2 Points From 8 Games / 39 Points from 24 Games

[Coyboy]

Ramos had a highly lucrative 5-year contract. Perhaps he just made a realistic judgement as to which trophies Spurs had a chance of winning in season 2008-9.



The players have to share a lot of the blame. A lot of our players didn't show up from the Carling Cup Final to Redknapp's arrival. Perhaps they didn't like Ramos' methods, but that still doesn't excuse their massive level of underperformance.

Scolari clearly is a motivational coach, but Drogba wouldn't play for him. Drogba busted a gut for Mourinho. Didn't turn up for Scolari. And is now busting a gut for Hiddink and is back, pretty much, to the force he was under Mourinho. Why?

Only Drogba can explain that. But I'm not convinced it's all down to Scolari.

Similarly, I think some of our players have to take a look at themselves and ask why they displayed such a lack of professional pride in their performances for six months.

Whilst some players are performing very well under Redknapp - notably Lennon, Modric and Benny - others have continued to underperform when given a chance. David Bentley take a bow. Unless his agent is waving a Rolex at him...

Ramos' "science" may have alienated some players. Ramos is not a charismatic type of coach. He is a disciplinarian, and demanded - and received - respect from his players at Sevilla. Some of his calls - eg trying to slim the Hud down to make him more mobile - were probably correct but didn't succeed.

I will accept that Ramos made some mistakes, but every coach in history has. However, I don't think he can bear sole responsibiltiy for our abysmal 2 points from 8 games. We had a bunch of international players who are much much better than that level of performance, and they have to share a lot of the responsibility.

Fair enough, I don't totally agree and think that you have to look at why such players did or did not perform. It may be after a day in the sun and a long walk Epping, that I am inclined to draw a line under this. Thanks for the debate.

 

[SpurSince57]

Jol's best season defensively was 2005-6 when we played 4 central midfielders across the pitch in front of a defence which included King, Lee & Stalteri. We conceded 38 goals.

The following season we conceded 54.

This season we have conceded 36 so far with 6 to play with a midfield that contained Modric and Lennon nearly all season.

That defensive solidity was largely due to the acquisitions of Ramos who managed to do what Jol catagoricvally couldn't. Identify the weakest links and radically improve them.

Ah, so Jol didn't know how to organise a defence! (According to you.)

Also (according to you) Ramos made a terrible mistake in picking Dawson ahead of Kaboul. Make up your mind.

Under Redknapp, we've conceded precisely one goal a game in the league—about as good as it's ever been with Spurs, except for 70-71. Under Ramos, it was 1.43. Under Jol, 1.3 (at the close of 2006-2007, it was 1.22). I await, breathlessly, your explanation of these figures, particularly in light of your assertion that Ramos identified weak links in the defence and improved them.

You bought the bullshit. You seem reluctant to admit that you wasted your money.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Ah, so Jol didn't know how to organise a defence! (According to you.)

Also (according to you) Ramos made a terrible mistake in picking Dawson ahead of Kaboul. Make up your mind.

Under Redknapp, we've conceded precisely one goal a game in the league—about as good as it's ever been with Spurs, except for 70-71. Under Ramos, it was 1.43. Under Jol, 1.3 (at the close of 2006-2007, it was 1.22). I await, breathlessly, your explanation of these figures, particularly in light of your assertion that Ramos identified weak links in the defence and improved them.

You bought the bullshit. You seem reluctant to admit that you wasted your money.

With an eight man defence Jol's spurs were defensively efficient. When he tried to expand and only played with two cntral midfielders his goals conceded went from 38 to 54.

Take out the season Jol played with a line of 4 central midfielders and his average goals per game conceded is worse Ramos's who played a much more expansive game.

You need to understand the dynamics of of tactics, which is why I clearly pointed it out for you in the original post. Any **** can be defensively efficiant if they set up 8 competant players to defend. Just ask Roy Hodson (with his band of Spurs rejects, Murphy, Davies etc).

From 2006-7 to his sack in 2007-8 Jol conceded an average 1.56.

So you think we would be better off now with Jol's choice of Robinson, Dawson & Chimbonda ? Than Gomes, Woodgate & Corluka ?

Forget the stats and tactics if you like just tell me you agree with Jol about Robinson and Dawson ?

 

[Coyboy]

For 22 out of the 38 games in 05/06, BC, Aaron Lennon started. Hardly a water carrying defensive midfielder, even now, and especially then. Add to that that Jermaine Jenas was a much more attacking player. Criticise Jol legitimately but don't try to decieve, it's churlish.

A key reason for our tight defence was the midfield but it is more complicated than that and is due in large part to a fit King, a consistent defence and just plain consistency and excellent performances from players you seem to loathe to give any praise whatsoever, Dawson and Robinson.

 

[DC_Boy]

is that 1.68 ppg now?

 

[RussellYid]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5210725,00.html

On a side note gents...

Apparently we had two points from eight games when Redknapp arrived. :grin:

It never gets old to me!

Definitely a wind-up now!

 

[DC_Boy]

HR can say what he likes - if he gets us 7th and a cup final from where we started it's a terrific topp top sensational performance from Harry

 

[RussellYid]

HR can say what he likes - if he gets us 7th and a cup final from where we started it's a terrific topp top sensational performance from Harry

Agree completely. Stunnin' job he's done for us.

 

[lishiyo]

yup harry's ppg is currently 1.68, though there's no guarantee we'd have had that at the start given an adjustment period was obviously needed.

moyes - 52 out of 32 - 1.625 (keep in mind they had a very slow start though!)

MON - 54 out of 33 - 1.64

ppg isn't as important as 7th place though! come on harry, get us back into europe

 

[Delboy10]

Harry redknapp's blue and white army!!

 

[DC_Boy]

good stats lishiyo

and yes 7th is what matters

 

[donny1013]

We really should have a '2 points 8 games' song by now.

 

[3Dnata]

We really should have a '2 points 8 games' song by now.

Harry,Harry how many points did we have after 8 games?

A hand-sign reply could get him in trouble though.
Seriously though his run since he's been here also includes a 6 games 3 points run.
If he could get the squad he wants and we could eliminate blips like that -19 games 39 points if I say what type of form that is I'll be accused of being delusional.

 

[Destroyer]

We really should have a '2 points 8 games' song by now.

Or 42 points from 25 games song ???

Good old Arry !!!

still cant believe we only has 2 points from 8 games ??

Incredible.

 

[Bobishism]

I will accept that Ramos made some mistakes, but every coach in history has. However, I don't think he can bear sole responsibiltiy for our abysmal 2 points from 8 games. We had a bunch of international players who are much much better than that level of performance, and they have to share a lot of the responsibility.

you've changed your tune! :razz:

 

[Destroyer]

http://www.whoareyadesigns.com/2_points_8_games_1_hero_p/sup1.htm

 

[Destroyer]

 

[Bus-Conductor]

For 22 out of the 38 games in 05/06, BC, Aaron Lennon started. Hardly a water carrying defensive midfielder, even now, and especially then. Add to that that Jermaine Jenas was a much more attacking player. Criticise Jol legitimately but don't try to decieve, it's churlish.

A key reason for our tight defence was the midfield but it is more complicated than that and is due in large part to a fit King, a consistent defence and just plain consistency and excellent performances from players you seem to loathe to give any praise whatsoever, Dawson and Robinson.

You make a fair point about Lenon, I hadn't realised he'd started just over half our games (I made it 21 when I looked), but we still played just under half with 4 CM's and the rest with 3. Jenas was probably the most attacking of them - which tells you everything. The others were Davids, Tainio, Carrick, Mendes & Brown.

And as you will remember, it wasn't just who played but how we played. We played a far more defensive game that season, which even Jol spoke about when referring to how he tried to play a more expansive game the following year.

There was no attempt to deceive, I just hadn't checked the appearances for individual players. I did also state that it was tactical as well.

And I don't give any credit to Robinson at all. I think from a long way out I was calling him shit (using the term relatively) and 100% stand by that.
Dawson was always a liability, and still is. But I did give Dawson credit for being game.

 

[danielneeds]

Dawson was always a liability, and still is. But I did give Dawson credit for being game.

Calling Dawson a liablity is plain worng. Yes, he has limitations, but his form has been excellent his Harry came. Add to the fact that him and King were part of our tighest defence in our Premier League history, then that comment looks absurd.

His game fell to pieces under Ramos, whether that was due to coaching, or the fact that he needs to play with a very positionally astute player as his defensive partner to get the best out of his qualities, I am not sure, I suspect a bit of both.

 

[SpurSince57]

His game went to pieces in the first half of last season because he ended up being paired with Kaboul—two players who both needed an experienced head alongside them not being a great idea, although we had no real option. Dawson gradually started to regain confidence and composure after Woody came in. And whilst he is prone to dropping clangers, the same can be said of most other CBs in the EPL.

Jol did adopt cautious tactics in 2005-2006, but that was a matter of making the most effective use of the players he had available. He certainly isn't the first Spurs manager to fail to get us to walk and chew gum at the same time—Nicholson never really sorted the defence on a consistent basis, otherwise we'd have won a lot more silverware in the 60s than we did, and Burkinshaw didn't either. But of course the real problem was less his attempting to get us to play a more expansive style than the injuries which meant we struggled to play the same back four for more than two or three games in a row (and midfield was hardly any better). And of course Carrick was gone, and Davids was visibly struggling with the pace of the EPL.