Archway sheet metal works on fire

[yankspurs]

Im not in property insurance, just health. So i cant comment on the investigation practices. But what i do know is the obvious. The josifs are now going to get a huge wad of cash from Spurs AND the insurance company. "Retirement, here we come!" - Josif family.

Could be they got lucky, but guaranteed this will be investigated thoroughly by both the cops and the insurance company. If they tried making there own luck, their shit outta luck.

 

[StartingPrice]

It could be but there must have been a bit of planning go into it. If you have the time to plan and execute this, you should have time to work out that it's not really in the best interests of the club or your fellow fans. It could just as easily be a rival fan trying to throw a spanner in the works or as it's been mentioned, the owners themselves who will need to be seriously investigated.

A loan Spurs fan has everything to lose and nothing to gain as the CPO was just around the corner, even the most monstrous thug within our ranks (*cough* @StartingPrice *cough*) would know they're risking serious jail time and for what exactly?

Archsway [sic.] Sheet Metal Works...you have FAILED this city

 

[Spurger King]

For what it's worth my money is on Carlisle Group staging an electronic fire, caused by a laptop that just happens to burn images of Abramovich, Wenger, and the head honchos of the FA in a compromising position with the Archway owners onto the wall...date stamped.

That bunch don't do things by halves. I can imagine the conversation now...

Levy: "Our lives would be so much easier if the place would just burn to the ground."

Carlisle Group: "Understood."

Levy: "It was a joke."

Carlisle Group: "suuuuree, A joke, You're a funny guy. We like funny guys here." (whispers...."got Photoshop and the keys we made? You know what to do.")

 

[ravo]

The insurance people looking into this will be very, very good.

Agree with everything - although not so sure about this last bit. As someone also in the insurance game, this 'risk' (i.e the property plus any associated business interruption cover) is tiny. Without the small amount of media coverage this had had, insurers would have put a regular loss adjuster on the case, who would have liaised with the fire dept. as to causation.

Also, it's doubtful the underwriters would have had a property survey of the premises, a MFL calc, nat cat report or anything of the sort. It just wouldn't have values (in terms of TSI) to qualify for all the extra info that is required of larger risks. Their annual PD/BI premium would be 4/5 of fuck all.

That said, IF the Josifs had intentionally over-insured this property, any half-decent underwriter who is worth a pinch of shit would have been all over it like a rash, particularly if the values had changed significantly over the years, without proper back-up from the broker as to why. It's standard u/w procedure to at least ask for 3 years of insured values.

All insurance talk aside, I really hope they have tried a con job, as it's going to come back and bite them on the ass.

 

[ravo]

A

Im not in property insurance, just health. So i cant comment on the investigation practices. But what i do know is the obvious. The josifs are now going to get a huge wad of cash from Spurs AND the insurance company. "Retirement, here we come!" - Josif family.

Could be they got lucky, but guaranteed this will be investigated thoroughly by both the cops and the insurance company. If they tried making there own luck, their shit outta luck.

Agree. regardless of the causation, if they get paid out - IMO there is almost no chance of them restarting the business. They will pay off all the employees (if they liked them) and retire. Why the fuck not?

 

[arunspurs]

There are hundreds and thousands of buildings in London ; Whats the probability of this building of Archway getting caught in fire , accidentally ? 1 in a million may be.

 

[Flashspur]

You could cook a lot of kebab with a fire of that size....just saying

 

[arunspurs]

There has been cases where, say, car owners burn their own car & claimed he was attacked & attacker set car on fire. Within few days investigators were able to provide forensic evidence & nailed the owner.
But then, this is a 2400Sqm building - obviously more bigger & tougher. On things sure - Insurance company will be very thorough in their investigation - last thing they want is honor the claim.

 

[spursfan77]

With the insurance don't they only get the amount of the fire reinstatement value?

This is a lot less than the actually value of the property. It's basically the cost of rebuilding the premises.

 

[arunspurs]

With the insurance don't they only get the amount of the fire reinstatement value?

This is a lot less than the actually value of the property. It's basically the cost of rebuilding the premises.

The risk factor is key. Given there is substantial risk involved in property, insurance amount could have been bumped up to a higher value

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

No, but again it's not the "tangible" or "physical" strength itself, it's the ability to have access to arms that keeps things in check. I for one completely agree with Moore and V, the best form of government is most conducive when it is held more liable to the demands of its people, rather than vice versa. If you truly intend to create a government intended to protect "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (property in the original line)," it follows then that this government should be subject to its people, not the other way around.

I wish we could say peaceful resolution has resolved more, but that's not actually the case as it's only really worked in the last century in the scale of millenia of human history. As a bit more of a touchy case in point, the colonists had to wage an entire war simply for initially asking to be represented before taxation.

It is however, far and away ideally how everything should be resolved, and it's certainly a wonderful thing that the frequency of resolution per conflict has continued to sway in the direction of peaceful methods.

This really isn't the thread for this discussion but aren't the Gov liable to the demands of the people at elections? We don't live in the 19th century anymore, we live in the 21st. If you think citizens being armed keeps the government in check I'd say you're living in the land of make believe. The US State is better armed and more powerful than it has ever been. If it really wanted to suppress an armed civil uprising it could do it with it's eyes closed. Yeah you kicked us out with guns but that was a long long time ago and we were an ocean away. You can't compare that to the situation you live in now. I've visited the US several times and really liked the place and the people but there appears to be a cultural obsession with guns. Even in an age of us losing rather than gaining freedoms and it's the same here, guns are not the answer. It's not the State that kills with guns in the US it's the citizens killing each other with them. I'd love a written constitution and bill of rights in this country but not abolishing the 2nd amendment is IMO probably the biggest mistake you ever made.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

With the insurance don't they only get the amount of the fire reinstatement value?

This is a lot less than the actually value of the property. It's basically the cost of rebuilding the premises.

Yeah. & we pay them for the land & relocating them. Big win (if they get paid out)

 

[Wellspurs]

Yeah. & we pay them for the land & relocating them. Big win (if they get paid out)

Levy will relocate them for 4 years with a further 2 year option then loan them to Leyton Orient.

 

[spursfan77]

Yeah. & we pay them for the land & relocating them. Big win (if they get paid out)

Yeah I completely missed earlier about where the insurers would prefer to give them the money to build a new premises. Not sure they have the power to insist they build on another site though, for example, somewhere previously offered to them by thfc.

 

[Breezer]

With the insurance don't they only get the amount of the fire reinstatement value?

This is a lot less than the actually value of the property. It's basically the cost of rebuilding the premises.

Would Archways insurance pay to have the building restored? The CPO have already given them notice and it's only a matter of time before they have to close anyway. Surely there's no point rebuilding?

 

[SpurSince57]

I guess that really depends on how long the investigation from all parties involved will take. If it's quick, no one was hurt, they prove arson, find nothing to identify a specific person, and the Jobros just take the insurance money and move on then yeah, you're absolutely spot on. But I have to admit that @remember91's points do concern me a bit, as they give a more concrete idea of the sheer quality of the people investigating this.

I was also not aware that these insurance companies give financial incentive to the investigators themselves. Certainly makes sense, but I had not been privy to that knowledge prior.

As I posted earlier, I had it from my cousin in the fire service that they'll find out very soon if it was arson, because there will always be traces of accelerant at the seat of the fire. What's going to be much harder to determine is who did it (if anyone did).

 

[worcestersauce]

As I posted earlier, I had it from my cousin in the fire service that they'll find out very soon if it was arson, because there will always be traces of accelerant at the seat of the fire. What's going to be much harder to determine is who did it (if anyone did).

I guess even if they have CCTV footage of someone wearing a Spurs scarf chucking a molotov cocktail there's no saying its a Spurs fan, all comes down to whether it was set from inside or out, if its outside they'll probbaly never know.

 

[grandadgarry]

not really to do with this thread but don't know if people remember when alexandra palace was sold, because it was in such a bad state of repair and would cost millions to make it all good that they had to sell for one pound and a very short period later it burnt down, now I am no detective but that was one that really stank of insurance fraud

 

[DaSpurs]

This really isn't the thread for this discussion but aren't the Gov liable to the demands of the people at elections? We don't live in the 19th century anymore, we live in the 21st. If you think citizens being armed keeps the government in check I'd say you're living in the land of make believe. The US State is better armed and more powerful than it has ever been. If it really wanted to suppress an armed civil uprising it could do it with it's eyes closed. Yeah you kicked us out with guns but that was a long long time ago and we were an ocean away. You can't compare that to the situation you live in now. I've visited the US several times and really liked the place and the people but there appears to be a cultural obsession with guns. Even in an age of us losing rather than gaining freedoms and it's the same here, guns are not the answer. It's not the State that kills with guns in the US it's the citizens killing each other with them. I'd love a written constitution and bill of rights in this country but not abolishing the 2nd amendment is IMO probably the biggest mistake you ever made.

I think we're going to leave it at that since you still seem hinged on the physical presence of the guns being the predominant factor here, which as I've illustrated is not the case. And "cultural obsession with guns?" Where did you visit, a West Virginia hunting lodge? I've lived here my entire life, in multiple states (including Alabama), and I know very few people who own guns, much less talk about them. This will come off as more offensive than I intend it, but that is a ridiculous claim.

 

[DaSpurs]

As I posted earlier, I had it from my cousin in the fire service that they'll find out very soon if it was arson, because there will always be traces of accelerant at the seat of the fire. What's going to be much harder to determine is who did it (if anyone did).

Exactly. And furthermore, yet more difficult to determine the specific incentive (and even more an accurate one).