Jermain Defoe (to Portsmouth)
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johnmc
New Member
- Sep 27, 2004
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Reserve team football for Jermain. That will really hurt his ego, but alas not his wallet.
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Reserve team football for Jermain. That will really hurt his ego, but alas not his wallet.
I suspect his wallet is big enough to cope but demotion to the stiffs would undoubtedly have some financial reprucussions for him.
Such asthe loss of appearance money and goal bonus's.
Bus-Conductor
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- Oct 19, 2004
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Is there not a possibility that both managers were/are being gently leaned on to keep Defoe on the fringe until he either signs a contract or agrees to be sold ?
I don't think Bent offers more than Defoe. Neither offer much when they are not scoring. Both are pretty much selfish strikers. They play slightly different ways. Bent hangs on the shoulder of the last man waiting for 1v1's. Defoe will make his own chances by running at a defender, dropping a shoulder and puting himself through or shooting from the edge. As such bent's chance conversion rate should be higher as he is almost totally dependant on team mates making clear chances. Defoe makes more chances but they are often out of nothing (bonus chances if you like) and harder to convert. You can argue the merits of both but the fact is that in terms of goals per minute Defoe's record is (I think) superior to Bents. I also think that Defoe has a little more skill than Bent but Bent is stronger.
Not much in it but Defoe edges it for me.
I don't think Bent offers more than Defoe. Neither offer much when they are not scoring. Both are pretty much selfish strikers. They play slightly different ways. Bent hangs on the shoulder of the last man waiting for 1v1's. Defoe will make his own chances by running at a defender, dropping a shoulder and puting himself through or shooting from the edge. As such bent's chance conversion rate should be higher as he is almost totally dependant on team mates making clear chances. Defoe makes more chances but they are often out of nothing (bonus chances if you like) and harder to convert. You can argue the merits of both but the fact is that in terms of goals per minute Defoe's record is (I think) superior to Bents. I also think that Defoe has a little more skill than Bent but Bent is stronger.
Not much in it but Defoe edges it for me.
- Jun 5, 2004
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- #126
ShiftAndShoot does what his Stoof-given-monicker suggests. This 'beating' of players is interesting. The only time I've seen him beat a man by not ShiftAndShooting (and then going on to score) is that little pirouette he did against Wigan last year (the 3-1) and when he out-paced that guy in the European game.
He doesn't beat men.
He doesn't beat men.
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
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Worth noting, I think, that just a few years ago we would have been desperate to keep hold of a striker as good as Jemain Defoe.
Now we are arguing whether we need him or not, seems to me we have travelled a long way.
If it's true that Juande Ramos has told him there's no place for him then all discusion is academic he will have to be on his way, sad for him but true.
It's a shame but football is a pitiless unforgiving game and as Spurs fans we know that as well as anyone.
Now we are arguing whether we need him or not, seems to me we have travelled a long way.
If it's true that Juande Ramos has told him there's no place for him then all discusion is academic he will have to be on his way, sad for him but true.
It's a shame but football is a pitiless unforgiving game and as Spurs fans we know that as well as anyone.
Bus-Conductor
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I had exactly this argument in the summer, Which is why at the time I highlighted the fact that Defoe's actual goals per minute ratio was better than Bent's. I highlighted this because, I argued and maintain still, is a far better way of assessing strikers as meriting what denotes a chance and even then what does it matter if a striker is making more chances for himself than the other stiker who only waits for great chances to come along. At the end of the day games are limited by time not chances. And Defoe manages more goals per minute.
stevenqoz
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- Apr 10, 2006
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As I said above, Ramos has inherited a very political situation here. If I were he, I would move toward resolution so that I could bring in my own players. I would probably tell Defoe that as the situation stands...with 18 months left on his contract.....commit or go.
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- #130
This season Defoe has a better goals per minute ratio than any of our strikers even if you include penalties of which Defoe has scored none.
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- #131
Out of interst how many of Defoe's goals this season have been as the result of a shift and shoot?
sloth
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- Mar 7, 2005
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Ha! Finally an opportunity to disagree with you BC
.Bent played almost his entire Charlton career as a lone striker. He was famed for his work-rate, his ability to pull out wide and then cut back inside, the fact that he could win the ball in the air even against bigger defenders and hold the ball up. He also had plenty of assists and early involvement in Charlton's attacking moves. Bent can play on his own or with any of the other three strikers.
Defoe could never in a month of Sundays play on his own, in fact he's even limited in who he can play alongside. It's for this reason we signed Bent and it's for this reason, I believe, Defoe is fourth choice with us.
SpurSince57
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- Jan 20, 2006
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But instances where a striker completely misses the ball a la Keane and Utaka are pretty rare. How many times will Keane (or anyone else) do that in a season? And if you're going to throw in the chance of a shot being lost because of fannying around in the area we'd be here forever. Really, I should have said 'scoring attempt' rather than 'chance' since the latter can and does cover a whole range of possibilities, from missing the ball altogether to passing when a pot at goal would have been a better option.
And Defoe's shot against Reading illustrates why he doesn't score as many as he should. His tendency is to go for it full-bore, and all too often he will hit it straight at the keeper when a couple of feet either side would make it truly unstoppable. Subtle placement has never really been his strong suit. Over the past four years he has probably had a higher proportion of shots on target than anyone else, but the conversion rate has been relatively poor.
As with all stats, it's imperfect, but it does underline the perception that over the past two seasons his scoring rate has fallen away considerably since 2004-2005, when he was putting one shot in five away (and I'd hazard a guess that over the first half of the season it was better still); in 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 it was one in eight or thereabouts. Yet you will still see him being called our 'most clinical' finisher. He's actually had more scoring attempts than Bent, although Bent has had almost twice as much time on the pitch.
And Defoe's shot against Reading illustrates why he doesn't score as many as he should. His tendency is to go for it full-bore, and all too often he will hit it straight at the keeper when a couple of feet either side would make it truly unstoppable. Subtle placement has never really been his strong suit. Over the past four years he has probably had a higher proportion of shots on target than anyone else, but the conversion rate has been relatively poor.
As with all stats, it's imperfect, but it does underline the perception that over the past two seasons his scoring rate has fallen away considerably since 2004-2005, when he was putting one shot in five away (and I'd hazard a guess that over the first half of the season it was better still); in 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 it was one in eight or thereabouts. Yet you will still see him being called our 'most clinical' finisher. He's actually had more scoring attempts than Bent, although Bent has had almost twice as much time on the pitch.
Real_madyidd
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- Oct 25, 2004
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I don't know i that holds true. I think you could put a bit of a cart horse up front for united and they would bang in quite a few goals per minute, purely down to the fact that they would get loads of chances.
- Jun 5, 2004
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- #135
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest: most. :lol:
I don't know Legend. He does it too often for you to not notice it though!
Reading: header.
Villa: volley.
Man City: near post first time.
Man City: smashed home tap-in.
Fulham: mini-ShiftAndShoot :wink:
Getafe: header.
Famagusta x 2: ShiftAndChip and ShiftAndShoot.
[yt]eDiHvvGxCEE[/yt]
Come now Legend, the above is the archetypal JD goal.
- Jun 5, 2004
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Otherwise known as "The Andy Cole Effect".
DoublePivot
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That is quite vicious and rude. And if ever meet you consider your first six pints paid for. :bowdown:
May I steal that one?
- Thread starter
- #138
But if you look at the 5 goals that Defoe has scored in recent games I would say none of them are smashes.
Man City at home he instictively found the space
Man City away a true strikers goal
Fulham at home an excellent passed finish
Reading at home got their 1st
Villa away an instinctive strikers finish
All well taken, no pulling of the trigger and hoping and what I really like about all of them is that I would call them all hungry goals, scored by a player who to me once again looks really hungry to score goals and a player who has refound some confidence that has been missing for a long long time.
I like Defoe and have stated on numerous occasions I prefer him to Keane but realistically he is never going to be a fixture at Spurs and for the benefit of all concerned he should move on.
But I do believe he is a much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit for and the thing I most like about him is that he is always a threat. He would have no quarms about hurting himself to score where as Keane wouldn't even consider taking a physical risk to score however vital the goal may be.
Man City at home he instictively found the space
Man City away a true strikers goal
Fulham at home an excellent passed finish
Reading at home got their 1st
Villa away an instinctive strikers finish
All well taken, no pulling of the trigger and hoping and what I really like about all of them is that I would call them all hungry goals, scored by a player who to me once again looks really hungry to score goals and a player who has refound some confidence that has been missing for a long long time.
I like Defoe and have stated on numerous occasions I prefer him to Keane but realistically he is never going to be a fixture at Spurs and for the benefit of all concerned he should move on.
But I do believe he is a much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit for and the thing I most like about him is that he is always a threat. He would have no quarms about hurting himself to score where as Keane wouldn't even consider taking a physical risk to score however vital the goal may be.
SpurSince57
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- Jan 20, 2006
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Exactamundo.
- Thread starter
- #140
I would give you 1 shift and shoot Stoof, being the 2nd against Famagusta.
None of the others are shift & shoots although there is nothing wrong with the shift and shoot anyway, much better that than trying to drive the ball straight through defenders as some do.
As for the others that you have questioned, you surely aren't serious about the 1st Famagusta goal so I'll ignore that and Fulham was what I would call a drag & pass finish in that he dragged the ball away from the last defender and passed it past the keeper.
He has seriously scored some really good strikers goals this season.
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