Next Manager Watch

[JCRD]

I compare the Poch situation with that of the current Klopp situation. Theyre shit now and so were/still are shit. Thyere sticking with Klopp as he had earned enough credit - I think Poch at the time deserved that kind of support and backing and that credit is still in the bank in my opinion. At the risk of making it sound like a movie sequel, there is 'unfinished business'

We need someone to come in and galvanise us all again. Poch is my absolute number one choice. He is someone who isnt going to think he is above us, belittle us and someone doing us a favour. yes we have a few still with us, but he is then the only one who can come in hitting the ground running, knowing what we need and want

Bring him the fuck back.

 

[Metalhead]

Well, all of the top coaches got outclassed tactically by someone at some point. Guardiola has been countless of times, by very limited managers.

I don't think the game has changed since he left. What changed? What does someone like Arne Slot has that he doesn't? I think that's just idea that keeps going around without any proof of it. I honestly don't a thing about Slot, and I'm quite certain 90% of this forum doesn't either. I'm not against him, but it feels to me some just want him because he's new and shiny. Not because he is more modern tactically.

My only concern with Pochettino is that a lot of players who were not good enough when he left, are still here. Like Dier, Davies, etc.

I would be happy with Poch or Slot. What I don't understand is the dissing of Poch as if he were someone who stopped coaching 30 years ago. A lot of you were happy with Mourinho who had already shown he was totally outdated

I think that some people genuinely don't want to see Poch's image/legacy tarnished by a failed return. Slot is someone that I'm sure that fans could take to - he comes across as an affable guy but without any emotional baggage.

 

[soflapaul]

Whatever it was the previous 15 times, it's the same now.

"Never in the field of sport has so little been written to so few by so many." Sir Winston A&C

 

[carlosspurs]

What we need is somebody who can coach a football team to play free flowing football. I'm not particularly pro DeZerbi but I think a whole load of managers would probably lose their cool with the cards Brighton were dealt yesterday.

Fair enough, but he came into the match with a clear want to have it out with Stellini. He in my opinion cost his team. When you read the quotes it’s completely nonsensical that he lost his mind based on basically nothing. Can’t have another manager who is so volatile. Plus let’s face it, if you or I wanted the spurs job, no way would we have behaved like that . He clearly doesn’t want the job.

 

[Darth Vega]

Well, all of the top coaches got outclassed tactically by someone at some point. Guardiola has been countless of times, by very limited managers.

I don't think the game has changed since he left. What changed? What does someone like Arne Slot has that he doesn't? I think that's just idea that keeps going around without any proof of it. I honestly don't a thing about Slot, and I'm quite certain 90% of this forum doesn't either. I'm not against him, but it feels to me some just want him because he's new and shiny. Not because he is more modern tactically.

My only concern with Pochettino is that a lot of players who were not good enough when he left, are still here. Like Dier, Davies, etc.

I would be happy with Poch or Slot. What I don't understand is the dissing of Poch as if he were someone who stopped coaching 30 years ago. A lot of you were happy with Mourinho who had already shown he was totally outdated

I mentioned my reservations about Poch in reply to someone else so I won't repeat myself entirely but the short version is:

- Poch sides even at his peak struggled when pressed, the difference now being very many teams do this in the league now compared to when he was here

- His relentless press, which is part of what made us special, is also done by many sides now. What once made us an exception is now a rule across the board, so something else needs to make up for it

They're in-depth so I won't go into them here for the sake of brevity but if you're interested you can check out a lot of good analysis online of Slot to see that his ideas on how to build from the back and progress the ball, while not flawless, are more modern than Poch's.

None of this is really a diss on Pochettino either. For my money there is no other manager in the world that could have done what he did with us at the time given the finances and stadium move, but it's possible to acknowledge that he was an outstanding coach for us but might not be the best candidate right now. Unfortunately, by going to the basket case that is PSG we haven't really been able to see if he's evolved as a coach because it's not a good yardstick to measure anyone by. If he'd have gone somewhere normal and been successful then I'd be far more comfortable with the idea.

Slot has his own question marks and downsides but then again so does every single manager we've been linked to, there is no perfect candidate.

 

[wrd]

That's a bold strategy, not sure how the fans will feel if on-field success means the wage turnover isn't the best in the league.

 

[Stamford]

Poch coming back looks increasingly likely. We have to insist he works with a DOF. We need a really clear strategy as a club now and not changing for each manager.

 

[Yiddo100]

Poch coming back looks increasingly likely. We have to insist he works with a DOF. We need a really clear strategy as a club now and not changing for each manager.

Where’ve you got that?

 

[crokey]

What's the point in spending 20 hours a week watching 2 matches, talking to mates, reading SC and all the other shit that goes with following a club in 2023 if not to get excited at the return of a guy who was 1 result away from being a club legend (if he isn't already).

It's only football, but if we are going to spend so much of our lives making it out to be more important than it is, then why not get a little fucking excited about the fairy tales that only come around once every god knows how many years.

Bring him home

 

[Bing]

I compare the Poch situation with that of the current Klopp situation. Theyre shit now and so were/still are shit. Thyere sticking with Klopp as he had earned enough credit - I think Poch at the time deserved that kind of support and backing and that credit is still in the bank in my opinion. At the risk of making it sound like a movie sequel, there is 'unfinished business'

I think the key difference is Klopp won things whereas Poch did not and that was ultimately the reason why Poch got the boot. We had the reputation even then of being serial b0ttlers, lacking in killer instinct and winner mentality.

From a fan persepctive, keeping Poch was the soft, sentimental choice. A difficult decision needed to be made for us to push on and finally win things and the club ruthlessly sacked Pochettino and replaced him with a proven, serial winner.

Of course we all know how things turned out. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[HedgieSpur]

Why does the next person need to know the club inside out? Poch didn't when he took the job. There's plenty of attacking managers available.

This man twice decided to threaten to leave before the biggest game of our clubs history. Sulked for a year and started acting weird in press conferences over nothing. Not to mention never making any subs and the occasional dissapeance of a promising youth player. I don't want another dose thanks.

I think some of you are Poch fans first, and Spurs fans second. I have to be honest I just don't understand any of you at all. Imagine singing Poch songs when he hasn't been here for years, have a head rattle.

A significant number of fans these days are wedded to managers and wont let go. Each to their own but I personally find it very odd

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I’m probably not going to be able to watch it but for anyone who is maybe interested Feyernoord play mid table RKC Waalwijk at 7pm tonight. It’s probably one of their last slightly difficult league fixtures of the season although I expect them to win comfortably.

 

[HedgieSpur]

I compare the Poch situation with that of the current Klopp situation. Theyre shit now and so were/still are shit. Thyere sticking with Klopp as he had earned enough credit - I think Poch at the time deserved that kind of support and backing and that credit is still in the bank in my opinion. At the risk of making it sound like a movie sequel, there is 'unfinished business'

We need someone to come in and galvanise us all again. Poch is my absolute number one choice. He is someone who isnt going to think he is above us, belittle us and someone doing us a favour. yes we have a few still with us, but he is then the only one who can come in hitting the ground running, knowing what we need and want

Bring him the fuck back.

Seriously have you actually read your post back? He's the only manager in the world who could come in and hit the ground running? Really?? Wow...

 

[C0YS]

I mentioned my reservations about Poch in reply to someone else so I won't repeat myself entirely but the short version is:

- Poch sides even at his peak struggled when pressed, the difference now being very many teams do this in the league now compared to when he was here

- His relentless press, which is part of what made us special, is also done by many sides now. What once made us an exception is now a rule across the board, so something else needs to make up for it

They're in-depth so I won't go into them here for the sake of brevity but if you're interested you can check out a lot of good analysis online of Slot to see that his ideas on how to build from the back and progress the ball, while not flawless, are more modern than Poch's.

None of this is really a diss on Pochettino either. For my money there is no other manager in the world that could have done what he did with us at the time given the finances and stadium move, but it's possible to acknowledge that he was an outstanding coach for us but might not be the best candidate right now. Unfortunately, by going to the basket case that is PSG we haven't really been able to see if he's evolved as a coach because it's not a good yardstick to measure anyone by. If he'd have gone somewhere normal and been successful then I'd be far more comfortable with the idea.

Slot has his own question marks and downsides but then again so does every single manager we've been linked to, there is no perfect candidate.

Pochs teams literally invite the press to create space further up. This often means we did struggle to break the press, because we would try and play through it. But its partly by design. When you do get through you get attacking chances. I dont think teams press more these days anyway. If anything teams are more compact. Most the big teams press much much less compared to 2018-19 where everyone wanted to play like german teams. Its true that now every team presses but most only moderately. No southampton anymore. Even liverpool press less and the changes in pressing helped liverpool win things.

Secondly, Pochs teams do press but outside of his first season it wasn't relentless. Far from it. From his second season his press was phased out. And even further so the season after. Same with what liverpool were doing. By the end the press was a part of our game but based on triggers. This approach to pressing is now normalised yes, but Poch imploying Bielsa like pressing wasnt tactically new or the entirety of his tactical play.

His main features I would argue were, building from the back, to the extent that even when gaining possessions his teams are happy to take it all the way back to the keeper and start again. The idea is simple. Play from the back the opposition gets stretched and there will be more space further forward. This involves defenders being brave, often stepping past pressers.

High defensive line, particularly when the ball has been developed from the back. The line is incredibly high right up to the halfway line, many reasons for this. The main reason for pressing btw is to prevent balls over the top. Not to win back possession. His teams also are happy to back the CBs on one on one situations against attackers.

Rotating forward players, and attempting to get attacking players playing very close to each other and centrally as possible. Poch teams actually play with 3 number 10s really. They occupy very central areas and rotate positionally depending on trained cycles, again designed to create overloads and space (by players moving you move defenders therefore creating space somewhere else on the pitch, this is one on one Bielsa stuff). Poch also believes, maybe contrary to Bielsa here, that attackers are actually more effective in central areas where they can do the most damage. Fullbacks are therefore very important as they are the only players really stretching the play.

Essentially Poch tactically is like a more pragmatic Bielsa. His teams are way more patient than Bielsa teams, and way less horizontal, but the basic tactical ideas are present. Obviously Poch is not purely a tactical manager. But I dont see anything particularly outdated or reason to think football has moved on from him. Far from it. PSG, where he couldn't really do what he wanted to, he still did very well in the CL considering the mess the team is and the draws they got. While they played a lot more functionally than what PSG currently are playing. There was little to suggest that football has moved on. And with resent problems in PSG his stock is quite high, actually higher than Naglesmann internationally (I know this is somewhat controversial but their records are remarkably comparable) and Poch will continue being on the shortlist for every big job that becomes available.

I am in two minds whether I want Poch back. And certainly other candidates ought to be considered but football really hasnt developed that much between 2018 -2023. Certainly not like what we saw in the late 00s and early 10s and most major recent development occured contemporarily to the time he was at spurs. Since he has left, if anything, we have seen a slight move away from pressing towards more mature pressing forms, the managers who do press non stop tend to do erratically in this league. The main change in football recently mind, has actually been a turn towards stable structures and trying to break play down (shithousing). I suspect this trend will continue and intensify. As football tactical trends tend to be circular in nature.

Pressing came to counteract possession style football, how do you counter pressing? Solid Structures, back 3 and long balls is how. Pressing reacted by only pressing at the right time. possession became more valuable once again. But most mid table teams in the PL are teams built on solidity and structure. In the PL Tottenham, Brentford, Fulham, Villa, Palace, Bournemouth, West Ham and Everton all built on solid structure first. The bottom 3 are all teams who are there because they tried to play pressing games, with leeds just above them. Top teams currently do well through playing possession driven football, Poch is possession driven. Most teams you play against do not press intensely. Most pressing teams actually have not had a good season.

 

[HedgieSpur]

Poch coming back looks increasingly likely. We have to insist he works with a DOF. We need a really clear strategy as a club now and not changing for each manager.

Did I miss something? Why is it increasingly likely?

 

[FloridaSpur]

I compare the Poch situation with that of the current Klopp situation. Theyre shit now and so were/still are shit. Thyere sticking with Klopp as he had earned enough credit - I think Poch at the time deserved that kind of support and backing and that credit is still in the bank in my opinion. At the risk of making it sound like a movie sequel, there is 'unfinished business'

We need someone to come in and galvanise us all again. Poch is my absolute number one choice. He is someone who isnt going to think he is above us, belittle us and someone doing us a favour. yes we have a few still with us, but he is then the only one who can come in hitting the ground running, knowing what we need and want

Bring him the fuck back.

He won nothing in five years .

Why do we want more of that?

As for "galvanizing" coincidently only Brighton had a worse record that last half year Poch was with us.

Poch win% was 54%
Jose: 51%
Conte: 54%

There's obviously more behind the stats, but Poch isn't the answer to our current situation'

The next appointment will be our fourth manager in four years, non lasting more than a season.

Rinse and repeating with a former manager would be simply regressive.

 

[Ruffinthepuffin]

A significant number of fans these days are wedded to managers and wont let go. Each to their own but I personally find it very odd

I agree, very odd indeed.

 

[nailsy]

Agree, but if you compromising and trusting the club has previously resulted in them buying clearly second-rate, bargain basement players and potentially cost the chance to win the title on two occasions, I could understand it.

Theres a middle ground between accepting second rate players and only settling for your first choice. If he'd given a list of four or five players he would accept for each position and then refused anyone else I'd have a lot more sympathy for him.

I mean you can find examples to suit both arguments.

Keegan and Dalgleish both flopped in their second spells.

Personally I think that Poch's first appointment was like lightning in a bottle, given the way Kane, Walker, Rose, Alli, Dembele, Vertonghen and Eriksen all emerged and/or flourished, then we signed a world class player in Son.

He was the perfect manager to work with that young group and get the best out of them with his high-pressing and paternal managerial style.

Our current squad doesn't have the same level of talent while Poch seems to have moved on from his super high-pressing style. The league is also a lot more competitive than it was back in 15-16, 16-17 so it would be much harder to match what we did back then.

He'd probably do fine, but unless he had instant big success whatever he were to do it would feel tinged with disappointment as he'd never be able to live up to the heights of his first tenure.

I wasn't exactly being serious. I wasn't suggesting that every time someone goes back to a club they'll be a success. I've got no idea if Poch would do well here again, but he's probably a learnt a few things after reflecting on his time here and at PSG. I wouldn't be against him coming back.

 

[nav007_2000]

He won nothing in five years .

Why do we want more of that?

As for "galvanizing" coincidently only Brighton had a worse record that last half year Poch was with us.

Poch win% was 54%
Jose: 51%
Conte: 54%

There's obviously more behind the stats, but Poch isn't the answer to our current situation'

The next appointment will be our fourth manager in four years, non lasting more than a season.

Rinse and repeating with a former manager would be simply regressive.

We had two managers after Poch that were notorious in winning trophies and they also failed.
If we can’t win a trophy, I rather watch attractive football.

 

[slartibartfast]

I've seen so many posts saying Conte, Jose and even Poch's style of football is outdated.
I'm just watching a Roy Hodgson pre match interview lol.

1.5 Has been lol