- May 15, 2007
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What about De Gea?United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.
What about De Gea?United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.
Last summer - Everton held onto Stones when Chelsea came in, and WBA held onto Berahino when we came in. Stoke bought Shaqiri - Stoke!?!?
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt... The season we hold on modric , we ended up in higher position in the league ... This time everton is higher than chelsea...Clubs are hardly likely to get the best out of players if their heads are turned. I'm not sure its the best plan to hold onto head turned players, I think Levy's got that 100% right.
Well Moyes was picked by them, first choice and LVG ran out of Levy's office was he got their text, United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world, yes their reputation has taken a dent but I think they could compete for players. Look at De Gea.
Sorry to cast aspersions, but if this was the case, why didn't we get Schneiderlin...No you are assuming they would and there is absolutely no precedent anywhere in which more than half the first team and all the best players decided to leave at the same time, it just doesn't happen.
They were told that the club wanted to sell them to realise it's assets and bring in cash for the new owner, that being the case there is not a coach of Pochottino's ambition in the world that would have stayed.
Please don't think I make assumptions, I always try to deal in reality and the reality is that though the players may well in time have looked to move on it wouldn't have been then and it wouldn't have been en masse, they didn't move because Cortese left, Cortese left because they were going to be sold, and he didn't leave because they were his mates and he was going to miss them either.
What about De Gea? the fact he is still there? Wouldn't be if someone hadn't ballsed up the paper work...
What about De Gea?
Umm he signed a new contract? If United were a lower teir team now why would one of the best keepers in the world choose to stay when top qaukity keepers are very hard to come by?
I think this notion that teams are now able to hold onto their best players is vastly overplayed - West Brom and Everton will eventually sell Stones and Beharino because they will run down their contracts to the point it will be in the clubs best interest to get some money for them before their value completely depreciates. The new TV deal makes no difference in that respect as players will still want to move onto bigger clubs so they get bigger wages. Therefore the order of clubs will not change as the best players will still end up at the biggest clubs.
Glad you liked the post. I will concede that my emotions have twisted for fewer years than some so my creamy optimistic center is not as pessimistically coated. However, I must say that my post contained few, if any, "assumed facts". So I shall clarify.
I can and I did. Moreover, I qualified it with the parenthetical note "or he was allowed to walk" under which 'resigning' would fall. I would say a very fair representation. Would you not? We can/may never know what truly happened (fired, constructively dismissed, not renewed, etc) but the outcome was the man to whom Poch felt loyal (according to his words) -was no longer there. In your mind was Mourinho 'mutually consented'? For the simple-minded, yes. But for the more insightful clearly Roman dropped the hammer. But the 'facts' are that it was mutual. Go with the 'facts' if you must.
In a few sentences you ask whether I have clear insight into Poch's mind. Very good point I will address directly later but similarly, do you have the right to impute your values onto him and then judge him accordingly? "Poch could" do many things but I am fairly certain that it is up to him to decide what they are and not you, me, or anyone else. Poch may never have professed his loyalty to the club or the fans. But by his own words he did feel a loyalty to Cortese and the situation played out as it did.
Players come and players go. To quote a very wise man "This is football"! I would trust that he is wise enough to understand this and to know which players he could get back onside and which would have to be moved. But I would also trust that if proper replacements are brought in the everyone could get on with it. Accordingly, I would expect that if there were a player upon whose hill Poch was willing to die that said player would not be moved on. If so, then disloyalty begets disloyalty.
You explicitly did not but that was through the crafty use of 'weasel words'. But you more than implied it when you said these things amongst others. Do they strike a bell?
No, I claim no special conduit into Poch's mind. But it is telling that in a paragraph composed entirely of hypotheticals (even that sentence was about possible outcomes) you pick out a secondary phrase that I did not unambiguously qualify as such. The paragraph was about individual's inability to conceive of a mind unencumbered by their own constraints.
No, but I will expound (not being pedantic, just like that word more). Big club bias, Big 6/5/4, CL clubs, money clubs, transfer/wage budget rankings, etc. Pretty simple actually. There was a mail to F365 a few weeks back that eloquently addressed this. Even supporters of 'small' clubs fall into this. Like the Leicester City debate that ranges and the default to 'they can't win it' though the evidence shows that they are not in a false position. They can beat anyone on the day. Similarly, all things are possible at a club like Spurs. Perhaps Poch sees this and this is what the players are to when they speak of 'changing the mindset'.
me too!
Whether intended or not your first 4 sentences here are patronizing. You cautious words are perhaps warranted considering what your experiences may have been. But they are misdirected for me. Please understand that my optimism is not blind and I am aware of the banality of nothing lasting forever. Moreover, I never even implied that this good fortune/form will last any longer than the next game. To paraphrase a wise man, I never said it did.
But what I do know, and what you seem to be struggling to come to terms with, is that our efforts now are not dependent on what has happened in the past. This mindset is why I wanted Harry gone more than anything. It was clear that he saw Spurs in a certain way; the "Lads, it's Spurs" and the "you've never had it so good" way. F*ck him and all the pundits and their intractable mindset. Maybe it is the unconstrained ambition of an Argentinian that was needed to bust through these glass ceilings.
So everyone has a choice (and by no means is it binary): to enjoy the moment on its merits or constantly temper everything with cautions of past failures. I know which I am choosing and I prefer it without a side of "pissed-on cornflakes" so to speak.
EDIT: I took the time to develop a thoughtful and considered response. I have now had the time to read the subsequent responses from others and am starting to believe that you have no intention of seeing things a different way. To say that I regret taking the time would be understatement.
Because we left it until he came back from the world cup before finalising a deal by which time, and particularly after they sold chambers, fans and Koeman had reacted and they realised that they had gone too far; that said if we'd paid what they were asking we'd no doubt have got him before they put the block on.Sorry to cast aspersions, but if this was the case, why didn't we get Schneiderlin...
The new TV deal will make more of a difference to those currently on the lower end of the income scale than it will to those at the top. All of a sudden
It will make a difference but I don't think it will be as big as is being speculated. At the end of the day teams who pay the biggest wages get the best players. The new TV deal isn't really going to change that.
So United get a fee for him in the summer when they sell him to Real Madrid.... do you really think he had a sudden change of heart and no longer wants to join Madrid and fully intends to stay at United? come on....
I agree Donki, Utd are bigger than anyone else and given the choice between say, West Ham and Utd no doubt a player would choose them but where before they would go to Utd or Chelsea knowing they probably won't get to play very much if at all, because the wages were massively higher they will now look seriously at West Ham for a little less money but they'll get to play and maybe even close the gap more with appearance and win bonus.HE may well go to Madrid, but he signed the contract, United didnt have to offer it to him and he didnt have to accept it. Manchester United are still one of the biggest clubs in England, if not the biggest IMO. Look at their comerical revenue and their fan base. We give off about City and Chelsea for being plastic and Arsnal for winning nothing, I HATE United (due to most of my friends supporting them) but we need to be honest with ourselves.
You explicitly did not but that was through the crafty use of 'weasel words'. But you more than implied it when you said these things amongst others.
I see EVERY reason why Poch's ambition will end with us and why he will go on to become the Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson of Tottenham Hotspur and end his career with us. I don't see any reasons, limitations, or constraints as to why this can't be done, other than possible changing circumstances in the future. That is what I'm warning about.Perhaps, you see all the reasons, limitations, and constraints as to why this can't be done and you, or any other naysayer, train your focus thusly.
I don't think we disagree do we? We are both optimistic and are both aware of the potential for things to change given the nature of the modern game.I have now had the time to read the subsequent responses from others and am starting to believe that you have no intention of seeing things a different way.
Uh nope, not me. Why would anyone think that our efforts now are dependent on what has happened in the past? That wouldn't make any sense. Harry thought this? Are you sure?But what I do know, and what you seem to be struggling to come to terms with, is that our efforts now are not dependent on what has happened in the past.
There's that VERY loose definition of "troll" again. I love how its defined by some as presenting a point of view.You let SMC troll you all, for shame.
There's that VERY loose definition of "troll" again. I love how its defined by some as presenting a point of view.
Well yeah I am, but I think we're ALL trolls based on your definition, no?You're a troll, be proud Chris, be proud
How the Poch has this reached 9 pages?