work and buckling under the strain. Other than Daws & Verts, we have one CB recovering from a significant injury and one virtually untested at any significant level - it's not a good situation at all, but not one that should have us turning on individual players.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I'm just lurking tonight mate. Can't be arsed to discuss things. I just don't agree with what was said. Dawson's weaknesses are known to all. He's slow, won't beat many in a foot race (and in a high line that's a problem) and is always found wanting in the big games. He lost Dzeko last season and we lost in the final minutes. Dawson was at his best when with Ledley, who was good enough to make him look good and they did play well together.

The fact of the matter is Dawson is not good enough. The fact that he's a warrior is irrelevant, we might as well have George Groves at the back if being brave is enough to not warrant criticism. Yes Lloris fluffed his clearances but he's been our best player this season, so he can maybe be excused a bad game. Dawson's performance just reiterated what we know - he can't take us where we want to go.

I really don't wish to engage in any debate about him. I love him as a bloke and I've just seen the tunnel cam video from Man City and he was in tears at the end which is weirdly good to see. If it wasn't you I wouldn't even answer at all, but you asked why I gave the red rating so I ought to answer. I'm really in no mood for engaging in conversation. I just want to stay silent for a week. I don't mean on SC, I mean in life generally. Shocking day.

appreciate the response, fella, hopefully when the squad starts getting its shit together the man will change your mind

 

[E.L.Strict]

A well thought out response, thanks, but i wonder how you feel about the fact that, had the midfield been doing their job, many of the situations Dawson finds himself in wouldn't come about and he would be better placed to react quicker, and would have a more clearly defined role on the pitch.

To a certain extent what you are describing is the way to deal with a liability. Identify it, then protect it. Yes the team could play better/be set up differently, and subsequently Dawson wouldn't be vulnerable. But wouldn't it just be better to have a defender who was less vulnerable full stop?

I genuinely believe that, given some proper cover in front of him, Dawson will return to the form that got him up to the top table in no time but, until we find out what's wrong in the middle of the park, we're going to see our defence taking on far, far too much work and buckling under the strain. Other than Daws & Verts, we have one CB recovering from a significant injury and one virtually untested at any significant level - it's not a good situation at all, but not one that should have us turning on individual players.

I just feel like the form which you are referring to is actually just him playing next to Ledley, or beast Kaboul from 11/12. When was the last time, with EVERYONE fit, that Dawson would have been first choice? 05/06? If King and Kaboul had stayed fit regularly Dawson would not have got a look in.

 

[kcmei]

Apparently after the game Dawson was the only Spurs player to approach and applaud our travelling support who were fantastic throughout. He might not be the most gifted player we have but I'd rather have a player that loves the club and appreciates the fans instead of slinking off down the tunnel within seconds of the final whistle after a thumping.

too bad he is still crap

 

[TheAmerican]

So it's bad that he tries to fill the gaps that other players left? If it hadn't been a drubbing with six goals going in, we'd have celebrated his dedication in the face of more awful work by our midfield - he tried to pick up their slack and because it didn't come off, he's the bad guy?

Fact is our midfield and keeper were far, far more of a liability today and put Dawson in a position he couldn't win whatever he did.

Someone else should be picking up that mark, you're right. But, Dawson needs to communicate to his line and either; (1) Tell Walker he is leaving his mark, and to take him, (2) pull the line up with him, or (3) communicate to another player to pick up the free mark.

This all starts with Dawson creating the space for Negredo. Remember, this all occured within a few seconds. Once he sat back as the last defender, he committed himself to commanding the line.

Jan's playing Negredo onside in those last two pictures. If Jan pushed up then Negredo would have been offside in regard to the second last opponent (Kaboul). The IFAB say consideration has to be given to the attacker's head, body and feet in relation to the second last opponent and Negredo's head and body is marginally closer to our goal line than Kaboul's. It's a marginal decision but one that should have gone our way according to the rules. In that last picture Kaboul, Dawson and Walker are in a line that would have caught Negredo offside if Jan joined them.

Dawson didn't have a great game but that goal wasn't solely on him.

I don't understand the fascination with scapegoating certain players. The entire defence and Lloris didn't have a particularly good game yet they're hardly being criticised.

If you look between 2 and 3, Jan is staying with his mark, which is well above the line. The pass to Negredo causes the other defenders to pull up. Jan is almost completely level with Kaboul and Walker, who are on a similar line. Lines are never perfectly straight. That's not the problem, though, as in the time-frame of second or two, Dawson left an onside mark out of other player's sight and area, and we got caught out.

Also, I'm not using him as a scapegoat. I am just pointing out that he doesn't seem to work in with the high-up line play that AVB implements, and he gets caught out frequently. As for the rest of the defense (and Lloris), they were pretty horrific. No one really seemed to give a shit about closing down or covering marks. City sat between our defenders all day, and got time to do what they want.

 

[Snarfalicious]

I just don't get how you make one player a scapegoat over the next. Literally everyone and everything was bad today. It was a collective effort of shitty play.