Tottenham Vs Man United: Match Thread

DEFchenkOE said:

What was wrong with his subs? I was a bit surprised he took Townsend and Chadli off but I think it worked out well with Dembele - Stambouli - Mason in the middle. Wouldn't be against seeing that midfield again tbh.

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What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

DaSpurs said:

That article a) overlooks what position made him the youngest player at the 2010 World Cup, b) is overly semantic in its discerning between his position in a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 , c) overlooks that Ajax had little defensive responsibility thereby allowing Eriksen a freer role, d) fails to mention the difference in quality of opposition employed against from which the Sherwood point was made, e) laughably points to a game against Hull for making a case of pass production before conceding the fact Hull were playing a man down, and f) concludes with advocating a different position to the one you do.

I like that you back your point up with your own sound reasoning and evidence though. I just think that we have no compensation for movement orchestration with Eriksen wide, as we have no playmaker in the core. We're improving, but still far too static no matter what, and especially when Eriksen is wide. Eriksen would be so much better with more assistance from deep, or could even justifiably be argued to play wide with such an introduction. But I cannot understand how you can advocate sacrificing that movement orchestrator centrally, and pace on the flanks, for Eriksen's numbers against easier competition.

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maybe that's why he's been such a disappointment for denmark? as for ajax, he didn't play as a #10, only in his introductory years so again i don't know what relevance that has, i only care about what he does for spurs at the end of the day. you think that playing central allows him to orchestrate things but that just doesn't happen, not in a 4231, how can he orchestrate when he's the furthest player up the pitch but for the striker? when he plays left, he plays level with the midfield two, he acts as a third midfielder, a cross between 442 and 433, he gives us greater control of the game from that position and going forward he's much harder to detect. he moves into pockets of space rather than having to move out of them. he's so easily shackled in that position and again you're thinking in planet linear where creatives have to play central and quicker/more direct players have to play wide? why? what's the reason for this?

i hate him as a #10, it's not a case of easier opposition either, he just happens to suck everytime he plays there but you have to find a justification for it i guess. i hope poch stops wasting our best player, i'll even take the trade off of playing soldado if it means eriksen is back where he can be eriksen again.

prawnsandwich said:

What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

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but at the same time didn't try and lose the game...

[QUOTE="TH1239, post: 4399696, member: 20051"I think Dembele is better than all three of them. Imagine if we had bought Schneiderlin and paired him with a fit Dembele. We'd be a stout outfit in the middle and far more likely to make top 4 in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I have the disadvantage/benefit of not having seen today's game but I think one thing that most Spurs fans would agree on is that Dembélé's passing is one of his weaker points. He's definitely not know for his penetrative passing.

Playing in a midfield two is hard, it takes time to gel, to understand duties, positions. Give our young lads time, have a bit of patience - it will come. Sometimes that's what you need.

Also, you use the phrase 'stout'. I remember we were all excited about having the big lads (Dembélé, Sandro, Paulinho) bossing the midfield but actually being stout was no bloody use without passing ability, technique and energy. Leave stout to Stoke c. 2011

Whatever the ins and outs of positions let's get at least this straight-Eriksen is our best outfield player. Harry is challenging.
That is not to say this cannot change-but.....

chrissivad said:

but at the same time didn't try and lose the game...

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You go defensive when you are battering a team?

prawnsandwich said:

Whatever the ins and outs of positions let's get at least this straight-Eriksen is our best outfield player. Harry is challenging.
That is not to say this cannot change-but.....

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i'd be interested to see what people on here would do if we were to sign benteke or someone. would we be allowed to play him and kane or would one have to sit it out?

prawnsandwich said:

You go defensive when you are battering a team?

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when were we battering ManU?

We created more chances as the game went on, but at no point did we have them pinned back in their own half!

Sling Fazio up front... and we leave Verts to deal with RVP, Falcao and the runs from deep of Rooney.
Take off Stambouli for Soldado and you become even weaker in CM when we were already out numbered.

prawnsandwich said:

What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

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Why go gung ho? We wasn't behind and a point against utd is a decent result. Sending Fazio up top would have been madness, it's not a cup game and would have left us exposed to a counter attack against Falcao and rvp.

Maybe Soldado could have come in for Stambouli but I'm not convinced at all he would have made any difference whatsoever.

prawnsandwich said:

What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

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Sacraficing one of our centre backs against a team with Mata, Rooney, Falcao and Van Persie... are you insane?!

prawnsandwich said:

To say the subs MoPo made were ridiculous is an understatement. United were putting on defenders and we take off our joint top scorer and our most dangerous attacker who minutes earlier was clean through and should have got Young sent off. Fucking cowardly.

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Those two players should have been bought on earlier, that was the biggest mistake.

Blake Griffin said:

maybe that's why he's been such a disappointment for denmark? as for ajax, he didn't play as a #10, only in his introductory years so again i don't know what relevance that has, i only care about what he does for spurs at the end of the day. you think that playing central allows him to orchestrate things but that just doesn't happen, not in a 4231, how can he orchestrate when he's the furthest player up the pitch but for the striker? when he plays left, he plays level with the midfield two, he acts as a third midfielder, a cross between 442 and 433, he gives us greater control of the game from that position and going forward he's much harder to detect. he moves into pockets of space rather than having to move out of them. he's so easily shackled in that position and again you're thinking in planet linear where creatives have to play central and quicker/more direct players have to play wide? why? what's the reason for this?

i hate him as a #10, it's not a case of easier opposition either, he just happens to suck everytime he plays there but you have to find a justification for it i guess. i hope poch stops wasting our best player, i'll even take the trade off of playing soldado if it means eriksen is back where he can be eriksen again.

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It isn't as simple as advocating playing creatives centrally and quicker/direct wide, it's about the very simple fact that you have to have someone to link up all the parts centrally. It is simply the most conducive position to allow a player with technique and vision to do their work, as they have the most angles and lines of sight available to them. It's simple physics more so than football.

I agree with you though that he's suffocated far too easily. The problem is that he plays high, and he has insufficient supply from deep to open those angles up. The ball arrives at his feet far too slowly for him to turn and have a look. Even despite these conditions, he actually causes disorganization with his vision and throughballs, and he keeps us moving even while facing away from goal or antiparallel to it, unlike any other player in our squad.

He plays as your "third midfielder," that's not entirely true because he is still responsible for defensive duty as there is no player wide of him. So while what you're saying is true offensively, it isn't the case defensively as he either must fulfill the responsibility of a winger in helping out his fullback, or he is directly fucking his fullback over at the responsibility of no other player.

And finally, Eriksen has also "sucked" plenty in other games while playing wide left. Might I cite our recent match against Crystal Palace as an example. Meanwhile, for an example of a recent productive game while playing centrally, I cite the demolition of Newcastle in our recent League Cup quarterfinal.

prawnsandwich said:

What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

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What are you talking about?

In what world is throwing 1 of our 2 cbs up front against a United side with Falcao, Rooney, V Persie etc while we are drawing a clever managerial decision?

prawnsandwich said:

What was right with them? We needed a goal-he could have brought on Soldado and taken off Stambouli. He could have slung Fazio up front and gone long ball. He did not try for the win.

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Maybe on fifa, mate. With rvp, rooney and falcao there you'd take out our DM, or send a CB upfront? At 0-0 even. Crazy.

Anyone who thinks that wasn't a good result is a troll and f**king moron. Meanwhile Leicester wins against Hull amd Burnley draw with Man City. We really are Form Finder FC.

I'm confused. Did people seriously think we would get 3 points? At home we have been piss poor.

We actually defended reasonably well. Kane could have scored first half, should have had a penalty in the second.

But man utd had Rooney, rvp, falcao and mata. We would take all 4 in our starting 11. They were expected to create more chances against us. I actually thought Fazio and Vertz had a great second half.

I'm happy with a draw. We are heading in the right direction. Chelsea is another test and I will take a draw again.

Oh and that game showed me what Kane is all about. I saw sensational Sheringham in him. That pass to Mason was sheringham. Totally proving my doubts about him wrong. Fantastic performance.

shelfboy68 said:

1) The fourth spot is anybodys right now and your right to say its not a closed door,2) but i must confess i think We again will fall short.
3) Despite a much better second half we never looked like scoring apart from masons effort 4) but Utd should have been three or four up by half time which would have made it irelavant for us.
5) As for schniederlin we wont get him due to us not wanting to go over ten million let alone close to thirty for him,6) same as we need a top notch striker to compliment Kane but again we will only get a cheap option probably someone young.
7) Our best chance of success is the CC as you mentioned 8) but Chelsea will be the likely opponents which we will struggle to beat 9) something we will see wednesday.

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1) It is.

2) Fine. All about opinions. I have no certainty (but a few quid to win at Ladbrokes) that we will make top 4. Just thought that considering we are improving, our fitness is very good and helping at the end of matches and we are improving as we adapt to Poch and his ways, and the majority of our technically most difficult matches will be out of the way half way through the season. The poster I was responding to was being a bit too emphatic in stating that, what I thought was a very good point towards top four, had a finality to it in ruling us out.

3) Yeah, but we should have had one penalty and maybe another two, Young should have been off for bringing down Townsend, and they had another few who were flirting with a red card.

4) I never get this talk. United dominated the 1st half. That we weren't behind at half-time was slightly unexpected. It was, in part, to one of our players doing what he is paid to do - so no luck involved there. And c'mon, you'll have seen as many games as I have were a team dominates, scores, and then the whole pattern of the match changes. If we had went behind, we may well have adjusted, went at them all guns blazing and wiped their sorry asses off the face of the Earth. They wouldn't have scored and then started play in the same place, with exactly the same mentalities and in the same positions as when they missed the chance that we are hypothesising went in. Let's just say they really should have been ahead at half time and leave it at that, eh

Besides, my argument was based on knowing that the result was 0 - 0 and we got a point

5) True enough. It may be too late for Schneiderlin. Let's just wait and see. maybe Poch is serious that if we don't buy anyone he is fine with it - maybe he has an ace up his sleeve (some master-plan that will turn Dembélé from the nearly man with everything but a heart (Wizard of Oz, like) to some kind of Uber-goal machine, dominating midfields and then using the ball perfectly every time?

6) We will see. Afaiac, we have seen our attacking play really coming together in recent matches, with some great link up play, hindered ultimately by some poor decision making. I am quite excited about that. IMHO, the one thing we absolutely need right this minute is an experienced (and that is that vital bit) central midfielder capable of dominating the centre of the park. The best fit we know for Poch's system is Schneiderlin. So, if we buy one player I want it to either be him or someone else capable of filling the role.

7) Or Europa. Or top 4.

8) Maybe, but I would get immense satisfaction from watching the Mickeys getting all uppity with their I'm nor'avin tha...it's rrrrr year BS and then stuffing them in the final

9) We will beat the Chavs next up - you heard it here first

In all honesty, Lloris and the woodwork saved us.

parj said:

I'm confused. Did people seriously think we would get 3 points? At home we have been piss poor.

We actually defended reasonably well. Kane could have scored first half, should have had a penalty in the second.

But man utd had Rooney, rvp, falcao and mata. We would take all 4 in our starting 11. They were expected to create more chances against us. I actually thought Fazio and Vertz had a great second half.

I'm happy with a draw. We are heading in the right direction. Chelsea is another test and I will take a draw again.

Oh and that game showed me what Kane is all about. I saw sensational Sheringham in him. That pass to Mason was sheringham. Totally proving my doubts about him wrong. Fantastic performance.

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One of the Manu four forwards would be great and take us forward as a club

Blake Griffin said:

yet the results say we do perfectly fine with him on the left so he obviously doesn't do too much damage there defensively, i'm not convinced chadli is better in that regard either. but hey, let's stick eriksen in a position where he's creatively stifled, marked out of the game and provides a goal or an assist once every four games all because he looks like a #10, even though he's done nothing there to suggest he's an effective one.

http://theinsidechannel.com/2014/11/28/analysis/tactics/christian-eriksen-isnt-number-10/

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I think your comments are overly-simplistic. Eriksen is flexible enough to play as any one of the attacking/supporting three. The most relevant thing here is that it's clear enough that Pochettino's approach is to encourage the trio to switch positions and roles frequently - he was quoted referring to Eriksen's 'free role' only this week. He doesn't have a 'position', in the sense that if he is getting suffocated in the middle, he can swap with a teammate and drift out wide, or vice versa.

The main reason why Eriksen wasn't getting any joy in the first half today is because he was facing Michael Carrick, The League's Most Underrated Midfielder, who is as good a footballer as Christian Eriksen, is 32 years old and has played against everyone in the universe at the highest level. You couldn't design a better deep-lying midfielder to contain a player like Eriksen: Carrick doesn't clog people, he rarely leaves his feet and he doesn't get caught out of position, he just gets to the ball before you and strokes it to one of his teammates.

What I found most encouraging is that, as the game wore on, our high level of fitness started to tell - fancy that, we have a fitter team than the rich-boys at Man Utd - and Carrick wasn't marshalling Eriksen effectively anymore. If that game had lasted another 10 minutes, I reckon we would have won it.

'Formations' get way too much attention here. They aren't really the way a football match works.