The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 18th December

[SlunkSoma]

Hoodle obviously !!

Hoodle...haha

 

[Barry Mead]

Guardiola coached Barcelona B to promotion in his first season in charge, he was very much a shining light in his early foray into coaching a football team.

Sherwood has been our Technical Co-ordinator and Head of Football Development, he has not coached a team. Perhaps you believe he coached our youth teams or something, he didn't - that was Chris Ramsey. He has no managerial experience, and certifiably less than Guardiola did when he was given the Barcelona job. Sherwood doesn't even have his full coaching badges, in case you didn't know that.

I understand that you're being defensive of Tim because you believe he should be given a chance, I'm not against that. But saying that our situation with Sherwood and the Barcelona situation with Guardiola are remotely comparable is like saying they were both equally good midfielders.

You are aware that the season Pep took over the B team that it was their first season in Tercera since the early 70's and what he won simply got them promoted back to the Segunda B league which is one down on the Segunda and two down on La Primera. That's not taking anything away from Pep as a coach and what he achieved later, but lets have a bit of perspective actually coaching Tercera for a year is hardly any significant prelim into management. He wasn't so much a shining light in coaching when he returned to Barca as an old respected, one who wanted to learn from his coaches and when he applied himself the club respected his attitude, thinking and application, but on his initial arrival he was just a one time quality player returning to an opportunity in a junior coaching role

As for Tim, yes I'm aware that he hasn't passed all his coaching badges but I'm also aware that Harry took him back in a coaching role and he has been at the club in coaching and overseeing capacities for around 5 years which compares pretty favourably to Pep's one season coaching the B team in Tercera

I really hope we get a more proven and experienced coach than Sherwood, so I'm not really arguing his case and I'm certainly not trying to detract from what Pep achieved, Barca are my local team and second only in my footballing affections to Spurs. I'm just pointing out that Guardiola was no more experienced to take over Barca than Sherwood is to take over Spurs. Guardiola proved a great choice and a natural and Tim could easily prove a schmuck, but experience wise if anything Sherwood at this stage has more experience than Pep did then. Pep certainly earned his admirers at Barca in his initial season even if he maybe wasn't the automatic first choice to take over the first team, but from all we hear Sherwood has his admirers at Spurs. I don't think we should necessarilly simply dismiss him as an option and particularly if we don't feel the current obtainable options are what we really want then I'll be happy for him to get a run in charge and see what summer brings

 

[yankspurs]

Well then guess Baldini will be gone soon since we all know Levy will never say no to his butt buddy Sherwood now. Ugh. #LevyOUT #SherwoodOUT #BaldiniIN #DeBoerIN

 

[jimbo]

You are aware that the season Pep took over the B team that it was their first season in Tercera since the early 70's and what he won simply got them promoted back to the Segunda B league which is one down on the Segunda and two down on La Primera. That's not taking anything away from Pep as a coach and what he achieved later, but lets have a bit of perspective actually coaching Tercera for a year is hardly any significant prelim into management. He wasn't so much a shining light in coaching when he returned to Barca as an old respected, one who wanted to learn from his coaches and when he applied himself the club respected his attitude, thinking and application, but on his initial arrival he was just a one time quality player returning to an opportunity in a junior coaching role

As for Tim, yes I'm aware that he hasn't passed all his coaching badges but I'm also aware that Harry took him back in a coaching role and he has been at the club in coaching and overseeing capacities for around 5 years which compares pretty favourably to Pep's one season coaching the B team in Tercera

I really hope we get a more proven and experienced coach than Sherwood, so I'm not really arguing his case and I'm certainly not trying to detract from what Pep achieved, Barca are my local team and second only in my footballing affections to Spurs. I'm just pointing out that Guardiola was no more experienced to take over Barca than Sherwood is to take over Spurs. Guardiola proved a great choice and a natural and Tim could easily prove a schmuck, but experience wise if anything Sherwood at this stage has more experience than Pep did then. Pep certainly earned his admirers at Barca in his initial season even if he maybe wasn't the automatic first choice to take over the first team, but from all we hear Sherwood has his admirers at Spurs. I don't think we should necessarilly simply dismiss him as an option and particularly if we don't feel the current obtainable options are what we really want then I'll be happy for him to get a run in charge and see what summer brings

Yep, Barca are my next in line too. We're down to opinions, my opinion is that Tim's experience is nowhere near Pep's at the same point in their careers because under Harry he was nowhere near the first team and doesn't have all his badges. Whereas Pep actually managed a team, albeit in very favourable circumstances.

I think managing a team to success represents more experience than being a fringe coach of our youth set up. We're clearly never going to agree so I'll stop clogging up the thread. I didn't really intend to get into this depth of debate but it's been interesting to think about.

But one last question to ponder in the comparison: if you're Christian Eriksen and Pep Guardiola gives you a piece of advice would you listen? I think the answer is yes. Now imagine it's Tim Sherwood giving you that advice, suddenly I'm not so convinced.

 

[mill]

Yep, Barca are my next in line too. We're down to opinions, my opinion is that Tim's experience is nowhere near Pep's at the same point in their careers because under Harry he was nowhere near the first team and doesn't have all his badges. Whereas Pep actually managed a team, albeit in very favourable circumstances.

I think managing a team to success represents more experience than being a fringe coach of our youth set up. We're clearly never going to agree so I'll stop clogging up the thread. I didn't really intend to get into this depth of debate but it's been interesting to think about.

But one last question to ponder in the comparison: if you're Christian Eriksen and Pep Guardiola gives you a piece of advice would you listen? I think the answer is yes. Now imagine it's Tim Sherwood giving you that advice, suddenly I'm not so convinced.

Or AVB?

 

[Kirayid]

Yea, no chance that happens, UEFA would see right through the ruse and surely you can't have a non-coach doing blatant coaching tasks like giving orders and by association dressing room talks and tactical assignments. Or would you have Ramsey do all that?

I think Hyypiä started doing his pro license last season but was the head coach for
Leverkusen. Lewandowski was the assistant who had the proper licences.

 

[Breezer]

Yep, Barca are my next in line too. We're down to opinions, my opinion is that Tim's experience is nowhere near Pep's at the same point in their careers because under Harry he was nowhere near the first team and doesn't have all his badges. Whereas Pep actually managed a team, albeit in very favourable circumstances.

I think managing a team to success represents more experience than being a fringe coach of our youth set up. We're clearly never going to agree so I'll stop clogging up the thread. I didn't really intend to get into this depth of debate but it's been interesting to think about.

But one last question to ponder in the comparison: if you're Christian Eriksen and Pep Guardiola gives you a piece of advice would you listen? I think the answer is yes. Now imagine it's Tim Sherwood giving you that advice, suddenly I'm not so convinced.

If Sherwood gives Eriksen the freedom to play and we pick up a few wins over Xmas you still think they won't listen to his advice?

 

[jimbo]

If Sherwood gives Eriksen the freedom to play and we pick up a few wins over Xmas you still think they won't listen to his advice?

I think it would take a lot more than that, yes. If, say, he proves himself capable for the rest of the season then I would expect/hope the players would listen to him when things go wrong. At the moment things are going wrong and I'm not at all convinced he can lead us out of it, not because of his inherent abilities but because of the particular mess we have gotten ourselves into.

Or AVB?

That's why I think we need an experienced manager to get ourselves sorted.

In summary, he might be the right man in the future but this feels very much like the wrong time to be going down this road.

 

[Barry Mead]

Yep, Barca are my next in line too. We're down to opinions, my opinion is that Tim's experience is nowhere near Pep's at the same point in their careers because under Harry he was nowhere near the first team and doesn't have all his badges. Whereas Pep actually managed a team, albeit in very favourable circumstances.

I think managing a team to success represents more experience than being a fringe coach of our youth set up. We're clearly never going to agree so I'll stop clogging up the thread. I didn't really intend to get into this depth of debate but it's been interesting to think about.

But one last question to ponder in the comparison: if you're Christian Eriksen and Pep Guardiola gives you a piece of advice would you listen? I think the answer is yes. Now imagine it's Tim Sherwood giving you that advice, suddenly I'm not so convinced.

In terms of advice it's a bit hard to say because you would need to put yourself in the mind of a young Danish player getting advice off of someone pretty new to coaching. The problem is disassociating yourself from the Pep we now know and instead how he would have seemed to a young player that maybe didn't know much about him as a player and with very little to know about him as a coach.

Now to me Pep was a bigger name player than Sherwood in his playing career and you could argue that as such any advice given by Pep might be taken more seriously than from Sherwood, but to be fair to Sherwood he's got something none of our current players have-a PL winners medal and he was captain of that team, so I would imagine any young player would treat either's advice with huge respect.

As for coaching badges well it's a funny thing but some great coaches never had them, the compulsory obligation is a comparatively new thing and no doubt they serve a purpose, but I would imagine a lot of those that pass with flying colours do not necessarily make the best coaches or managers around. I would say that having all the badges needed doesn't make you a better coach than someone else, but simply shows that you have gotten through the various course needed to achieve the badge.

 

[spud]

Why the fuck is everybody talking about the relative merits of Sherwood vs Pep Guardiola?

What the fuck has it got to do with ITK?

EDIT: please don't answer that. I couldn't bear it if somebody tried to explain the absurd.

 

[Pedro]

Math................honest.........but done without the use of a calculator.

S

 

[yankspurs]

Why the fuck is everybody talking about the relative merits of Sherwood vs Pep Guardiola?

What the fuck has it got to do with ITK?

EDIT: please don't answer that. I couldn't bear it if somebody tried to explain the absurd.

Honestly this whole debate is driving me to drink. Reading this is so absurd, I cant take it anymore. I hate everything.

 

[Pedro]

Ok, pinch of salt and all that, but everything I'm reading on here, everything I've heard intetim say, everything I saw him do to our team in the last match makes me dread him getting the job for any length of time. I really just want the guy gone. Might sound harsh, but I can see things spiralling out of control very quickly.

If we get rid of baldini, keep Defoe and Tim, then levy has lost his fucking mind. Baldini got us some great players that are not being used properly. Like another thread points out, eriksen, soldado and lamela haven't started a game together yet, that is insane, they should be 3 of the first names on the team sheet and let them bed in by playing. Praying that fdb can be convinced.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Why the fuck is everybody talking about the relative merits of Sherwood vs Pep Guardiola?

What the fuck has it got to do with ITK?

EDIT: please don't answer that. I couldn't bear it if somebody tried to explain the absurd.

You might want to tone the language down a bit.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

S

Not so my friend, not so.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There is a bit to pull apart from Ali Z's stuff though:

'AVB - the result gave the chairman the opportunity he was waiting for and maybe AVB too , he never even negotiated his exit just accepted what was on offer.'
Perfect storm: Andre wanted out, Levy had hit the wall. Still think Andre quit.

'AVB approved every single purchase in the summer, although some were Baldini recommendations.'
Obviously he wanted Hulk et al, but would have been informed of other targets & signings. Standard practice.
'The club always intended to ease Lamela in and knew he would take time to settle.'
Has been the case
'As has been said before AVB wanted Hulk and Villa in the summer we failed him on this, never even tried with Hulk and when in pole position with Villa waited and negotiated until Athletico stole him, Levy at his best penny pinching.'
Villa was happy to stay in Spain for a progressive team. Some ITK said we were never even close.

'Sherwood wants the job on his terms, including deciding transfers and removal of Baldini, one will go at the end of this.'
Maybe. Hardly think that Tim has enough clout to make big demands. Sherwood seems slightly surprisingly out of the loop. Listen to his interviews and he's quite candid but does not appear as shrewd as you'd think. I hardly think calling out Levy is gonna be a successful strategy.
'Currently we have 3 short term possibilities, all have issues for one reason or another.'
Makes sense, as the good appointments are doing other things. Also kinda suggests Sherwood isn't likely. Sadly most of the firefighters are busy too. Would be surprised, nay astounded, if Levy caved in and just gave Sherwood carte blanche.

'Board are in a mess, nobody lined up, loads of names thrown about by Agents, not sure where to jump.'
Of course there's nobody if this wasn't planned or Andre quit!
'What is clear is we have no long term philosophy or plan'
We did have a plan, but he just hightailed it out of town.
We do have a long term philosophy, it's just difficult to meld it to a disappearing coach.
We have a training centre, plans for a stadium, a good youth set-up, a chairman who is committed to the club, REALLY! It's just, again, our future successes are vitally linked to making the right appointment. And that is something that might not come about quickly. All the while we need to somehow endeavour to finish 4th.

I don't envy Levy, it's a right palaver.

As I was saying…..

 

[Gedson100]

As I was saying…..

...and I was dismissing Quite anti-Levy from Ali Z too.

Still think that control freak Levy isn't gonna be held ransom by the demands of Sherwood.
But it really is difficult to assess what's going on when Sherwood is out front coming across as a far from shrewd operator, Baldini is AWOL and Levy ain't saying nuttin'.

I retain the hope that Levy can refloat the Tottenham Titanic, but it's getting quite cold down here on the seabed.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

...and I was dismissing Quite anti-Levy from Ali Z too.

Still think that control freak Levy isn't gonna be held ransom by the demands of Sherwood.
But it really is difficult to assess what's going on when Sherwood is out front coming across as a far from shrewd operator, Baldini is AWOL and Levy ain't saying nuttin'.

I retain the hope that Levy can refloat the Tottenham Titanic, but it's getting quite cold down here on the seabed.

He sacked Comolli because Redknapp dictated he wouldn't work with a DOF.

 

[Gedson100]

He sacked Comolli because Redknapp dictated he wouldn't work with a DOF.

Aye, but Redknapp was coming in with at least some credentials and bargaining power. And Levy needed him.

Sherwood is already on the payroll and can be jettisoned back to 'Technical man' quick smart if he stamps his feet too loudly. I have doubts that Sherwood would give away his cushy number with us too, unless he genuinely feels like this job is his to lose.

We know little of Baldini's relationship with anyone but you'd presume that Levy is at least pretty supportive of the work he has done given that he allowed him to spend so much so soon.

Plus Sherwood can say what he likes about signing players; we're unlikely to do much of that until at least the summer, and even then the buck will stop at Levy, as ever.

 

[markieboy]

If Baldini wants to keep his job,he will need to convince Levy on one of his men.
If Levy wants someone else and they don't want to work with a DOF...............Baldini bites the dust.
I would imagine that Franco is busting his balls to whisper sweet nothings into Levys ear.