Do you care as much as you did

WalkerboyUK · Feb 3, 2014

dudu said:
Perhaps we will be when we are out of our transition?

are we not in a transition period right now? 7 new players, a new inexperienced coach who has even less experience than our previous inexperienced coach.

Maybe apply the same logic that Liverpool are only 3 points ahead of us despite us being in transition....

Are we ever NOT in transition??? The only time recently we've not been in transition was Harry's final season, and that got interrupted by a court case and an England job.

Liverpool would be a lot further ahead if Suarez had been available at start of season.

BringBack_leGin · Feb 3, 2014

Kendall said:
It's always funny when people claim to not care because things are stuttering a bit. I care as much as I always did, I just really want us to maximise our potential.

There's a lad I know who seems to be bang into NFL these days (shittest sport in the world by the way) and doesn't resist a dig at football. It's almost become cool to be perceived as turning your back on the sport.

Money ruining the game? people have been saying that to me since I was knee high to a grasshopper. City have raised the bar of course, but, for my sins, at least Arsenal are showing that it is possible to be competitive, despite the wonky playing field.

We have finished above Chelsea and Liverpool in recent years despite the money situation and have a very real chance of finishing above United. Wah wah wah.

Like I said, I'm not sure 'caring' is the right word, and my deflation about things is not down to our stutter so much (it's still a heap better than the Spurs I grew up watching) but due to a number of factors and blows. Another big thing is, I just don't feel an affinity with our players. They're either not here long enough, or when they are, they're not good enough. I never even really felt a true affinity with Modric as I knew he wasn't going to stick around. With Bale, I allowed myself to and like the rest of us, was brought crashing back to reality last summer. I'm tempted to have one with Sandro but either due to him leaving, or due to his injuries getting the better of him, that seems destined to end frustratingly, as is the case with Kaboul, Lloris and Vertonghen.

You know, I feel a genuine affinity with three players at the club right now. Defoe, Lennon, Dawson. If I picked my best elevent, none of them would get in I'd imagine (though Lennon on a good day would). The only other player I particularly care about is Ekotto and he's been treated disgustingly and farmed out to a league he's way too good for.

Making use of some hindsight, the last time, maybe the only time, I really felt a connection to the majority of a Spurs team was under Jol. King, Dawson, Robinson, Lennon, Steed, Keane, Berbatov, Defoe. Yes, I loved the side who played for us in the 2011/2012 season (and the two sides building up to that starting in summer 2009), it was by far the greatest Spurs side I've seen and I still feel that bar a series of unfortunate events (not least our manager's flirtings with the England role for half a season) we could have seen a title winning side that year, but the loss of any real identity, as reflected by the declining atmosphere at the lane, begun at half time in a UEFA cup match at home v Getafe, regardless of the peaks and troughs that followed, and while I am one of our boards biggest backers on the whole, it's impossible to ignore that since then we've just felt more and more soulless.

Ultimately, whatever part of the league we are competing in, whatever players we sign or don't sign, and whatever the quality of football, I still love Spurs, but I just don't feel the passion for them I used to and I'm not convinced it's going to return because the factors which have contributed to my loss of enthusiasm only seem to be growing in magnitude. I'm in my 17th season as a season ticket holder and I'm not convinced that I'm going to reach a 20th season, in full knowledge that if I do fail to renew at any point in the near future, there's no getting back in for a very long time.

Kendall · Feb 3, 2014

WalkerboyUK said:
Are we ever NOT in transition??? The only time recently we've not been in transition was Harry's final season, and that got interrupted by a court case and an England job.

Liverpool would be a lot further ahead if Suarez had been available at start of season.

A lot further? They drew away at Swansea but only because Shelvey forgot which team he was playing for and they lost to Southampton.

If Suarez was there and was the mega hulk, they'd potentially be a further 5 points as an absolute maximum, but I think that's doing Southampton (at the time they were in great form) and Swansea a disservice, especially as they've lost to Hull and drawn with both Villa and West Brom with Suarez in the side.

WalkerboyUK · Feb 3, 2014

Kendall said:
Absolutely disagree with that. Without Bale last year we would've been hopeless.

We had two options. Keep him, leaving the rest of the squad in decline, with the likes of Parker and Dempsey remaining at the club. Or sell hm and strengthen in serveral positions.

Just because we got a world record fee for Bale doesn't mean the manager wasn't backed. Not many managers get 100m worth of internationals to strengthen their squad. That should've been ample to be as competitive if not more so than Liverpool or Arsenal.

We used a scatter gun approach on the signings. Throw enough arrows and you'll hit a target.....

Soldado wasn't (allegedly) AVBs choice of striker
Llamela - evidently a Baldini purchase

I'd have been happier with 3 new players who would have slotted in straight away, rather than 5 who haven't set the world alight (I leave Erikson & Paulinho out for actually contributing something this season).

Now we face finishing the season with 2 strikers in the squad, one of whom can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo, and the other who has a tendency to go very quiet at the business end of the season.
At least a third of that £100 million should have been kept to use in the January window.

WalkerboyUK · Feb 3, 2014

BringBack_leGin said:
The only other player I particularly care about is Ekotto and he's been treated disgustingly and farmed out to a league he's way too good for.

Burnley made him look like a League 2 player at times on Saturday.......

Kendall · Feb 3, 2014

WalkerboyUK said:
We used a scatter gun approach on the signings. Throw enough arrows and you'll hit a target.....

Soldado wasn't (allegedly) AVBs choice of striker
Llamela - evidently a Baldini purchase

I'd have been happier with 3 new players who would have slotted in straight away, rather than 5 who haven't set the world alight (I leave Erikson & Paulinho out for actually contributing something this season).

Now we face finishing the season with 2 strikers in the squad, one of whom can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo, and the other who has a tendency to go very quiet at the business end of the season.
At least a third of that £100 million should have been kept to use in the January window.

The beauty of hindsight. I don't think we did use a scattergun approach. I think we strengthened in several key areas that we needed strengthening in and with players of real international pedigree both established and potential.

SteveH · Feb 3, 2014

I've been following football and Spurs in general since around 1964. But not at the same intensity for all those year, as life comes along and 'gets in the way'.

Life has differing calls on your time with in my case girls, business, children and now grandchildren etc.

When my kids where little I did not 'have' or, to be accurate 'was not allowed', the time as I do now. It's not a case of 'caring less' or more, its having other priorities and interest.

My son in law is/was a mad sports fan ManU/Brentford/Harlequins, the list goes on. But he just does just have the time or 'energy' (new 2 week old baby girl "Jasmin") to follow/watch as he used to - life changes and so do the calls on our time.

Football/sport has always been about money nothing has changed much, its just like everything football has become more efficient in making money. But football has not got more about money, there is just more money in football. Also City and Chelsea they are nothing new - Liverpool were boring us all to death in the 70's and 80's spending their cash from the Moores family generated by the then popular Littlewoods Football Pools. Kenny Dalglish cost a then record £440,000 from Celtic back in the day, an absolute fortune.

Its not just a case of 'caring' it must also be a case of 'enjoying', when life lets you.
I really enjoy watching Spurs and football in general.

Thats why I'm posting here.

NP4_Yid · Feb 3, 2014

Bulletspur said:
Unlike you I cannot serve two Masters. Its either Spurs or nought.

Thats fair enough but don't think I've got it easy, if anything my weekends are far more arduous - Spurs, Newport, my kids' under 8s and under 11s teams and my Sunday 6 a side team. Its very rare that I have a perfect football weekend!

SteveH · Feb 3, 2014

NP4_Yid said:
Thats fair enough but don't think I've got it easy, if anything my weekends are far more arduous - Spurs, Newport, my kids' under 8s and under 11s teams and my Sunday 6 a side team. Its very rare that I have a perfect football weekend!

You have to put the hard graft in to achieve "a perfect football weekend". I has taken me a very very long time to finesse the art of collecting the brownie points required.

I have the scars to show for my many failures.

al_pacino · Feb 3, 2014

It's hard to quantify how much you care but I can say that I stay pissed off for far less time after a poor result than I used to. But I'm sure that is just acting a bit more grown up about about it than caring less.

There does seem less to like about the game in general though.

JohanTheYid · Feb 3, 2014

I just cant help it, Im addicted and I care as much now as I ever did. We had people over on Saturday so I couldnt watch the game, so instead every other minute Im refreshing my "website that cannot be mentioned" feed to see if we've scored, only to curse loudly when I see Shane Long pop up.

SteveH · Feb 3, 2014

JohanTheYid said:
I just cant help it, Im addicted and I care as much now as I ever did. We had people over on Saturday so I couldnt watch the game, so instead every other minute Im refreshing my "website that cannot be mentioned" feed to see if we've scored, only to curse loudly when I see Shane Long pop up.

Now see this is the problem - You need to clamp down on these people who "come over", unless they bring a few tins of cause to help you stay loose while you watch the footy.

You would think the OU would do a course in this for christ sake, very remiss of them.

Singaspur · Feb 3, 2014

No, i don't care as much. Not don't care at all, just not as much. From roughly the mid-90s until Enic took over, I didn't care as much (as I did before that phase) because we were hopelessly underperforming and mediocre for such a long time. Then things improved and maybe the hope got to me - i thought we had a real chance of being a top 4 or even title-winning club. I don't believe that any more. Fact is, barring a series of miracles (choose the right manager - give him TIME, find/develop 2 or 3 Bales - DON"T sell the said 2 or 3 Bales) we are stuck behind the 'moneyed' clubs.

So I am feeling disillusioned. Maybe I'll get excited again after a couple or 5 shitty seasons if we then show a bit of an uptick in performance versus (lower) hopes/expectations.

mattstev2000 · Feb 3, 2014

This season is the first in a long time where I've felt a bit disillusioned and disconnected from football and the results to be honest.

Don't really feel like all is well behind the scenes and I think we're going to be plodding on repeating the same mistakes for a considerable amount of time.

Still want us to win and will always support us, just not carrying the same level of positive or negative energy through the rest of the week depending on our result.

Which may be a good thing? Some of the miserable weeks I had because of crappy Spurs results in the past were probably a bit naff for the people around me!

Stoof · Feb 3, 2014

Spurger King said:
Do I care as much as I did?

Hard to say. Prior to Jol I had very low expectations whenever Spurs played. I expected a poor result, so anything different was a reason to be cheerful. I used to be incredibly passionate about Spurs when I was in my teens, then the Judas incident made me lose a lot of faith in football. I still followed Spurs, but I had very little enthusiasm for the sport in general.

When Jol started turning things around, the games suddenly started to matter more. After years of expecting little more than avoiding relegation, and maybe a good cup run, we were suddenly making our league games relevant.

My passion for the club started to build again. Thoughts of a new, golden era started to seem possible. I Keegan loved it when we won the Carling Cup, and felt like I was thirteen again.

After the car crash start to the next season, Harry seemed to bring a bit of magic back to the club. I was passionately cheering us on as we dragged ourself out of the relegation zone. After that, it looked like we had finally broken into the big time. Obviously the peak of this was Champions League football, and those wins against the two Milan teams. There was something hair-raising about those days (which now feel like a million years ago).

Having tasted it, we all wanted more. Instead some incredibly frustrating decisions by Levy, a number of games where we simply bottled it, and some terrible luck meant that this didn't happen.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back was the Chavs winning the CL. With Oil Money FC winning the league in the same season, it was more evident than ever that soulless, ugly billionaire clubs would be the future of successful football.

Bale's exploits last season were certainly exciting to watch, but the rest of the team, thanks to AVB, were a horrid sight. Now we've lost all of our star players from our CL season, and are left with a shapeless, half-arsed bunch of players made up of potential, inconsistent but good players, great players that are always injured, and a lot of mid-table types.

I guess that's why I probably don't care as much now. For years we were steadily progressing, and finally reached the dizzy heights we'd hoped for. Now reality has set in, and there's little to look forward to except our inevitable disappointing season, more of our best players leaving, downgrade replacements coming in, and probably several more years of transition. Meanwhile a nothing club like City buy their way straight to the top of the league.

A Spurs win or loss used to dictate the mood of my entire week. These days, beyond discussions on this forum, it makes no difference to me one way or the other. As someone on Fighting Cock said, we're nothing more than a player-exchange business now.

Pretty much sums up exactly how I feel.

I remember going to that Bolton game (2006), where we rode our luck and Lennon scored just gone the hour mark. Dawson made a horrific challenge in the area, definite peno, but it wasn't given. The ref blew up, a banner was unfurled across the Park Lane "We're all going on a European Tour".

Amazing scenes. "Martin Jol's Blue & White Army" rang out. The crowd loved their manager. The crowd loved their players.

Then we sold Carrick and began our "sell our best player" trip that has seen us improve but only ultimately after a time that it seems that we haven't improved. If that makes sense.

To answer the thread? No. No I don't. And the sad thing is I thought as soon as I got my season ticket I would find an extra level and it turns out that I disagree with a fairly large number of fans on how you should support your club when in said stadium.

mattyspurs · Feb 3, 2014

I didn't think that I did. However, I still come on here every day, I still stream every game, I still come in the match day threads, however much some posters annoy me. I still post updates good or bad on Bookface during a game, I still sing songs at home trying to gee the crowd up even though the crowd cannot hear me, but I do that as much as to get my two young boys excited about it, and they love seeing me go mental when we score a goal too.

Yep, I think I still care

dudu · Feb 3, 2014

Kendall said:
Absolutely disagree with that. Without Bale last year we would've been hopeless.

We had two options. Keep him, leaving the rest of the squad in decline, with the likes of Parker and Dempsey remaining at the club. Or sell hm and strengthen in serveral positions.

Just because we got a world record fee for Bale doesn't mean the manager wasn't backed. Not many managers get 100m worth of internationals to strengthen their squad. That should've been ample to be as competitive "eventually" if not more so than Liverpool or Arsenal.

Ive added in eventually because of the amount of new players we had in. I personally think we bit off more than we could chew. Its happened before to other teams making less changes who have suffered just as badly as us with managers that have had so much more experience than either AVB or TS.

Expectation vs reality time here for some on here. Not you bro, just seems there are some who thought we were going to able to compete with those above us who needed less new players with more experienced managers at their helms.

JerryGarcia · Feb 3, 2014

LukaMotion said:

I'm not much of a rap fan but that was great, he's spot on there.

we_all_loved_freund · Feb 3, 2014

People can say what they want about Harry as a person. As a football manager, though, nobody can disagree that his teams gave us incredible moments of joy. I remember thinking in December '11/January '12 that we should savour these performances because they may not come around too often.

I think going from such a high as Harry undoubtably brought us, to the dross that AVB's teams served up has brought most people's enthusiasm down. Part of me is still struggling to understand why Harry had to go. He clearly wasn't backed in the transfer market in his last season and I feel that if he had of been we would have undoubtedly got in to the CL. People moan that Harry courted the England job but, really, what proud English man would not want to manage the national team? If it had been a manager at any other club we would all have probably said how refreshing it was to see a manager be passionate about the job.

In reality, Harry was never fashionable enough but AVB was a huge mistake. His persona and tactics have deflated the whole club and the fans in terms of morale. People criticise the fans for not supporting the team. However, the team need to inspire the fans as well as the fans inspiring them; they simply have not done that since AVB took over.

Whilst I will still watch every match, its not something that I look forward to anywhere near as much. Fans will always support their team through thick and thin. It is the level of enthusiasm of that support that will vary. However, imo, the team have to take responsibility for enthusiasm waining. Yes the lane is quiet at the moment, but it is still full every week, and by going, the fans are supporting their team (they may just not be doing so as enthusiastically as they were when there was a spectacle to enjoy).

If the club wants enthusiastic support, it needs to provide a team that encourages such enthusiasm.

bk75 · Feb 3, 2014

No, footballs all about money and finishing in champions league places. Our 'trophies'
were the two Milan games. That's what is sad about football. I'm realistic to know it won't change until we join the oil baron clubs and get the new stadium built. But finishing in the top six every year
now is far better than the 90's and the early 00's.

I did not have a choice supporting this club my dad, my brothers, my uncles and cousins all support spurs and we always will. When we lose I just laugh it off now but back in 03-04 when arsenal were winning everything I seriously questioned my support but I came through that. I grew up and since then we have had some great times none better when we beat Milan away and that was special because I was with my dad in the San Siro. That moment was our 'trophy'.

Who knows what's going to happen in the future but it's going to be fun finding out. That's Spurs and I would not have it any other way.

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