Ratings Vs QPR

Japhet · Aug 25, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I think you're actually getting a bit carried away[/B], genuinely. All I am saying is it is really hard to evaluate how much was "us" when a team is that abjectly bad. And they were fucking bad.

We know we have some very good players, much better than QPR's, and that disparity is often bridged by hard work and good organisation, which they also were devoid of.

So we outplayed and beat a shit team who were badly organised and half arsed. That's lovely, I enjoyed it, you can do no more but I'm really not sure what you learn from it that you didn't already know. I certainly didn't.

And there has been very little evidence in our previous two games, also against pretty shit teams.

So , whilst I am definitely hopeful that we will see signs of a collective coached approach in the future, which has been the hallmark and reason we hired Pochettino, I really can't say I've seen it yet. And to be honest, I don't entirely expect to.

Maybe you're right, but after the turgid dross we've been subjected to under AVB and the zero tactics/1990's approach of Sherwood, I think a little bit of collective euphoria is acceptable. Just seeing the ball ping around the park is enough to raise the pulse and when we stick the ball in the net after a 48 pass move I'm not surprised there's a good degree of optimism. 2 games in and we look like a different prospect. Think we can give Liverpool a game now.

Bus-Conductor · Aug 25, 2014

Japhet said:
Maybe you're right, but after the turgid dross we've been subjected to under AVB and the zero tactics/1990's approach of Sherwood, I think a little bit of collective euphoria is acceptable. Just seeing the ball ping around the park is enough to raise the pulse and when we stick the ball in the net after a 48 pass move I'm not surprised there's a good degree of optimism. 2 games in and we look like a different prospect. Think we can give Liverpool a game now.

That's fine, we all enjoy a facile, un-sphincter challenging win from time to time, but I still have an inert need to call it what it is I'm afraid.

scat1620 · Aug 25, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
That's lovely, I enjoyed it, you can do no more but I'm really not sure what you learn from it that you didn't already know. I certainly didn't.

To be fair, Beece, I'm sure even your harshest critics would concede that there's very little that you don't already know...

SEANSPURS1975 · Aug 25, 2014

A lot of great performances yesterday. I personally thought Capoue was immense. What a quality player. For Pochettino's game plan to work that position is crucial and Capoue is made for that role. Also I've been one of Danny Roses harshest critics in the past, but he seems a different player from last season. He was excellent yesterday and hope that continues. Although QPR were piss poor, the signs of that performance are very positive...

Bus-Conductor · Aug 25, 2014

Japhet said:
Maybe you're right, but after the turgid dross we've been subjected to under AVB and the zero tactics/1990's approach of Sherwood, I think a little bit of collective euphoria is acceptable. Just seeing the ball ping around the park is enough to raise the pulse and when we stick the ball in the net after a 48 pass move I'm not surprised there's a good degree of optimism. 2 games in and we look like a different prospect. Think we can give Liverpool a game now.

And I don't believe the football we played under AVB was dross. There were lots of facets that were good IMO. Lots of facets that AVB and Pochettino have in common.

And lets not forget, AVB was ahead of Pochettino in the league , with all his 20m+ footballers in every position, just about the whole time they were in this league.

So far I like the decisions Pochettino is making. They bode well. I didn't like some of the decisions AVB made and thought they were counter intuitive to his philosophy.

Lets hope this continues and that in Pochettino we have found someone who can harmonise these facets for the best outcome. I Know AVB didn't always do this. But anyone who thinks it was all shit didn't notice Bale becoming one of the world's best players, us getting record points, us being 4 points off CL and in a Qtr final and winning every group game in Europe for the first time, whilst trying to acclimatise 7 new players.

dimiSpur · Aug 25, 2014

@davidmatzdorf what in particular made you disagree with my post mate?

Japhet · Aug 25, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
And I don't believe the football we played under AVB was dross. There were lots of facets that were good IMO. Lots of facets that AVB and Pochettino have in common.

And lets not forget, AVB was ahead of Pochettino in the league , with all his 20m+ footballers in every position, just about the whole time they were in this league.

So far I like the decisions Pochettino is making. They bode well. I didn't like some of the decisions AVB made and thought they were counter intuitive to his philosophy.

Lets hope this continues and that in Pochettino we have found someone who can harmonise these facets for the best outcome. I Know AVB didn't always do this. But anyone who thinks it was all shit didn't notice Bale becoming one of the world's best players, us getting record points, us being 4 points off CL and in a Qtr final and winning every group game in Europe for the first time, whilst trying to acclimatise 7 new players.

My over-riding memory of AVB's game was the labouriosly slow, side to side 'build up' where was passed the ball around aimlessly until the opposition were all behind the ball and able to snuff out any danger. Sure, our defensive stats were very good to begin with but when we came up against any real talent we got torn apart. The first season under him was largely the same apart from Bale repeatedly coming to the rescue to paper over the cracks. Sherwood just frustrated the hell out of me with his (IMO) inept team selections and bizarre tactics. We've played 2 pretty poor teams so far this year but I very much doubt we would have done as well under AVB or Sherwood. I'm just enjoying the ride for now.

Mr Pink · Aug 25, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I'm not saying tempo and pressing won't come, but I didn't see much of it as a coherent tactic today, I saw some individuals - like Lamela - getting stuck in but I think he's generally out to prove a point and this is part of his natural game anyway.

I thought we were fucking turgid against West Ham, and I think it's really dangerous to get carried away against such a piss poor opposition today. I'm not seeing the "big steps" you are seeing or a massive leap in tempo. I'm seeing players like a fit Lamela finally getting regular football, our best attack out on the pitch at the same time, our best CM2 and n improvement in our defence over what we saw most of last season. A load of players who are year more experienced of this league/country too.

Credit to Pochettino for some of those decisions and AVB didn't always make the right ones. But tactically as a team I'm not seeing those big steps yet. I certainly didn't see any last week, and it's impossible to say this week as QPR were so poor it's hard to tell.

You don't think our passing and movement was much slicker and sharper looking?

I thought there was a huge difference if I'm being honest.

Had the same QPR team turned up last season and put in a similar performance we wouldn't of done that to them yesterday playing the way we were last season - no way.

Moving the ball as slowly as we did would of made it a hell of a lot easier for QPR to settle into the game and defend - which would of set a completely different tone for the game.

QPR were poor, no one is denying that, but our tempo and approach to the game right from the off is a contributory reason - obviously.

We never scored early last season, never. Totally different attitude and tempo to the way we started yesterday and that set the tone.

Japhet · Aug 25, 2014

Mr Pink said:
You don't think our passing and movement was much slicker and sharper looking?

I thought there was a huge difference if I'm being honest.

Had the same QPR team turned up last season and put in a similar performance we wouldn't of done that to them yesterday playing the way we were last season - no way.

Moving the ball as slowly as we did would of made it a hell of a lot easier for QPR to settle into the game and defend - which would of set a completely different tone for the game.

QPR were poor, no one is denying that, but our tempo and approach to the game right from the off is a contributory reason - obviously.

We never scored early last season, never. Totally different attitude and tempo to the way we started yesterday and that set the tone.

100% agree. Our attack was also coming from all sorts of angles which QPR couldn't cope with at all. We still have a way to go but this is so much better from very much the same bunch of players.

davidmatzdorf · Aug 25, 2014

dimiSpur said:
@davidmatzdorf what in particular made you disagree with my post mate?

dimiSpur said:
I especially enjoyed seeing Les squirming on MOTD2, making out he was injured last season and not ostracised as the commentator suggested.

He wasn't squirming, he was irritatedly correcting the commentator, who was in turn repeating something erroneous that another commentator had said.

SlickMongoose · Aug 25, 2014

dimiSpur said:
I especially enjoyed seeing Les squirming on MOTD2, making out he was injured last season and not ostracised as the commentator suggested.

Just because everyone in the press is pretending he wasn't injured for most of last season, doesn't mean we should believe it as well. He was injured.

Mr Pink · Aug 25, 2014

Totally agree with 365's appraisal in the winners sections this morning...here's a snippet:

Against QPR, the biggest difference from last season was the level of pressing and speed to Tottenham's play, two aspects which Pochettino also focused on at Southampton. Under Andre Villas-Boas, Spurs were resilient, but often too slow to be entertaining, whereas Tim Sherwood tried to inject urgency but failed in organisation. On Sunday, there was balance between the two.

This is a further telling inference from Pochettino to with regards to last season:

However, it is this quote from the manager that provides the most encouragement: "We work a lot on the training ground but it is important that the players are free in their minds because they are creative players. You cannot put the players like that in the shade, you need to provide the organisation but after that they are free."

Maintaining Sunday's balance is clearly the priority for Pochettino, and he could prove to be the perfect blend of the contrasting positives under Villas-Boas and Sherwood.

Read more here:

http://www.football365.com/winners-losers/9439548/Winners-Losers

dimiSpur · Aug 25, 2014

SlickMongoose said:
Just because everyone in the press is pretending he wasn't injured for most of last season, doesn't mean we should believe it as well. He was injured.

Even though he was videoed at Finsbury park training? I don't think he was injured, or if he was, I think it was greatly exaggerated.

jezz · Aug 25, 2014

dimiSpur said:
Even though he was videoed at Finsbury park training? I don't think he was injured, or if he was, I think it was greatly exaggerated.

Speechless

Blake Griffin · Aug 25, 2014

dimiSpur said:
Even though he was videoed at Finsbury park training? I don't think he was injured, or if he was, I think it was greatly exaggerated.

training? wasn't it just him doing a couple of kick-ups?

mpickard2087 · Aug 25, 2014

dimiSpur said:
Even though he was videoed at Finsbury park training? I don't think he was injured, or if he was, I think it was greatly exaggerated.

From everything that has been said on him, my understanding is he had a back injury to start with that proved troublesome to fix. It was then decided that he had poor core strength and that he would be susceptible to reoccurring back and muscle injuries so the decision was made to be patient and put him on a strength/conditioning programme so that his body could handle the rigour and so when he did come back eventually he had less chance of breaking down again.

Looks like a case of writing off a few months of last season to get him right, so we could benefit in the years to come.

SpurSince57 · Aug 25, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Totally agree with 365's appraisal in the winners sections this morning...here's a snippet:

Against QPR, the biggest difference from last season was the level of pressing and speed to Tottenham's play, two aspects which Pochettino also focused on at Southampton. Under Andre Villas-Boas, Spurs were resilient, but often too slow to be entertaining, whereas Tim Sherwood tried to inject urgency but failed in organisation. On Sunday, there was balance between the two.

This is a further telling inference from Pochettino to with regards to last season:

However, it is this quote from the manager that provides the most encouragement: "We work a lot on the training ground but it is important that the players are free in their minds because they are creative players. You cannot put the players like that in the shade, you need to provide the organisation but after that they are free."

Maintaining Sunday's balance is clearly the priority for Pochettino, and he could prove to be the perfect blend of the contrasting positives under Villas-Boas and Sherwood.

Read more here:

http://www.football365.com/winners-losers/9439548/Winners-Losers

I posted in the match thread that Bradley Allen, who's one of the most astute commentators around, far better than most TV pundits, summed up the difference thus: when we lost the ball last season, we retreated and got back into position; yesterday we chased and got the ball back.

Mr Pink · Aug 25, 2014

SpurSince57 said:
I posted in the match thread that Bradley Allen, who's one of the most astute commentators around, far better than most TV pundits, summed up the difference thus: when we lost the ball last season, we retreated and got back into position; yesterday we chased and got the ball back.

Yeah that's a very cute observation - and so bloody true.

CowInAComa · Aug 25, 2014

When you press high up the pitch, and win the ball, you are immediately in a position to create something dangerous. When you drop back and only start to press in your own third you have no outball or limited potential to threaten (Unless of course you are the sort of side that can string together 40-50 passes)

davidmatzdorf · Aug 25, 2014

SlickMongoose said:
Just because everyone in the press is pretending he wasn't injured for most of last season, doesn't mean we should believe it as well. He was injured.

Of course: he's made several references to it himself, in the context of how frustrating he found the whole season and how much better (and fitter, I'm sure) he feels now.

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