4-4-2 next season, I have no clue

[KeaneIsKeane]

Do you think we'll be playing a 4-4-2 next season I know this has been talked about in different threads involving players and so forth, but we've seen all the top teams move away from 4-4-2 and I don't think as of now we have the two CMs we need to play a 4-4-2 effectively and by effectively I mean push for that 4th spot. Granted we could pick them up in the transfer market, but that is yet to be seen and nothing is guaranteed there. The only 4-4-2 I could see us playing is like at Seville where the two CMs are more DMs with the full backs and wingers being the key to the attack. One of the biggest things about not playing a 4-4-2 is I think Keane would lose a lot of playing time unless we play 4-2-3-1 and he plays the Gerrard role (in behind the striker) with Bent or Eto'o or whoever playing the Torres role.

 

[Kyras]

It's a mystery to us all it seems. Maybe we'll not stick to one concrete formation next season, and rotate formation with players. I can't see us being effective in a 442 without berbatov though, agree with the comment about sevilla's formation, but surely it would become effectively a 4231 as keane would just drop off behind an athletic stiker.

 

[klintheman]

4-4-2 is still the best formation depending on players (in my opinion)

I know that Utd and Chelsea have had success over recent years by switching to the 4-4-3 but when you have two strikers that work so well together i.e Berba and Keane, then you've got to play to their strenghts.

I'd love to see

................Robb

Hutton...King...Woodgate...Bale

Lennon...Jenas...Hudd....Modric

.............Keano...Berba

 

[AlexSkree]

4-4-2 is still the best formation depending on players (in my opinion)

I know that Utd and Chelsea have had success over recent years by switching to the 4-4-3

So thats why United and Chelsea always seem to win:bang:

 

[van_Pommel]

4-4-2 is still the best formation depending on players (in my opinion)

I know that Utd and Chelsea have had success over recent years by switching to the 4-4-3 but when you have two strikers that work so well together i.e Berba and Keane, then you've got to play to their strenghts.

I'd love to see

................Robb

Hutton...King...Woodgate...Bale

Lennon...Jenas...Hudd....Modric

.............Keano...Berba

The Hudd and JJ in centre mid doesn't work. Neither does any of our current centre midfield pairings. For a 4 man midfield to compete against a 5 man midfield, the two central players muct be exceptional. The only team who have been able to do it successfully this season is Arsenal, even Liverpool looked poor when they were playing 442 and they have Gerrard! As soon as Liverpool changed to a 4231 they looked a much better team. It is highly unlikely that any team outside of the top 4 are going to be able to challenge the top 4 using a 442. Everton and Villa were the closest this season, Everton playing 4231 and Villa playing 433/451 (similar to United). It seems that packing the midfield is going to have to be the way forward. Personally I'd like to see every team in England go back to playing 442 which produces much more entertaining football, but thats probably never going to happen again.

 

[van_Pommel]

Those who watched the FA Cup final will realise how the 451 is making football a less entertaining game. Cardiff really wanted to play football but Pompey didnt. If Pompey had beem playing 442 it would have been a much more open game.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Those who watched the FA Cup final will realise how the 451 is making football a less entertaining game. Cardiff really wanted to play football but Pompey didnt. If Pompey had beem playing 442 it would have been a much more open game.

I don't think that 4-5-1/4-3-3 means less entertainment at all, it really just depends on the players you have for that system and the style of football the manager wants to play. You could have 4-4-2 with 2 big lumps upfront and just hoof it upfield all day, on the other hand you could have teams like Barca, Man U, sometimes Arsenal, R Mad that play with 1 up front but generally play good football. Argentina have played some of the best international football that I have seen with 1 up top.

I wouldn't be unhappy at all to see us playing with 1 striker next season if it meant we had 3 really creative players behind him.

 

[van_Pommel]

I don't think that 4-5-1/4-3-3 means less entertainment at all, it really just depends on the players you have for that system and the style of football the manager wants to play. You could have 4-4-2 with 2 big lumps upfront and just hoof it upfield all day, on the other hand you could have teams like Barca, Man U, sometimes Arsenal, R Mad that play with 1 up front but generally play good football. Argentina have played some of the best international football that I have seen with 1 up top.

I wouldn't be unhappy at all to see us playing with 1 striker next season if it meant we had 3 really creative players behind him.

I know what you mean. However alot of teams have taken on this system in an attempt to stop the opposition playing and then grabbing a goal on the break, like Portsmouth, Bolton etc, which is not entertaining.

If you have the flair players like Ronaldo, Messi, Robinho etc then it is entertaining.

 

[van_Pommel]

In fact this raises an interesting question. Keane was our player of the season and did very well. However does anyone think that we'd have finished higher if we had followed suit and played like Villa have this season:

---------------------------Robbo-------------------------

---Hutton----------Woody--------King------------Bale----

----------Jenas---------Zokora--------Huddlestone--------

--------Lennon----------------------------Steed----------

-------------------------Berba----------------------------


Or like Everton:

---------------------------Robbo-------------------------

---Hutton----------Woody--------King------------Bale----

-------------------Zokora--------Huddlestone-------------

--------Lennon-------------Jenas---------------Steed----

---------------------------Berba--------------------------

So would dropping Keane have benefited the team?

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I know what you mean. However alot of teams have taken on this system in an attempt to stop the opposition playing and then grabbing a goal on the break, like Portsmouth, Bolton etc, which is not entertaining.

If you have the flair players like Ronaldo, Messi, Robinho etc then it is entertaining.

Definitely, so if we can have 3 of Modric, Keane, Lennon, Malb etc providing amunition for Berba or Bent if he goes then I can only see that as a good thing. Take as much defensive responsibility in our half away from them and give them freedom to do damage in the opposition half, knowing that they have JJ and Zokora sitting deep to mop up.

 

[KeaneIsKeane]

I think 4-2-3-1 is the formation for us, but we need one more ball playing DM to pair with Zokora IMO. Particulary if Berbatov goes because Bent playing up front alone has the pace to stretch defenses which will create space for the three attacking players behind him, much like Torres. Our style would be different with Berbatov up front alone, we'd be trying to get the ball to Berbatov and then he'd be holding the ball up and bringing other players into the game. I think we kind of played in a style similar to this against Reading. Both Keane and Jenas were playing in behind Bent as he created space and Malbranque was constantly charging forward down the flank. Zokora and Hudd sat back more. It worked out quite well, but then again it was Reading. But assuming we get one more midfield player in addition to Modric I expect a lot more from our midfield next year.

 

[KeaneIsKeane]

Also I think playing with two DMs who are good DEFENSIVELY, will help cover for Hutton and Bale to charge forward, both who are pacey good attacking wingbacks. They are actually one of the main reasons I think we'd play a more attacking style of football with only one striker up front. Not many clubs have fullbacks who can get forward like Bale or Hutton, even in the Top 4 besides Arsenal and maybe Evra for United.

 

[michaelden]

My favoured formation is the 4-2-2-2 used by Italy with their marauding fullbacks and creative AMFs behind the 2 STs. It does rely heavily on the abilities of the 2 CBs and DMs to break up play and distribute the ball when in possession and the fitness of the FBs.

4-2-3-1 wouldn't be a terrible change either but I prefer 2 up front.

 

[TheWaddler]

It’s an intriguing one, Ramos used 4-4-2 at Sevilla and has almost exclusively used it with us (the only exceptions were the disastrous Birmingham and Newcastle home games where he went 4-3-3). I didn’t follow his career prior to Sevilla, but my guess is that is what he prefers, and it has brought him success, so why would he change?

At Sevilla he used two DMs, two wingers and very attacking full backs, with strong aerially dominant strikers. I would have said this was the way he was going with us as well, with the addition of Hutton and the teams he picked this season, but buying Modric has confused me, unless we play him as a left winger – which would be a waste. Likewise the Ronaldinho link, aside from how unlikely it is from a monetary and ambition viewpoint, would be an odd one unless we switched to 4-3-3 or he replaced Robbie Keane in the no.10 role (deep lying forward).

Whilst I agree that Man U and Chelski have had success with 4-3-3, as did Liverpool when they did it for a few months this season I would be worried if Ramos went that way as it’s not the system that has made him so successful.

:think:

 

[Banjo]

I definately like the 443 system.

I feel a 433 would require a world class central/defensive midfielder - a genuine leader. So far we are lacking there. I suspect we'll be going with a 442.

 

[Flatters]

So would dropping Keane have benefited the team?

Yes!! :lol:

 

[joey55]

It’s an intriguing one, Ramos used 4-4-2 at Sevilla and has almost exclusively used it with us (the only exceptions were the disastrous Birmingham and Newcastle home games where he went 4-3-3). I didn’t follow his career prior to Sevilla, but my guess is that is what he prefers, and it has brought him success, so why would he change?

At Sevilla he used two DMs, two wingers and very attacking full backs, with strong aerially dominant strikers. I would have said this was the way he was going with us as well, with the addition of Hutton and the teams he picked this season, but buying Modric has confused me, unless we play him as a left winger – which would be a waste. Likewise the Ronaldinho link, aside from how unlikely it is from a monetary and ambition viewpoint, would be an odd one unless we switched to 4-3-3 or he replaced Robbie Keane in the no.10 role (deep lying forward).

Whilst I agree that Man U and Chelski have had success with 4-3-3, as did Liverpool when they did it for a few months this season I would be worried if Ramos went that way as it’s not the system that has made him so successful.

:think:

Ramos used a 433/451 formation at Malaga. I think by using the Sevilla example, our fans are getting a bit of a false notion about Ramos. If you look at the players he inherited, 8/10 managers would have played exactly the same way. I keep reading about what people percieve to be the Ramos way of playing, but I think he'll be more adaptable. I'd guess when a coach first joins a side, the most natural thing is try them in a 442 and as it happens that formation was perfect for Sevilla. Had Ramos beeen the one who insisted on having the pacey FBs and wingers then we could be pretty sure it his preffered style of play. But the players he largelly used in those wide positions were all already at the club before his arrival. I think the only wide player bought during his time, was his former Malage player, Duda, who is more of a slow wide player, a bit like Downing (who Ramos apparently tried to buy for us).

 

[Flatters]

Ramos used a 433/451 formation at Malaga. I think by using the Sevilla example, our fans are getting a bit of a false notion about Ramos. If you look at the players he inherited, 8/10 managers would have played exactly the same way. I keep reading about what people percieve to be the Ramos way of playing, but I think he'll be more adaptable. I'd guess when a coach first joins a side, the most natural thing is try them in a 442 and as it happens that formation was perfect for Sevilla. Had Ramos beeen the one who insisted on having the pacey FBs and wingers then we could be pretty sure it his preffered style of play. But the players he largelly used in those wide positions were all already at the club before his arrival. I think the only wide player bought during his time, was his former Malage player, Duda, who is more of a slow wide player, a bit like Downing (who Ramos apparently tried to buy for us).

Pacey wingers are my favourite kind of players. :-(

 

[joey55]

Pacey wingers are my favourite kind of players. :-(

I think most people like them. In fact i get the impression reading alot of posts that many fans would rather see pace and trickery on the wings than producitivity. Look how many people don't rate Downing. The main purpose of a wide player is to create chances for strikers. Yet, season after season, Downing is consistently amongst the top few players in the entire Prem for chances created and still fans call him shit etc. This year Bentley was the only wide player who created more chances than Downing and last season only Giggs created more chances. Personally I can see why Ramos wanted him. I think Berbatov, Keane and Bent would have been pretty happy aswell.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Joey
I find it a little surprising that people are still convinced Ramos only likes one formation when he has demonstrated already (both poor choices on the day I felt though) a couple of times that he very prepared to alter his starting formation. Even at Sevilla it wasn't a strict 442. Kanoute often played very, very deep almost as an attacking midfielder with the wide men (inc fb's) bombing on and around the attack.
He tried to get Berbatov to play this role, but to be honest I don't think he was quite as good at it as Kanoute who is probably tailor made for it. Berbatov was better in the role than Keane (who Jol mistakenly tried to play there) because Berbatov isn't as scared of contact as Keane (which is vital in this role).

You say you think Ramos tried to sign Downing, but I find that hard to believe. The ITK (which could have been bollocks) suggested Ramos actually blocked it. The thing is Downing's agent was interviewed on SSN saying how much he would relish a move to spurs, so I find it very hard to believe that if Ramos ("he who must not be denied") wanted him we wouldn't have signed him. Don't you ?