Where would we be

[14/04/91]

We'd've replaced Modric, Rafa and King with Joe Cole, Bellamy and Rio Ferdinand; and could easily be carrying on our 4 points from 12 games form from the spring.

We got 10 points from our last 4 games.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I actually think that with 'Arry here we would be 3 points worse off. I think we would have struggled with the smaller clubs like we have, but we certainly would not have won at Old Trafford.

 

[defoe18]

We can't change the past.

Levy wanted AVB, so we have him and have to deal with the consequences - good or bad

 

[StartingPrice]

I thought the question was whether or not JJ's opinion, coming on the back of a few disappointing results, was more or less likely to be correct because of his status as an ITK (and, generally, a good one), and not whether he was a good ITK or not?

 

[mil1lion]

We would be at White Hart Lane still

 

[ravo]

The same position. Injuries have hurt us.

 

[ItsBoris]

We would be in Shitsville if Harry was here under these circumstances imho. I don't mean to berate him or anything, but Harry went on a poor run of 6 points in 9 games even without an injury crisis - he lost 5-2 at Arsenal with 11 men and with VDV, Modric, Parker, King, etc all fit.

Honestly I think AVB is just a better manager, but with not as good players. It would be a mistake to get rid of him. It would be a mistake not to back him and bring in the players he believes would fit his system.

But with Dembele, Parker, Ekotto, Kaboul coming back we will get our mojo back again. Even Ade getting fit again has made a huge difference to the quality of our football.

 

[JimmyG2]

Harry who?

 

[DIEHARD]

The problem isnt AVB its Levy.

The Root Cause of the problem sometimes isnt the Manager and not the players but the person who brought in the players that are either shit, a downgrade on previous players or are not suitable to the system the Manager wants. Simples.

Harry would have got us playing far more exciting football. I dont think we will have lost at home yet (maybe Chelscum maybe) and I think we will have lost against Manure away but beaten Noocastle but I think the positive results will have far outweighed the negatives.

 

[brasil_spur]

How is this thread still going?

You can make an argument for any position in the league you like and be somewhat correct about it.

 

[werty]

We would be in Shitsville if Harry was here under these circumstances imho. I don't mean to berate him or anything, but Harry went on a poor run of 6 points in 9 games even without an injury crisis - he lost 5-2 at Arsenal with 11 men and with VDV, Modric, Parker, King, etc all fit.

Honestly I think AVB is just a better manager, but with not as good players. It would be a mistake to get rid of him. It would be a mistake not to back him and bring in the players he believes would fit his system.

But with Dembele, Parker, Ekotto, Kaboul coming back we will get our mojo back again. Even Ade getting fit again has made a huge difference to the quality of our football.

I doubt we'd be in "Shitsville", as you put it. I bring this up a lot, so sorry if I'm boring anyone with it. The first year we finished fourth we didn't have King, Modric, Lennon or Bale (though that wasn't through injury) for half the season, four of our best and most important players that season. Woodgate, another starter when fit, played only played 2 or 3 games that season. We also didn't have Parker and VDV at the club and Tom Huddlestone made the most appearances in the league for us, which tells you how brilliant our centre midfield options were. We still finished the season with 70 points, despite that "injury crisis" and lack of quality, with most of the team being sold or no longer wanted by Harry/AVB/Levy because they weren't/aren't good enough.

I'm not sure we'd be much better off points wise if Harry was still in charge. I think we would have done much better at home, but we more than likely wouldn't have won away at Old Trafford and probably would have slipped on the road in one of the easier games. I certainly think we'd be playing better football though and wouldn't be dominated for large portions of each game like we have been this season.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

We would be in Shitsville if Harry was here under these circumstances imho. I don't mean to berate him or anything, but Harry went on a poor run of 6 points in 9 games even without an injury crisis - he lost 5-2 at Arsenal with 11 men and with VDV, Modric, Parker, King, etc all fit.

Honestly I think AVB is just a better manager, but with not as good players. It would be a mistake to get rid of him. It would be a mistake not to back him and bring in the players he believes would fit his system.

But with Dembele, Parker, Ekotto, Kaboul coming back we will get our mojo back again. Even Ade getting fit again has made a huge difference to the quality of our football.

What about when we qualified for the Champions League? Our team was weaker then with Crouch as Defoe, Palacios Hudd and Lennon etc..

We need to fuck Harry off and stop talking about him, and I think most in the main are happy to do that, but it doesn't help when these nonsense posts come up every now and then rewriting the course of history!

 

[mpickard2087]

What about when we qualified for the Champions League? Our team was weaker then with Crouch as Defoe, Palacios Hudd and Lennon etc..

We need to fuck Harry off and stop talking about him, and I think most in the main are happy to do that, but it doesn't help when these nonsense posts come up every now and then rewriting the course of history!

Individuals may have been inferior to what we have now, I still think its the best 'team' that we have had though in terms of balance and that it ticked a lot of boxes. The fact that it got our highest points total for a season I think shows this.

Dunno what relevance that has though to anything, but just saying

 

[mattdefoe]

whoops only asking hypothetically :s

 

[punky]

I don't think our league position would be much different. Couple of points higher maybe. Our players would definitely be more motivated though. The quality of football might be better depending on who he bought in the summer

 

[mark87]

The problem isn't Andre and the system, the problem is the players.

Modric and Rafa gone, Benny, Kaboul, Móusa and Parker injured. That's six incredible players, plus the legend that is Ledley King. No managerial inspiration or tactics in the world could compensate for that missing quality. You can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

I swear my missus attempted that last night, no idea what the fuck it was on my plate.

 

[ItsBoris]

I doubt we'd be in "Shitsville", as you put it. I bring this up a lot, so sorry if I'm boring anyone with it. The first year we finished fourth we didn't have King, Modric, Lennon or Bale (though that wasn't through injury) for half the season, four of our best and most important players that season. Woodgate, another starter when fit, played only played 2 or 3 games that season. We also didn't have Parker and VDV at the club and Tom Huddlestone made the most appearances in the league for us, which tells you how brilliant our centre midfield options were. We still finished the season with 70 points, despite that "injury crisis" and lack of quality, with most of the team being sold or no longer wanted by Harry/AVB/Levy because they weren't/aren't good enough.

I'm not sure we'd be much better off points wise if Harry was still in charge. I think we would have done much better at home, but we more than likely wouldn't have won away at Old Trafford and probably would have slipped on the road in one of the easier games. I certainly think we'd be playing better football though and wouldn't be dominated for large portions of each game like we have been this season.

In the season we finished 4th, Modric and Lennon were the players who made the most starts on the wings. Our midfield back then was also effective and Hudd was playing better then that he is now.

I would argue that the midtable of the league has improved significantly since that season so it is now harder to take points. In 2010, 2 teams that got relegated in the coming years finished in 9th and 10th (Birmingham and Blackburn). Now the midtable teams have become pretty strong - Everton, Newcastle, Liverpool, Swansea, West Brom, Fulham, Norwich, Stoke, West Ham - most of those teams are playing well and they are going to be pretty tough games home or away.

When Harry was our manager we were usually dominated by bigger teams anyway, with AVB I feel like we are not getting dominated as badly. The game against Chelsea for instance, I think we created a lot of chances but they won because they took their chances. Still we didn't get dominated. Against Arsenal we didn't get dominated even with 10 men, we came out in the 2nd half and gave it a real go, and we created chances. Against City and United in the second half we got dominated. However in all of those fixtures last season we were dominated, except maybe for the Chelsea home game. Against these 4 teams last season we won 1 game in all competitions, so AVB's already matched that even if we lose/draw every other game.

The reason I say I don't think Harry would be doing better is because I remember what happened last season at Old Trafford and at home to City when we didn't have Modric, either completely absent or mentally absent. Even then we still had VDV. When we played without them in the cup competitions we were absolutely horrendous (Stevenage away comes to mind), so I really don't think he would have had us anywhere near 4th but that's just me. I still think we are suffering the after effects of last season's meltdown.

 

[The Apprentice]

I'm fairly certain that I have absolutely no idea.

 

[ItsBoris]

What about when we qualified for the Champions League? Our team was weaker then with Crouch as Defoe, Palacios Hudd and Lennon etc..

We need to fuck Harry off and stop talking about him, and I think most in the main are happy to do that, but it doesn't help when these nonsense posts come up every now and then rewriting the course of history!

Well compared to what we have been starting with in recent times, I would rather start with Crouch of that time than Dempsey, I would rather start with the Hudd of that season, than this Hudd, Palacios was playing very well but I admit I would rather have Sandro, I'd rather have Ekotto than Naughton or Vertonghen at LB, of course I would rather have Vertonghen than Bassong though. I would WAY rather have Corluka than the Walker of this season who has been horrendous. I would probably rather have Gomes of that season than Friedel of this season.

So Fullbacks not as good, CBs better, GK a wash, Midfield a wash, wings a wash, Strikers not as good.

So in terms of attack, we are not as good with what is available right now. (Although it is difficult to do a direct comparison). Now that will all change now that Adebayor, Dembele, Parker, and hopefully Ekotto and Kaboul are coming back. I think we have a MUCH better team this season but we haven't been able to utilize it yet. There's no doubt in my mind that we could have won at Etihad, Emirates and at home to Chelsea with all our best players available.

Still though it was what happened in the following seasons that made me question Harry. The most likely explanation for our decline was probably that in the 2009-10 season we didn't really have the pressure of needing to finish 4th because we had never qualified for the Champions League before. Some people attributed the downturn in 2011 to having to juggle CL and PL games, but that seemed to not be the case because the same thing happened last season.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Well compared to what we have been starting with in recent times, I would rather start with Crouch of that time than Dempsey, I would rather start with the Hudd of that season, than this Hudd, Palacios was playing very well but I admit I would rather have Sandro, I'd rather have Ekotto than Naughton or Vertonghen at LB, of course I would rather have Vertonghen than Bassong though. I would WAY rather have Corluka than the Walker of this season who has been horrendous. I would probably rather have Gomes of that season than Friedel of this season.

So Fullbacks not as good, CBs better, GK a wash, Midfield a wash, wings a wash, Strikers not as good.

So in terms of attack, we are not as good with what is available right now. (Although it is difficult to do a direct comparison). Now that will all change now that Adebayor, Dembele, Parker, and hopefully Ekotto and Kaboul are coming back. I think we have a MUCH better team this season but we haven't been able to utilize it yet. There's no doubt in my mind that we could have won at Etihad, Emirates and at home to Chelsea with all our best players available.

Still though it was what happened in the following seasons that made me question Harry. The most likely explanation for our decline was probably that in the 2009-10 season we didn't really have the pressure of needing to finish 4th because we had never qualified for the Champions League before. Some people attributed the downturn in 2011 to having to juggle CL and PL games, but that seemed to not be the case because the same thing happened last season.

What a load of flannel.