Arry the tactician

[steve]

Steve, Joey isn't right, as his theory assumes that someone who is educated, intelligent (in a general and footballing way) and who has played and watched football at various levels (UK, European & world) for many years is somehow less qualified to on occasion make a better tactical judgement than someone who wasn't particularly well educated (your average footballer), isn't particularly intelligent (your average footballer turned manager) who has probably watched football only slightly more than you have.

We are not talking coaching per se. Something which many managers don't have a great deal to do with anyway these days. We are talking here about tactics. Tactics isn't just substitutions, it's the utilisation of personnel to achieve the best outcome.

But in answer to your question I would have taken off the very ineffectual Defoe and the tiring (but who played well) Crouch and replaced them with Gudjohnsen and Kranjcar. I would have pushed Modric up to play with Gudjohnsen and put Kranjcar out on the left.

Villa were soaking up our ariel bombardment and our CM's were always mindful of not being caught on the break (and both rarely get into the oppositions box anyway), so what we needed to do instead of the predictable pattern that was emerging of us either trying to hit Crouch or getting as far as the 18 yard box and shooting was to carve open a proper chance where a defender couldn't fling himself in the way.

The substitution and use of, I am suggesting, wouldn't have changed our overall formation or our ability to contain Villa's break threat. It would have put two more intelligent thinkers and users of the ball up front that (along with Kranjcar) may have interacted better and more intelligently to break down a stubborn Villa defence.


And as my last pice of evidence against Joey's theory I call as a witness Dave Bassett.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I reckon I could beat most managers or footballers in an IQ test as could many others on here. We're talking about living and breathing something from a very young age through to a ripe old age and having the abilty/skill set to do it. We've all mostly played and watched footy since we were kids but we haven't lived and breathed it in the same way a pro has. The experience of playing under great managers, all those training sessions, playing and managing great players the whole nuts and bolts of being involved in a professional football club from top to bottom we just do not have.

I appreciate your suggestion and it's possible it may have worked but it's also more probable that it wouldn't. Players take time to get into games so you lose at least 5 minutes usually whilst they adjust to the tempo - substitute BOTH strikers and it's a double whammy. Add to that the usual last 15 minutes backs to the wall scenario where the defending team, under pressure, defend very deep, usually retreating into their own box with the midfield 4/5 sitting on the edge and even the striker(s) making sure they are behind the ball (which is what Villa did). The result is the ball either goes high into the box, is crossed from around the sides or long shots from outside the box rain in. I've seen better teams than us do it including Man Yoo and even Arsenal when they need a breakthrough at the end of games.

So leaving Crouch on was essential I think, Defoe's sharpish in the box was important too although him coming off may have been more reasonable (although he did win us a pen even if the ref didn't give it). There was just virtually no space for tippy tappy football in and around the box because there was 9/10 players camped there not giving us the room - so we bombard them instead. Only some top drawer defending from Villa kept us out it must be remembered and as I said before they have the meanest defence and are not a mug side like Hull/Wolves etc.

As for last night I think he made too many changes in one game. Palacios is essential given Jenas' fall from grace (probably the worst I've seen him) and Huddlestone becoming less and less effective as the season plays out. Charlie and Crouch I would've rested on Sunday instead. Kranky for Modders I don't mind although I prefer Modric obviously and have concerns about Kranky away from home as I think his bottle goes a bit (Liverpool and Leeds spring to mind).

The whole point is that of course we can question or criticise tactics but I would prefer it if people really considered every aspect of being a manager before they become too convinced that they are right and Redknapp is wrong. I think calling him to task over the Villa game is not the game to do it on but because it really isn't that clear cut. They all make mistakes (as do we all) but the teams at the top DO usually have the best players and give us back Carrick and Berbatov and we'd be in a 4 horse race for the title not for 4th place (or 6th as it may be now).

 

[Bobishism]

I must say, I never knew that joey preferred Mido ahead of Kanoute. Love Joey's posts on the whole, but that ranks up with those who gave up on Lennon while hailing Bentley as the chosen on, wrote off Bale, then Ekotto, then Bale, then Ekotto, and Dawson a few times in between, and genuinely believed that Chris Perry was a top class partner for Sulzeer Jeremiah.

Joey never. SS57 prefered Mido. He also thought Can't Control would be a waste of money (when we were being linked for a reported 2ish million) and generally implied Mido was better.

Joey believed that Bentley would replace Lennon because he was a much better quality footballer, but that one remains to be seen.

For what it's worth, BC never really rated Ekotto. But then he had a pretty shaky first year in the EPL.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I was responding to SS57's post but Joey has used stats to try and prove to me that we were a better team with Mido than Kanoute.

And I still don't overly rate Ekotto. He's probably marginally better than Bale defensively but is still prone to very "casual" moments, and sometimes goes into to tackles a bit half hearted. Attacking wise he's nowhere near Bale.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I hate to ruin the surprise for everyone but I've watched this movie before and I know the ending.

May 2010 - we fail to qualify for CL
June - Aug 2010 - we sell and buy a large number of players, net spend is small but gross purchases high, we overpay for players with promise while buying no finished articles
Aug 2010 - Our chairman tells the fans that given the spending on purchases he expects the manager to deliver CL football
Sep 2010 - Poor start is accompanied by the chairman saying the manager has his full confidence
Oct 2010 - "Regretably" the chairman is forced to sack the manager due to our league position not reflecting the quality of the squad he has delivered the manager. The chairman promises to fill the position quickly with a world class candidate.

 

[sim0n]

I hate to ruin the surprise for everyone but I've watched this movie before and I know the ending.

May 2010 - we fail to qualify for CL
June - Aug 2010 - we sell and buy a large number of players, net spend is small but gross purchases high, we overpay for players with promise while buying no finished articles
Aug 2010 - Our chairman tells the fans that given the spending on purchases he expects the manager to deliver CL football
Sep 2010 - Poor start is accompanied by the chairman saying the manager has his full confidence
Oct 2010 - "Regretably" the chairman is forced to sack the manager due to our league position not reflecting the quality of the squad he has delivered the manager. The chairman promises to fill the position quickly with a world class candidate.

Gudjonsson as Player/Manager? :shrug:

 

[dontcallme]

I hate to ruin the surprise for everyone but I've watched this movie before and I know the ending.

May 2010 - we fail to qualify for CL
June - Aug 2010 - we sell and buy a large number of players, net spend is small but gross purchases high, we overpay for players with promise while buying no finished articles
Aug 2010 - Our chairman tells the fans that given the spending on purchases he expects the manager to deliver CL football
Sep 2010 - Poor start is accompanied by the chairman saying the manager has his full confidence
Oct 2010 - "Regretably" the chairman is forced to sack the manager due to our league position not reflecting the quality of the squad he has delivered the manager. The chairman promises to fill the position quickly with a world class candidate.

Pretty much. I still hoping that Harry ges by his tried and tested formula and buys a few finished articles (like Gudjohnsen, Crouch, Keane etc) and we have a squad full of experinced players with the right mentality and some very good youngsters. Harry sees the need for steel and a mentality change but this won't change overnight.

 

[mkkid]

Alternatively, Jol and Redknapp might not be tactical geniuses.

Ferguson achieved incredible things at Aberdeen, without spending vast sums. Wenger has done likewise at Arsenal. Mourinho the same at Porto.

Oddly enough Fergie was lucky incredible lucky at Aberdeen they had a great youth side with Leighton,Simspon,cooper,Roberston,leighton.
They had two great centre backs in big eck and Miller and he also picked up Strachan for a small amount.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Oddly enough Fergie was lucky incredible lucky at Aberdeen they had a great youth side with Leighton,Simspon,cooper,Roberston,leighton.
They had two great centre backs in big eck and Miller and he also picked up Strachan for a small amount.

The same way Redknapp was "lucky" at West Ham that they had a fantastic youth set up, courtesy of Tony Carr, which brought through all them players in the late 90's/early noughties...?:shrug:

 

[recklessyido]

Get him out he's not a manager or type of person we need at Spurs. I have said this since the day he was appointed manager of Tottenham.I know most of you most prob Love the guy but I have never liked him due to is past, screwing teams up and now making Tottenham - Portsmouth 2010.

I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I'm sorry I believe it's the truth. Levy done well getting him in to turn us around but he (Harry) is not the future of Tottenham. We do play some good attractive under Harry granted (but that doesn't win you games) He's the first to speak out about players, how does this help them? He's a very dodgy man and if/when he is found guilty I really hope he does time cause we all would.

After me saying all this do we need another manager? we never stick by a manger for more than 4 years if we are lucky. I really don't know where we go from here..

 

[BorisTM]

After me saying all this do we need another manager? we never stick by a manger for more than 4 years if we are lucky. I really don't know where we go from here..

Clive Allen. He knows the players and the club, he is a Spurs legend. I remember when Harry took over, he said that for the first few games he let Allen put the team together until he got to know the players, and it was with those first few games that our recovery started.

 

[jimmyn16]

So let's get this straight? Redknapp has been in charge for just over 50 Premiership games, not even a season and a half. His record so far in terms of points per game is the best of all Spurs managers in the Premiership era, as is his win percentage. And some people on this site want to get rid of him after one disappointing night?

I know what Kammy would say...

http://www.topspurs.com/thfc-managers-index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.#Top_20_managers_of_the_club.27s_history

 

[StartingPrice]

So let's get this straight? Redknapp has been in charge for just over 50 Premiership games, not even a season and a half. His record so far in terms of points per game is the best of all Spurs managers in the Premiership era, as is his win percentage. And some people on this site want to get rid of him after one disappointing night?

I know what Kammy would say...

http://www.topspurs.com/thfc-managers-index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C.#Top_20_managers_of_the_club.27s_history

:up:
Very definition of knee-jerk, ain't it bro...have a rep on post 3, for your contribution.

One minor criticism though, because I know you'll get it in the neck if anyone bothers to respond to your post: it isn't one disappointing result, there have been a few recently - but covered up by the fact that we haven't lost for a while:wink:

 

[jimmyn16]

:up:
Very definition of knee-jerk, ain't it bro...have a rep on post 3, for your contribution.

One minor criticism though, because I know you'll get it in the neck if anyone bothers to respond to your post: it isn't one disappointing result, there have been a few recently - but covered up by the fact that we haven't lost for a while:wink:

Thanks StartingPrice. That's a fair point. I should have clarified that I was referring to the performance as well as the result. I agree there has been a run of disappointing results recently but I don't feel the team have been playing that badly.

 

[Hoowl]

Joey never. SS57 prefered Mido. He also thought Can't Control would be a waste of money (when we were being linked for a reported 2ish million) and generally implied Mido was better.

Joey believed that Bentley would replace Lennon because he was a much better quality footballer, but that one remains to be seen.

For what it's worth, BC never really rated Ekotto. But then he had a pretty shaky first year in the EPL.

Hindsight is wonderful.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Joey never. SS57 prefered Mido. He also thought Can't Control would be a waste of money (when we were being linked for a reported 2ish million) and generally implied Mido was better.

Joey believed that Bentley would replace Lennon because he was a much better quality footballer, but that one remains to be seen.

For what it's worth, BC never really rated Ekotto. But then he had a pretty shaky first year in the EPL.

Ah ok. I wasn't around for such discussions, hence my surprise.

I was very upset when we got rid of Kanoute. He was a superb player and we didn't know how good we had it.

With Lennon, I just never understood why people were writing him off after one bad season at the age of 20, having had two very good seasons at the ages of 18 and 19. Yes, he stalled a bit, but it's often the case with young players. He came back last season and was our best player, and has continued in that vein this season. I never liked Bentley and never wanted him, though I've always willed him to do well, and I honest to god couldn't understand why people were so in favour of replacing Lennon with him.

Regarding Ekotto, he showed promise at a young age for us but in a new league, at a young age, was inconsistent, and he wasn't helped by a very big injury. Another one that people wrote off prematurely.

It's one thing to get impatient with Jenas, Keane, Defoe, Dawson etc, they are all in the peak of their careers and should be fulfilling any potential that they have (not saying that any of them are or aren't, just commenting on their ages), but to write off a player who has shown good qualities and has many years of progression left in them (Bale being another one) is just plain daft.

 

[StartingPrice]

Thanks StartingPrice. That's a fair point. I should have clarified that I was referring to the performance as well as the result. I agree there has been a run of disappointing results recently but I don't feel the team have been playing that badly.

I wouldn't worry too much...clarity of post isn't a strong point on here. 'Tis more of a place for 'spittle-flecks flying from the mouth' rants:grin:

 

[feet01]

But Harry's had the bes spurs squad in the premiership era, and is not taking advantage of it

 

[StartingPrice]

But Harry's had the bes spurs squad in the premiership era, and is not taking advantage of it

At the moment there is:
A Big 4 - albeit the Scousers are a seriously weakened force;
A 'Semi-Big 4' (Us, Villa, Citeh and Everton). Citeh, by rights, have the most chance of breaking the Top 4 monopoly dueto their filthy lucre. Make no mistake, Everton's start gave a hugely false impression. And Villa are a very neat, compact team (with the emphasis on TEAM), with a very shrewd manager (don't forget they beat United at OT);
A next group of players who are capable of holding their own against the above 8, but not in a consistent fashion. Birmingham, Fulham at home, 1st half of season - Sunderland, to give some examples;
And relegation candidates, all of who are fighting for their lives and capable of throwing up rogue results.

Put together, this makes for a league where inconsistency will be a key feature, and even the Big 2 (United and Chelsea) have been on the end of some rogue results and suffered more defeats than would have been thinkable in previous seasons.

So why is it doom-and-gloom and time for 'Arry to go (not saying you have said that, but some have), because we, too, have had some rogue results and upsets. Our form hasn't been the greatest, but that can flip-flop in one game. So, yeah, this is the best squad we have had in years (since mid-80s IMHO), and 'Arry may not seem to be taking advantage of it (think he likes a settled team). But we are still well in the mix, and some of our rivals have harder run-ins than us. It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings, eh = COYS

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Really strange choice of selection for the starting XI at Wolves If you still have some ambition to finish 4th

Not least because he didnt make a single change at home to Villa but played loads of the faces on that bench away at Wolves!