Ratings vs WBA

[npearl4spurs]

I don't know what Dembele most of you lot were watching today, I thought he did very well.

Please show me. Saw nothing to write home about, save the ball he played Clinton I believe.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Shit Kick Squared

We've all been here before, quite a few times, only then it was called the Britannia and the stripes were red. A team taught by the master in the art of shit kicking, a ref that seemed hand picked to suit the shit kickers, allowing late challenges everywhere, they even seem to be able to create their own anti football micro weather system

The only difference is this Spurs team is much happier going shit kick for shit kick with the best of them. Lets not kid ourselves, this was not a great performance with the ball, the omnipresent systematic shit-kickery made sure of that, and none of the team really shone, but at least this Spurs team doesn't allow itself to be shit kicked out of games.

Both goals were pretty poor goals to concede, Their defenders and ours (Dier and Walker) not covering themselves in glory. Vertonghen (particularly) and Walker both had really erratic games, making big mistakes but also both got vital blocks.

I think tactically the central triangle of Dier, Dembele and Alli really isn't particularly compatible, balanced or conducive to the type of dynamic, quick transition football Pochettino wants. I thought Dembele was probably our best player on the day just by virtue of the fact that he worked his bollocks off, saw more ball than anyone, made more tackles than anyone and was the most involved player on a day when everyone else was shitkicked out of their A or even B game, but he still hung on to the ball too long at times, allowing them to morph back into their 9/1 formation. Dier had his worst game for ages and Alli, goal aside was very poor, very anonymous, received the ball 12 times and made 9 passes in the second half and his pressing was pretty poor (0 tackles and 0 interceptions). He is not a "10" and I think a better balance of skills would be Eriksen (bit of composure and metronomity), Son (pace and directness) and Lamela (tricky unpredictability). Lamela, as ever, worked hard off the ball but was even less involved than Alli second half, and both were rightly hooked, as Eriksen and Kane were far more involved in the game. We created absolutely nothing of tangible quality today.

Also disappointing was how we seemed to shrink after we scored and lost control of the game for the remainder of the first half. That central trio of Dier, Dembele and Alli not really able to set tempo or facilitate control.

What I'm not understanding is why Kane seems immune to being subbed, not always because he's been poor, but just to change things up and rest him, and Pochettino's continued tactic of bringing N'Jie on and moving a knackered Kane back into midfield (or attacking midfield) behind him. Kane losing the ball doing his Messi impression on their D is annoying but not the end of the world, a knackered Kane doing his Messi impression nearer our half and losing the ball set up a couple of nasty counter attacks.

All's square in shit kicking and war.

Individual

Lloris - Superb reflex save.

Walker - A mixed bag. Done for the goal, ran the ball away stupidly a couple of times but also made a vital clearance and did a nice little double turn out of trouble.

Alderweireld - Decent enough.

Vertonghen - Like a turtle in a windsock at times. One or two vital blocks.

Rose - Decent

Dier - Laboured

Dembele - Worked really hard, saw more ball, made more tackles, tried to carry us forward (and sideways) quite a lot, but as ever lacked zip to just play a quick or visionary pass and often by the time he's released the ball the opposition are well set. I still prefer seeing him in the advanced midfield group than the CM2.

Lamela - decent without the ball, which in a shit kick battle isn't a bad thing, but contributed very little offensively.

Alli - Goal aside was poor and very ineffectual. And at times it;s like we're playing 442 with two very similar types banging around up there. He's not a "10" he's definitely better bombing into the box from deeper positions than playing that playmaking fulcrum role, and I don't think he presses as well as the other 3 forward players either.

Eriksen - was by far the most involved of the front players without managing anything incisive or creative.

Kane - Worked hard.

 

[glospur]

Kane and Dier turned in their worst performances in a long time, Dier in particular was shocking, but he's been brilliant enough this season that he's got some credits in the bank so he can be forgiven for one poor game. Both fullbacks inconsistent; they were beaten too easily at times but were absolutely brilliant at other times. Lloris was clearly our best, while Dembele was the only outfield player that put in a performance that would be ranked higher than a 7 IMO.

However, it's still a draw away from home against a side that can be tough to play against and is set up well to counter our style of play. There is some ridiculous and, frankly, embarrassing overreaction on this forum after one 'poor' (and in context, it's not even that poor) result.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

WBA beat L'Arse just recently.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Jesus, you have one bad game...

Yup. Because that's what this threads about mate. Performances in this one game.

 

[elDiablo]

The offensive quartet were very poor yesterday but didn't west Bromwich set up 541 with 4 cbs (3 in defence and Evans in cdm) that pretty much stayed within 10 yards of each all game? Never gave us an inch in and around their box.

Tactically the hardest game of the season. for us imo.

 

[walworthyid]

It's funny coming in here after some time has passed. Yes it was poor but not the disaster some people are making out. In the 1st half we dominated for long periods, probing and keeping possession in terrible conditions. If we had got another goal at that point we would have won comfortably.

I remember playing a game in wind like that and being 4-0 up at half time only to lose 5-4. The wind is a massive factor. They got a foothold and then got into our faces. They have decent experienced players and a decent experienced manager. We aren't just going to turn up and roll teams over because we are the flavour of the month.

Fact is we are 14 games unbeaten and playing the best football we have seen for a good few years.

For me, Lloris, Rose,Walker and lamela were decent. Vertonghen and Toby struggled. We just couldn't get any structure in the second half and the players lost their shape.

We move on.

 

[mkkid]

I thought verts looked terrified yesterday , everytime the ball was in the air.He knew he was going to get a battering.

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Shit Kick Squared

We've all been here before, quite a few times, only then it was called the Britannia and the stripes were red. A team taught by the master in the art of shit kicking, a ref tailor that seemed hand picked to suit the shit kickers and even the weather seemed to oblige them.

The only difference is this Spurs team is much happy going shit kick for shit kick with the best of them. Lets not kid ourselves, this was not a great performance with the ball, the omnipresent systematic shit-kickery made sure of that, and none of team really shone, but at least this Spurs team doesn't allow itself to be shit kicked out of games.

Both goals were pretty poor goals to concede, Their defenders and ours (Dier and Walker) not covering themselves in glory. Vertonghen (particularly) and Walker both had really erratic games, making big mistakes but also both got vital blocks.

I think tactically the central triangle of Dier, Dembele and Alli really isn't particularly compatible, balanced or conducive to the type of dynamic, quick transition football Pochettino wants. I thought Dembele was probably our best player on the day just by virtue of the fact that he worked his bollocks off, saw more ball than anyone, made more tackles than anyone and was the most involved player on a day when everyone else was shitkicked out of their A or even B game. Dier had his worst game for ages and Alli, goal aside was very poor, very anonymous, received the ball 12 times and made 9 passes in the second half and his pressing was pretty poor (0 tackles and 0 interceptions). He is not a "10" and I think a better balance of skills would be Eriksen (bit of composure and metronomity), Son (pace and directness) and Lamela (tricky unpredictability). Lamela, as ever, worked hard off the ball but was even less involved than Alli second half, and both were rightly hooked, as Eriksen and Kane were far more involved in the game. We created absolutely nothing of tangible quality today.

Also disappointing was how we seemed to shrink after we scored and lost control of the game for the remainder of the first half. That central trio of Dier, Dembele and Alli not really able to set tempo or facilitate control.

What I'm not understanding is why Kane seems immune to being subbed, not always because he's been poor, but just to change things up and rest him, and Pochettino's continued tactic of bringing N'Jie on and moving a knackered Kane back into midfield (or attacking midfield) behind him. Kane losing the ball doing his Messi impression on their D is annoying but not the end of the world, a knackered Kane doing his Messi impression nearer our half and losing the ball set up a couple of nasty counter attacks.

All's square in shit kicking and war.

Individual

Lloris - Superb reflex save.

Walker - A mixed bag. Done for the goal, ran the ball away stupidly a couple of times but also made a vital clearance and did a nice little double turn out of trouble.

Alderweireld - Decent enough.

Vertonghen - Like a turtle in a windsock at times. One or two vital blocks.

Rose - Decent

Dier - Laboured

Dembele - Worked really hard, saw more ball, made more tackles, tried to carry us forward (and sideways) quite a lot, but as ever lacked zip to just play a quick or visionary pass and often by the time he's released the ball the opposition are well set. I still prefer seeing him in the advanced midfield group than the CM2.

Lamela - decent without the ball, which in a shit kick battle isn;t a bad thing, but contributed very little offensively.

Alli - Goal aside was poor and very ineffectual. And at times it;s like we're playing 442 with two very similar types banging around up there. He's not a "10" he's definitely better bombing into the box from deeper positions than playing that playmaking fulcrum role, and I don't think he presses as well as the other 3 forward players either.

Eriksen - was by far the most involved of the front players without managing anything incisive or creative.

Kane - Worked hard.

More or less agree with this and particularly the inference that Alli and Dembele ought to be swapped.

Fuck, those WBA boys are big! Shit-kicking monsters indeed. But I don't think we need to radically review our expectations based on this game. Bournemouth beat Chelsea and Stoke beat City -- crazy old league. We just need to stick to what we've been doing and continue to, on balance, get better at it. Still think we're on target for a good finish.

 

[spurious1]

When I look at fixtures for teams around us in the league and see they are playing WBA away I always think they could drop points there.

It isn't just us.

But actually WB has a pretty rotten home record, other than against teams from North London...

 

[jamesc0le]

people advocating maybe lamela should have been dropped in favour of son however lamela is the kind of player you need in these games and should never have been subbed (he's used to it poor fucker but at 63 or whatever mins eeven he was shocked).

if anything it's eriksen that needs a rest and should have been dropped for son as a freekick n set piece specialist non shit-kicker is about as useful in these conditions as a [turtle in a windsock]

 

[degoose]

wow, there is so much shit in here and complaining it feels like i've gone back in time and AVB is our manager again.

 

[jamesc0le]

wow, there is so much shit KICKING in here and complaining it feels like i've gone back in time and AVB is our manager again.

fixd!

 

[idontgetit]

Jesus, you have one bad game...

Anyway, my ratings.

Lloris - 7.5

Walker - 7
Alderweireld - 6
Vertonghen - 6
Rose - 7

Dier - 5
Dembele - 6

Lamela - 5
Alli - 7
Eriksen - 6

Kane - 5.5

Thought a few players looked a bit tired out there, especially those like the CBs, Kane and Dier who have almost played every game and then flown out for internationals.

I don't think i gave Jesus a rating

 

[ilikeost]

I thought verts looked terrified yesterday , everytime the ball was in the air.He knew he was going to get a battering.

Probably had a lot more to do with the wind.

 

[steve]

Shit Kick Squared

We've all been here before, quite a few times, only then it was called the Britannia and the stripes were red. A team taught by the master in the art of shit kicking, a ref that seemed hand picked to suit the shit kickers, allowing late challenges everywhere, they even seem to be able to create their own anti football micro weather system

The only difference is this Spurs team is much happier going shit kick for shit kick with the best of them. Lets not kid ourselves, this was not a great performance with the ball, the omnipresent systematic shit-kickery made sure of that, and none of the team really shone, but at least this Spurs team doesn't allow itself to be shit kicked out of games.

Both goals were pretty poor goals to concede, Their defenders and ours (Dier and Walker) not covering themselves in glory. Vertonghen (particularly) and Walker both had really erratic games, making big mistakes but also both got vital blocks.

I think tactically the central triangle of Dier, Dembele and Alli really isn't particularly compatible, balanced or conducive to the type of dynamic, quick transition football Pochettino wants. I thought Dembele was probably our best player on the day just by virtue of the fact that he worked his bollocks off, saw more ball than anyone, made more tackles than anyone and was the most involved player on a day when everyone else was shitkicked out of their A or even B game, but he still hung on to the ball too long at times, allowing them to morph back into their 9/1 formation. Dier had his worst game for ages and Alli, goal aside was very poor, very anonymous, received the ball 12 times and made 9 passes in the second half and his pressing was pretty poor (0 tackles and 0 interceptions). He is not a "10" and I think a better balance of skills would be Eriksen (bit of composure and metronomity), Son (pace and directness) and Lamela (tricky unpredictability). Lamela, as ever, worked hard off the ball but was even less involved than Alli second half, and both were rightly hooked, as Eriksen and Kane were far more involved in the game. We created absolutely nothing of tangible quality today.

Also disappointing was how we seemed to shrink after we scored and lost control of the game for the remainder of the first half. That central trio of Dier, Dembele and Alli not really able to set tempo or facilitate control.

What I'm not understanding is why Kane seems immune to being subbed, not always because he's been poor, but just to change things up and rest him, and Pochettino's continued tactic of bringing N'Jie on and moving a knackered Kane back into midfield (or attacking midfield) behind him. Kane losing the ball doing his Messi impression on their D is annoying but not the end of the world, a knackered Kane doing his Messi impression nearer our half and losing the ball set up a couple of nasty counter attacks.

All's square in shit kicking and war.

Individual

Lloris - Superb reflex save.

Walker - A mixed bag. Done for the goal, ran the ball away stupidly a couple of times but also made a vital clearance and did a nice little double turn out of trouble.

Alderweireld - Decent enough.

Vertonghen - Like a turtle in a windsock at times. One or two vital blocks.

Rose - Decent

Dier - Laboured

Dembele - Worked really hard, saw more ball, made more tackles, tried to carry us forward (and sideways) quite a lot, but as ever lacked zip to just play a quick or visionary pass and often by the time he's released the ball the opposition are well set. I still prefer seeing him in the advanced midfield group than the CM2.

Lamela - decent without the ball, which in a shit kick battle isn't a bad thing, but contributed very little offensively.

Alli - Goal aside was poor and very ineffectual. And at times it;s like we're playing 442 with two very similar types banging around up there. He's not a "10" he's definitely better bombing into the box from deeper positions than playing that playmaking fulcrum role, and I don't think he presses as well as the other 3 forward players either.

Eriksen - was by far the most involved of the front players without managing anything incisive or creative.

Kane - Worked hard.

Pretty much agree with this. Dembele didn't shy away yesterday with or without the ball when others did both, so think those singling him out as the problem are way off the mark despite the fact he still has the tendency to hang onto the ball a bit.
I would've taken Alli off first as apart from the ball for Kane he went missing second half and we end up playing 442 as you say. Although quiet Lamela had started to grow into the game a bit and I would've given him another 10 minutes, moved him right with Son left and Eriksen in the middle.
Dier played like what he is, a big centre half playing centre midfield, was poor on the ball, didn't show for it enough especially second half and wasn't up to his usual defensive standard either.
The weakest part of Jan's game has always been in the air (which I guess is why he's not going up for corners this season) and the wind and Rondon caused him lots of problems.

As you say to play a bunch of shit kickers in shit conditions with a diabolical ref and dig in and get a point whilst turning in a below par performance is a massive pointer to the guts and determination this team has.
Lastly it was funny travelling back in the car and listening to Stan Collywank talking about Liverpool having a stronger squad with more depth and them being potential title challengers...how did they get on today?

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Sounds to me like the wind affected the game quite significantly. This would have suited the Pulis team.

Note Bindippers lost at Toon. Tough league.

 

[seanwhite1961]

When I look at fixtures for teams around us in the league and see they are playing WBA away I always think they could drop points there.

It isn't just us.

Usually that's the case, but already this season City, Chelsea, Leicester and Everton have put 3 past them there and won,

 

[stevenqoz]

There are several things of note about this game. In the first 20 minutes WBA sat back like so many other sides we visit. There was little sustained pressure on the ball by them and we were comfortable with it. You have heard before but the worst thing we did today was score because it changed the whole dynamic of the match. Suddenly WBA came, got amongst us causing chaos and in truth made us make more challenges than we have done all season. The ball was in the air, bouncing through the wind and our players were put out of their comfort zone. The wind and referee evened the contest until as BC said it was Stoke by another name and shirt. How does this result reflect on our progress? I believe we would have lost this last season. Eriksen, Lamella or Alli might have all been withdrawn earlier but others have said this was also Diers poorest performance to date. Lets move on and down Newcastle by playing our way.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Usually that's the case, but already this season City, Chelsea, Leicester and Everton have put 3 past them there and won,

L'Arse lost there very recently.