The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The mp3 Edition! 29th July 2014

[lol]

not worried if we drag this out. we have all the leverage. besides, players like MS and JR already know the system, the gelling part will be much quicker

 

[Gb160]

The situation with southhampton is bizzar so although i doubt they will be trying to say no more outs, Im not totally convinced.

Me neither, this is just to force transfer requests from the players, and I expect that to happen quite soon from Schneiderlin....I think Jrod might stay for another season.

 

[robertgoulet]

All down to the reaction and desire of the players now. I can't see Schneiderlin being happy to stay after who they'e sold.

If transfer requests are forthcoming we're definitely still in with a reasonable shout.

Agreed. Could see Rodriguez sticking for a bit simply because he won't be ready to play anyway, he may bide his time until the January window. MS needs to push if he wants out, though.

 

[Gedson100]

I could live without either but would really rather that any failures in these deals are coming from the Saints end.
Levy needs to avoid antagonizing Poch by 'trying' and failing to buy players he wants. It would be good if our entire transfer unit sung from the same sheet this summer.

 

[MunkoSpurs]

I hope we don't overpay for either player if we do get them. If their chairman is playing hardball then I think we should either pressure the player to kick up a stink or just move on to other targets. He's not the only player in the world that can break up the play and pass forwards. In fact, we have 2 in our squad already in Sandro and Capoue.

Schneiderlin is not worth more than £18 million IMO and Rodriguez is worth less than that.

Agree with this, apart from pressuring a player to kick up a stink.

 

[Jamturk]

Me neither, this is just to force transfer requests from the players, and I expect that to happen quite soon from Schneiderlin....I think Jrod might stay for another season.

What does a club gain and a player lose through handing in a transfer request?

 

[Mr Pink]

Agreed. Could see Rodriguez sticking for a bit simply because he won't be ready to play anyway, he may bide his time until the January window. MS needs to push if he wants out, though.

Yep. Think we'll have to pay a big fee for MS but we'll get him in the end and Rodriquez will be left on ice until January or the following summer.

 

[CockOnBall]

Maybe. It depends on just how much Schneiderlin wants to leave.

Chambers, Lallana etc all wanted to leave. They still got big fees. I can't see them selling Scheinderlin for less than 20m.

 

[danielneeds]

In the end neither player is absolutely top of my list of dream signings, so won't slit my wrists if they don't end up coming, but they clearly are key to Poch, and to see another manager not backed in his choices by Levy would leave a bitter taste.

 

[Gb160]

What does a club gain and a player lose through handing in a transfer request?

Club gains money and pr, player loses bonus

 

[kitchen]

They've been sniffing around Clasie, so if they start asking silly money for Schneiderlin, we should just buy Clasie instead. Really like what I've seen of him.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Wow. Better stop getting that name printed on my shiny new top.

Will have to make do with schnide

 

[Yorkville Spur]

I'll be disappointed if we miss on Schneiderlin. He's exactly what we need. I'll be disappointed for him too since this is a great opportunity for him. The right club at the right time with the right manager. I'm going to be try to be optimistic that this will all work out.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

What does a club gain and a player lose through handing in a transfer request?

Financially; the player forfeits any payments for when he is sold on the clubs initiative.
PR; the club can point to the player, and place most of the guilt for the exodus on players "who desire a short cut to CL".

 

[YiddoJames]

Listened to Talksport interview just now.

When asked if there had been bids for the two players the Soton chairman didn't answer directly, appearing to avoid the question. Not sure if ITK has said bids actually made yet?

His reply to the question 'have there been bids?' was 'They will be playing for Soton on Sep 1'.

That was it, very short reply. He didn't elaborate. They didn't push him. He seemed to want to evade the issue of bids.

He also made comment about there being a 'tipping point'. Wasn't clear if he meant they could accept bids still if fee high enough or if he meant Soton have reached tipping point with sales, i.e. they won't be selling any more.

 

[carpediem991]

Schneiderlin should start training with us. Worked wonders for Davies

 

[Ossie85]

Pretty extensive ITK from Southampton about players and board, but worth the read

Crab Lungs
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I've taken a lot of stick on here for my viewpoint over the past few months... That's fine, I can accept that but now can any of you finally see what's happening here? I've PM'd some people on here with some of the stuff that I have been told already and there's plenty more to come. I'm part tempted to blab it all out now as, just as I was typing a PM to someone today the JR and MS story broke... and that was what was the content of my PM - the future of those two. Oh well, lost some ITK credibility there. Seriously though, I haven't enjoyed any of this happening and I can safely say that those worried have a damn good reason to worry.

So, onto the juicy stuff... I'll try do this in sections and keep updating it as I go...

Cortese Leaving/Direction Of Club

Anyway, you may not like to hear this but yes, everything went to complete sh1t when Cortese left. It was never "business as usual". The figurehead who sold the club to Lovren, Osvaldo, Wanyama and the other ambitious members of our existing squad took all the drive and ambition with him. Like him or not, he wanted to push us further and the players believed in that vision, that's what motivated them to join or in some cases, stay when they could have moved on a lot sooner.

The official line is that KL wanted NC to have more accountability to his actions - that's fair enough. After all, it's technically her club and her money. The relationship between the two had been fraught for a while with NC wanted to go in one direction and KL, maintaining a small interest in football matters but a larger one in financial matters wanting to go another. Evidently, this would only lead with a parting of ways and one winner whilst ourselves and Cortese are left as the losers in this whole sorry saga. Oh, and Les Reed is doing alright, too - then again, he was never going to rock the boat with the cushy number he had. "Yes Kat, no Kat, three bags full Kat".

The appointment of Krueger has spectacularly backfired - he was meant to be the figurehead who "talked the talk" whilst quietly, behind the scenes, things were being scaled down and the goalposts shifting. As soon as NC left, it was never our intention to "walk the walk" too - only to allude to it whilst slowly dampening and managing fans expectations. As Guan said, he was reeled back in and Reed was wheeled back out. To be honest though, it doesn't matter who releases statements now as it's been proven - it's all bullsh1t.

Finances

I need to underline something else... there is nothing wrong with the club financially. The term that Hofstetter used was to discredit NC and NC hasn't released anything into the media about players leaving or tried to unsettle them. They did have a lot of respect for him and wholly supported the direction of the club under his tenure. NC did that interview after he left because he knew what was coming.

We are one of the healthiest clubs in the Premier League and even more so now to the detriment of our playing squad. We won't hugely over budget with the training ground and yes, NC was carefree with the cash during his time here but despite this, we were in healthy, normal position. It's not a Pompey or Leeds situation and the wage budget sits well within the structure. We've not been overstretching nor were careless with managing them. We were absolutely fine and in a position to add to our squad after an equal best-placed finish under Pochettino last year.

Possible Sale Of Club

I don't know for sure but it's rumoured that KL wants to make up the difference in her valuation with player sales... whether that's the case, I'm not sure but no-one was willing to pay the asking price over the last few months so a reduced price might see a few interested parties come to the table. Once she's stripped the club bare and reinvested the bare minimum, that is, to keep us whatever is viewed as "competitive".

Adam Lallana

Adam, as club captain, asked numerous times on behalf of himself and the players about the plans for this season from Feb/March onwards. Everyone wanted to know for sure that the "project" was still alive. At first he was told "everything will carry on as normal" as if Cortese was still there. Quietly, the scenery was shifting and Adam and the players recognised this. In addition to this, the situation surrounding the managers future also compounded matters and it wasn't before long that the squad began to wonder what was going on and what direction the club was going in.

Adam did try but like everyone else, failed to get a conclusive answer to his questions. Towards the end of last season, he'd already been lined up to join United but with Moyes being sacked that deal fell through. Later, Liverpool's interest surface and despite AL's attempts to deal with the situation maturely he was messed around and he left on a very sour note. That was never his intention, likewise it was never the intention of Lovren, too. In fact, none of the players were particularly itching for a move until Cortese, then Pochettino left and the whole continuation of the "project" was left clouded in mystery.

Players (ex and soon to be ex-players)

There are no clauses in any of the players contracts. They requested to leave - why though?

In January, the club were well aware of the Shaw interest and were already in discussions with potential suitors. This was to be the ONLY planned sale under Cortese and preparation for the new season was already being discussed between NC, MP and other staff.

With the plummeting depth in morale due to a lack of communication from the top about the directions and ambitions of the club, the players obviously talked amongst themselves and saw no future here unless they got reassurances. Like Adam, they got lip service if they were lucky or nothing at all. You only have to look back at previous comments in the press from the players over the past few months where they're hinting that they didn't know what was going on and that they'd be happy to stay if the club focus and ambition was still the same. Instead, they got silence.

That said, there are many factors in their decisions to leave and in some cases, intrinsically linked. The Pochettino effect, clubs direction, suitors and possibility of European football, raises in salary BUT it's worth knowing that before Cortese left, all were very settled and happy and many were contented with the progress being made. Sure, they were ambitious but that ambition simply mirrored that of their chairman and manager. To keep them, we'd have to align our ambitions with theirs and we didn't.

Make no mistake, apart from Shaw and the sentimental sale of Lambert (who, incidentally, wanted to finish his career here otherwise), many of the sales and impending sales were avoidable. How? By matching their ambitions. By retaining their teammates. By retaining and backing the popular manager first and foremost would have given us the best possible opportunity to keep a hold of those players.

I was just typing a PM today to someone about the J-Rod, Schneiderlin situation when the news broke but yes, they're next and won't be the last.

The morale of the team was further damaged by the outgoings after Shaw's sale and with the lack of the communication about the direction of the club many decided they'd have enough. As mentioned before, their ambitions aligned with that of the previous chairman and without the same drive/figurehead/ambition as previous then it was only natural they'd instruct their agents to look elsewhere. The treatment some of the players received during the period where potential suitors were circling was shambolic, too. The board acted amateurishly, refusing to take calls from players and making it as difficult as possible to communicate with them about the clubs intentions. The whole trust relationship broke down unsurprisingly and that's we've had what seems like toys being thrown out the pram. It wasn't. It was the frustration seeping out of the players at the club after many months of not-knowing.

Yes, Cortese really was the glue that kept it all together.

Worth taking notice that despite all the hatred towards the outgoing players, how gracious have they all been since they left, including Pochettino. Most have all thanked the fans and the club for their time and memories and in the case of our home-grown players, the development of them as players. They'll remain classy as they were brought up "The Southampton Way" - the sad thing is, there is no way any more.

Pochettino

Mauricio and his staff were settled and more than happy to stay. Sure, he's got ambitions but he'd grown close the players and was enjoying his work. The subsequent power shift threw that all up in the air and he was talked round from resigning in January, a lot of it was out of loyalty to the players. We've seen a lot of stuff on here about him being shifty and disloyal - he wasn't. He seeked assurances about the following season and was rebutted, like Lallana and the other players. Reed and Krueger maintained they were in control but weren't. Pochettino decided after considerable time waiting to talk about the new season and the strategy for it to look elsewhere.

By the time Spurs had shown an interest, our board then panicked and offered him a MEGA deal to stay and all the funds from the sales of any players. He told them where to go - he was willing to accept 1-2 departures but he got no guarantees that there wasn't going to be any more. He wanted to decide his playing squad and with him staying, we would have been in a much more persuasive position. Additionally to this, Pochettino had already put a lot of work in and identified players that he'd have liked to have been brought in for the following campaign but was told there was no guarantee on what budget he'd get and whether we'd pay the money for them.

For him, the "project" was dead. No assurances were forthcoming when he asked and by the time the board realised he was in the sights of Spurs, his mind was already made up - and with that, so was many of the other players minds too.

Irrespective, MP and his family continue to live in Southampton and are due to move into a new place in OV.


Koeman

RoKo was aware of the Lambert, Lallana and Shaw sales but had no intention of losing any more players. He was promised a significant amount of money to rebuild the team in his style but did not sign up for a mass exodus. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts. So far, he's kept a dignified silence but I wouldn't be too surprised if the rumours of his grumbles behind the scenes are true.

RoKo was identified as the correct choice after his work with a young team on a shoestring budget a Feyenoord and seemed a perfect fit. That said, he didn't sign up for this. At the moment, he's likely receiving a lot of fluff talk from the powers that be about reinvestment. He should be very, very suspicious right now.

Irrespective of this, the Prem's a good place for him to be "seen" and I'm sure he'll make the most of his opportunity if given a fair crack of the whip. He didn't sign up for this though, that's for sure.

Cork & Fonte

In May, there were new contracts on the table for both players (still Pochettino in charge). However, these offers were withdrawn after the rumoured instruction that all the players were for sale.

Training Ground

We were always going to continue with the finishing of the training ground; the work there was never going to be halted. It's seen as an asset in any potential future sale and with the sales of Chambers, Shaw and Lallana from the very place those players were developed could be viewed as prestigious and potentially noteworthy to anyone interested in buying the club.

Summary

So where does that leave us after all this? With a threadbare squad of kids, unwanted players and established pro's with just 2 weeks or so until the Premier League season starts. I did mention a few months back of a domino effect and if you trawl my posts, you'll see that I had often spoke of this (albeit cryptically, much to many of you's annoyance).

Expect one possibly two players in this week in attempt to placate the well-placed hysteria surrounding the club but also expect more to follow too. We're pinning our hopes on some new acquisitions, a quick-gelling period and untested and quite frankly, ill-prepared and clearly not-ready youth team players who will be hastily thrown into Premier League football before they're even ready.

The problem is, with the clear lack of ambition with the sales has put a lot of players off and with the obviously huge intake of cash, it's also driven up the price of a lot of our targets as well. We've got bids in for a lot of players but we're nowhere near the valuation of many of the players because other clubs know we've got cash to burn. It's left us in a very difficult situation and it'll be quite remarkable if we finish mid-table this year, let alone anywhere higher. There's a lot of p1ssed off people right now, many of them staff and players who share YOUR frustrations. The stripes, the fan-friendly letters... it's all fluff. Is there a vision? Is there a strategy? No, not any more. We'd be lucky to tread water and that's what Les and co are hoping we do.

Much of this was avoidable, there was absolutely no need for a domino effect. Sure, we were always going to be victims of our own success but if we'd played things out differently with MP, AL et al then things could have been so so different.

That's it for now, I'll write more later.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Wow, that is a very bold statement, if they end up selling this summer there will be riots in Southampton.

Very disappointed by this news...have to hope their mouth pieces is going to get mugged off by the owner and they'll sell regardless.

What are you guys talking about ?

 

[SpurSince57]

Didn't I predict that leak last night was bad news ? Never good when shit comes out before it's close to happening. On the optimistic side of the coin, I'm pretty sure we made similar claims regarding Gareth Bale last summer, however we caved. Sadly for the parallel, only once Real Madrid stumped up a ridiculous fee, not something I can see us doing with Southampton!

Did we cave, or were we just waiting for them to make us an offer we couldn't refuse? After all, there was no way we were going to keep him and fulfil Villas-Boas' wish list.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ultimately, at best we'll spend a lot of money on them on deadline and not give them time to settle

We'll go into the season with players that have yet to gel. Standard really