Kaboul

He'll come good, once Ledley is back, he'll show him how it's done, in just the same way he did with Dawson. I think he'll be a cracking player once he gains more experience, yeah, he's to blame for quite a few of our conceded goals but he just looses his head now & then, this will be something he'll work on & won't happen in the future, I'm sure.

ChRiStOpHe said:

Not sure what you're looking to acheive here Stoofy.





You start off by defending the French league, stating that Kaboul would have gained his reputation playing against some very good players, then you go back to how you're not a fan. Surely if you're canny enough to realise that the French league really isn't that bad, you're also canny enough to realise that Kaboul has the making of a very good player, and as such, surely we should be getting behind the lad :?

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Not reputation. Games. Experience. He's not as 'young' in footballing experience terms.

Come on Stophe was it that hard a concept to grasp?

I'm not saying he's gained a reputation - I'm just saying he's had to face some good players for a sustained period of time prior to coming to us - so should he really still be of schoolboy mistake mentality?

No is the answer.

It's not about "getting behind him" - that's a given - and to be fair it annoys the hell out of me when people use that as an argument - I don't think after reading any one of these threads that someone will go out and actively slate or boo a player, but on the same note we can discuss and will discuss.

Stoof said:

but on the same note we can discuss and will discuss.

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The Stoof has spoken!

Stoof said:

Not reputation. Games. Experience. He's not as 'young' in footballing experience terms.

Come on Stophe was it that hard a concept to grasp?

I'm not saying he's gained a reputation - I'm just saying he's had to face some good players for a sustained period of time prior to coming to us - so should he really still be of schoolboy mistake mentality?

No is the answer.

It's not about "getting behind him" - that's a given - and to be fair it annoys the hell out of me when people use that as an argument - I don't think after reading any one of these threads that someone will go out and actively slate or boo a player, but on the same note we can discuss and will discuss.

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You're wrong.

Stono said:

Spurs fans are such a patient lot....

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Please note that this thread was not started for the fans to write him off, just merely suggesting that he will not have made a great impression on Ramos & will probably be dropped when we have a returning CB, which is looking to be Rocha.

I was dissappointed with his attempt to go straight to the dressing room after he was subbed, only for Poyet to tell him to get on the bench.

He should be watching the team

Kendall said:

I was dissappointed with his attempt to go straight to the dressing room after he was subbed, only for Poyet to tell him to get on the bench.

He should be watching the team

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He must have been absolutely gutted to have made the mistake to cost us the goal, and then be subbed before the hour mark. Give the lad a break.

Flatters said:

He must have been absolutely gutted to have made the mistake to cost us the goal, and then be subbed before the hour mark. Give the lad a break.

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I will give the lad a break when he stops giving goals away and getting subbed before the hour mark. :wink:

I was dissapointed, not heckling the screen or anything, I just felt he could've bumped his credibility up by taking his place on the bench.

I like him & I want him to suceed but this isn't some academy pup or £500,000 obscure signing, this is £8m worth of defender.

Stoof said:

I will give the lad a break when he stops giving goals away and getting subbed before the hour mark. :wink:

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I only mean for apparently walking to the dressing room and having to be told to sit in the stand.

Stoof said:

Not reputation. Games. Experience. He's not as 'young' in footballing experience terms.

Come on Stophe was it that hard a concept to grasp?

I'm not saying he's gained a reputation - I'm just saying he's had to face some good players for a sustained period of time prior to coming to us - so should he really still be of schoolboy mistake mentality?

No is the answer.

It's not about "getting behind him" - that's a given - and to be fair it annoys the hell out of me when people use that as an argument - I don't think after reading any one of these threads that someone will go out and actively slate or boo a player, but on the same note we can discuss and will discuss.

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Fair point, but I don't agree

"Not reputation. Games. Experience. He's not as 'young' in footballing experience terms."

I made the comparison to a 'young' Rio Ferdinand, and I'll stick to it. He never convinced me totally at West Ham. Not even up to the day he left for a whopping £18m to join Leeds. I could see he had the talent - he even made his England debut while still at the Hammers. A lot of my family support West Ham, and only my uncle rated him. The rest, plus some friends of mine thought he was utterly clueless. I'm worried that 12 months down the line the general consensus will be that Kaboul is a clown. He's not. Anyone who can see he has it in him to be a great (Spursking, I'm looking at you buddy :wink knows we should persist with him.

"I'm not saying he's gained a reputation - I'm just saying he's had to face some good players for a sustained period of time prior to coming to us - so should he really still be of schoolboy mistake mentality?"

Well, he did gain a reputation. One that alerted the likes of Juventus, Roma, Chelsea and us. You're right in that he had to face some top players in his time in France, and that's where the reputation came from.

Rio Ferdinand played 127 times for West Ham, obviously in England. Kaboul played 52 times for Auxerre - obviously all outside of England. Rio made 'schoolboy mistakes' throughout his time at West Ham, and even after. He had more than double the games Kaboul had before his big move. He even played those games in the EPL. Kaboul has had to adjust to a different Country, a different culture, and that's before you look at the footballing side of things.

For those that believe he needs more 'experience' can i ask..

Would we or should we have paid 8 Million for a player who we believe needs 1 or 2 seasons more experience before he becomes a good solid centre back!? Can we afford that luxury?! If yes then it's wrong, especially with the injury problems Ledley King is having.

He might well become a fantastic centre back but I think we are right to have expected a little more from a player that cost 8 million. But hey at least he looks better then Dean Richards and he cost 8.1 million!

Kendall said:

I was dissappointed with his attempt to go straight to the dressing room after he was subbed, only for Poyet to tell him to get on the bench.

He should be watching the team

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I can understand that but I can also imagine how he felt, he must have been gutted with himself, I much prefer that than someone throwing their shirt down or blanking the manager.

I also respected Poyet for making him come back, I like to see that discipline.

I fucking love Gus, he won't let any of them be prima donnas

Robbiepope said:

For those that believe he needs more 'experience' can i ask..

Would we or should we have paid 8 Million for a player who we believe needs 1 or 2 seasons more experience before he becomes a good solid centre back!? Can we afford that luxury?! If yes then it's wrong, especially with the injury problems Ledley King is having.

He might well become a fantastic centre back but I think we are right to have expected a little more from a player that cost 8 million. But hey at least he looks better then Dean Richards and he cost 8.1 million!

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That's how it works though. Sometimes you have to spend a lot on the players who just have a lot of potential, because they'll be wanted by a number of people, including the team they currently play for. It's all about what you think the player is worth paying for, for the amount of time you think you're going to have them. We paid £8m for him because we believe in the time he will spend with us, that £8m was worth paying for him. That doesn't have to mean that he's going to be a world class player immediately. The same goes for Darrent Bent. We think he is, or will be worth what we paid for him. It's why we paid it.

Flatters said:

That's how it works though. Sometimes you have to spend a lot on the players who just have a lot of potential, because they'll be wanted by a number of people, including the team they currently play for. It's all about what you think the player is worth paying for, for the amount of time you think you're going to have them. We paid £8m for him because we believe in the time he will spend with us, that £8m was worth paying for him. That doesn't have to mean that he's going to be a world class player immediately. The same goes for Darrent Bent. We think he is, or will be worth what we paid for him. It's why we paid it.

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and it works the other way, in that looking at things now - we had an absolute bargain with Berba!!

LadieK said:

and it works the other way, in that looking at things now - we had an absolute bargain with Berba!!

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Well of course.

When Wenger bought Henry for... £11m was it? At the time it looked like an awful lot, and a lot of fans didn't think it worth it, but they were damn sure proven wrong over the years, weren't they?!

Who's to say the same won't happen with Kaboul, and Bent? It's why we got 'em. Just have a little faith.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

This is a right 'old skool' SC debate :hump:

Robbiepope said:

For those that believe he needs more 'experience' can i ask..

Would we or should we have paid 8 Million for a player who we believe needs 1 or 2 seasons more experience before he becomes a good solid centre back!? Can we afford that luxury?! If yes then it's wrong, especially with the injury problems Ledley King is having.

He might well become a fantastic centre back but I think we are right to have expected a little more from a player that cost 8 million. But hey at least he looks better then Dean Richards and he cost 8.1 million!

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Big money=even bigger expectation. Jol himself said that we decided to go for Kaboul rather than Distin or Chivu (and it's wildly unlikely that Chivu would have come to us anyway) because he would develop into a better player than either. It's not his fault that he cost £8m, any more than it was Richards', and it's not his fault that he's been chucked in at the deep end because Gardner, Rocha and Ledders have all been crocked. It's not his fault that Dawson, for whom the 'inexperience' excuse is fast running out, has been giving regular and convincing impersonations of a stunned goldfish instead of taking the role of senior partner.

Really, he should have been getting acclimatised in the ressies and getting a few sub appearances, because the pace of the Premier League is a world away from Ligue 1, and the overall quality a good deal higher.

Kaboul continues a very worrying trend in Comolli signings. I haven't been as anti Comolli as many, but if you look at the majorty of his signings the are very Spurkingesque. What I mean by this is that they all have obvious physical attributes and most are skillful and technically sound. But, they all seem to be seriously lacking in the other 50% of what makes a good player - ie mental attributes. No matter how physically impressive or how much technical ability a players has, it is all worthless without being able to read a game, postion themselves and make the rigth decisions etc. Obviously these things can improve with age, but they must be there to some degree to start with, but Comolli seems immune to realising this. We spent £8 million on Zokora, who is a great athelete, but in no way is he a Premiership standard midfielder. He had arguably his best performance this season in the second half yesterday playing at CB! The guy simply doesn't have the awareness, vision or decision making to be an effective DM. BAE has all the attributes you'd want in a LB, but there is something seriously lacking in that guys head. Half the time it looks as if he doesn't care. Ghaly was arguably one of our most naturally gifited players we had. He was strong and technically execellent, but if there was a wrong decision to be made, you could be sure Ghaly would make it. Chimbonda is another that has everything you'd want in a player in his positon, but when it comes to make the right choice deffensively, that guy as a natural instinct to make the wrong decision. And now we've got Kaboul. Like Zokora, I'd seen Kaboul and warned about him on the forum before we signed him. I can understand exactly what Comolli see's in him. The guy has so much natural ability and in other circumstnaces may well have been a good option to bring in and slowly develop (at a lower price £4 million). But even as an arm chair fan, watching the French league I could tell the guy wasn't mentally there yet. He is young and there is every chance this could change, but if you look at Comolli's other signings, it wouldn't be a suprise if it didn't.

So far he's spent £25 million+ on the players I've mentioned and none of them seem mentally good enough to play at the level we need. You can't doubt their physical attributes, but do you really need to employ a Director of Football to spot these. Even Spursking can spot a fast, strong, technically sound player, but the real skill is in identifying the less tangible assests a player has to offer and that is what a highly paid proffessional should be able to do. It wouldn't be so bad if they were youngsters we were paying a couple of million for, but we are often paying top whack.