AVB's 4-3-3 w/ Spurs: Tactical & Player Analysis & Discussion

[Bus-Conductor]

This thread is for all those wondering how Spurs might play this season and as to how players like Bale, Sig, Soldado, Paulinho, Holtby will fit in to the squad this season. Also up for discussion is how possible additions of Eriksen, Capoue, Alderweireld, Lamela might fit in as well. Everything is up for discussion including what players might need to be sold because they don't fit the system or how certain players will fit the systems, how AVB will utilise certain players, what players you rate and don't rate and why and how certain can we be that this new squad can wipe the floor with other teams in the Premier League Enjoy!

Warning: I cannot guarantee this is how Spurs will play! However, based on the players signed by Spurs this summer transfer window, how AVB's FC Porto side played and how we have the teams have lined up in pre-season, many people, as well as I, predict this is how AVB will deploy his Spurs side for the 2013/2014 season

First things first, I haven't put Paulinho in here as idk his squad number and as Dembele has been playing this role in pre-season in Paul's absence. Either way the roles of the players themselves shouldn't change much so you can just imagine who'll play where

The philosophy of AVB's 4-3-3 is to pin the opponents in their half, to feed the front 3, time and time again, as quickly and as effectively as possible, to come at the opponents with wave after wave of a forceful and uncontrollable level of fury and technical ability. AVB describes this as a "vertical" style of football. It's meant to be an incredible show of tactical knowledge, high tempo, all-attacking, fluid and attractive football meant to break the spine of any team in it's wake. When AVB utilised this tactic at FC Porto he gained remarkable success (success which eventually led Chelsea to pay a world-record fee for a manager for AVB in the summer of 2011) FC Porto won the Portuguese liga, the Europa League trophy and the Taca de Portugal (A domestic Portuguese cup), AVB's Porto won the league with 84 points, winning 27 games and drawing another 3 out of 30 games, finishing the season unbeaten. Porto scored 73 goals in the league and conceded only 16, scoring the most goals and conceding the least. Now, AVB looks set to bring in this tactic in an attempt to replicate a similar amount of success with our beloved Spurs

This is widely regarded as how AVB likes to line up his favored 4-3-3. The image above shows generally the range of movement each role is assigned. The GK and CBs are all meant to be technically astute as when dominating play, the CBs are meant to be tactically smart as well as produce creativity form the back, their role is to sit in the halfway line, pinning the opposition striker to cower in his own half. They are there to press high up the pitch and to keep the opposition as far away from our goal as humanly possible, they are also set up to support the midfield when in possession.

The FBs (Walker & Rose) provide the width in this formation. The FBs are meant to run the wings, to offer an outlet when play gets to crowded in the middle as well as form triangles between the midfield and the wingers. However, in the 4-3-3 the FBs are meant to offer as much an attacking threat as well as they defend. The FBs job is to support the wingers in the attack, providing crosses as well as making penetrating runs into the channels and sometimes the 18-yard box!

The midfield trio is pivotal to any success the 4-3-3 may enjoy. The general trio generally involves an anchor man, someone who marshals the space No10s enjoy so much, shielding the back four, winning back possession as well assist carrying the ball out from defense in launching an attack. We can assume this role will be filled by Sandro "the Beast", if the squad owns an exceptionally defensively astute anchor this allows the two more advanced CMs to have much more of an influence in the attack.

The next CM role will most likely be occupied by Paulinho next season (but for the sake of the diagram I used Dembele) and is usually summed up as a box-to-box all action midfielder. The role of the box-to-box CM is meant to include supporting the defense when under pressure as well as to support the attack when dominating play. The typical box-to-box CM is meant to be a strong and very physical presence in the center of the pitch. The idea being when in possession the CM looks to charge forward always looking to bully the opposition whilst always looking to offload the ball to a forward or looking to get a shot off on goal. Paulinho is a perfect fit for this role thanks to his physical presence as well as his excellent technical ability when on the ball and the threat he poses when in the box.

The most advanced of the CMs is meant to be the playmaker, the creative spark of the side. The one who roams around the pitch, lurking in the space between the oppositions midfield and defense always looking to play the killer ball, to link the midfield to attack and arrive late in the box when on the attack. This role in the squad will either be filled by Dembele, Sigurdsson, Holtby or (on occasions) Chadli.

The front 3 now! Since the width of the 4-3-3 is supplied by the FBs, the wingers act more like inside forwards. The idea being that these players are always looking to receive the ball either behind the opposing full back or in the pocket of space the No10 enjoys to roam, from these positions they are looking to cut in on their favored foots and create penetrating runs into the box, always looking to shoot or produce a cross from the by-line. The wingers are positioned and set up to support and accompany the striker as well as become a target for the rest of the team to launch an attack. Players like Chadli and Bale are again perfect fits for these roles, big, powerful players who look to beat their man with pace and strength to beat the offside trap and get into the box to shoot at goal or provide the assist.

The striker plays in between the two opposition CBs. He is the target of the team, the focal point of the attack, aiming to beat the offside trap as well as finish off all attacking moves. The striker requires a good all round game, he needs to be good technically, competitive aerially, a superb finisher and needs to make good movement. Soldado has recently been bought in to fulfill this role. Soldado is a fantastic striker, he has a good all round game, and while he may lack the aerial presence ideal for a striker, he more then makes up for it with his exceptional volleying ability, superb movement in the box and killer instinct. Soldado has shown himself to be a consistent and capable striker who has grabbed 81 goals in the past 3 seasons for Valencia (his last season being his most productive with 30 goals in all competitions.

The 4-3-3 dominates other teams with its constant presence of triangles between players, since most teams in the Prem utilise the 4-2-3-1 formation this is how our players will use the triangles to dictate play and control the game.

As you can see, the team is set up to control the game, to restrict the influence opposition players have on the game and ultimately win.
Considering this is most likely how Spurs will play next season, what more players do you see coming in to fit this tactic, as well as what do you think current squad members can bring to the pitch. Do you think there will players outgoing because they don't fit this tactic or sold to raise funds for more targets?

I like your post, makes lots of got points re formation, but it is not just the formation in itself, it is the application of it that makes it succeed or fail. It is getting players to play a high tempo, high pitch pressing game. Making the pitch as small as possible when the opposition have the ball etc.

Just picking a 433 formation alone isn't necessarily "setting up to control the game", the players must apply the right tactics as a coherent unit too.

Putting players like Dawson in your back line isn't facilitating a high line or high tempo, high press, possession based game.

I like your observation about the full backs and wide forwards though, this is spot on. It is why I think Coentrao would be perfect, why I would have loved Srna.

If we sign Capoue and he adjusts to this league, he would be perfectin that central cm role, really good at getting a foot in and then launching an attack and striding forward. Not as good in the tackle (who is) as Sandro but he is better on the ball.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

I like your post, makes lots of got points re formation, but it is not just the formation in itself, it is the application of it that makes it succeed or fail. It is getting players to play a high tempo, high pitch pressing game. Making the pitch as small as possible when the opposition have the ball etc.

Just picking a 433 formation alone isn't necessarily "setting up to control the game", the players must apply the right tactics as a coherent unit too.

Putting players like Dawson in your back line isn't facilitating a high line or high tempo, high press, possession based game.

I like your observation about the full backs and wide forwards though, this is spot on. It is why I think Coentrao would be perfect, why I would have loved Srna.

If we sign Capoue and he adjusts to this league, he would be perfectin that central cm role, really good at getting a foot in and then launching an attack and striding forward. Not as good in the tackle (who is) as Sandro but he is better on the ball.

Meant to ask you other day B-C how do you rate Capoue's chances of doing well for us at CB?

Picking up on the points in the this thread on 4-3-3 and it's dynamics, a CB partnership of Verts and Capoue would give us two players who are very comfortable on the ball.

 

[Tottenham_God]

I'm hoping Carrol can potentially become our creative ball playing CM.

 

[Misfit]

Nicely laid out and will hopefully bring some comfort to those who are still unsure regarding actual coaching and stuff. Been quite a while since we had an honest to goodness one at this club. Whilst not pretty, it already made us greater than the sum of our parts last season, imo. Horribly unbalanced squad and one which was ravaged by injuries to crucial players at some position all of last season.

When AVB gets the squad he's comfortable with and they start clicking, we'll do some serious damage.

 

[LukeBB]

Nice post.

Amazing to think how far we've come under AVB in just one season, tactically anyway. Redknapp couldn't even fucking read.

Yeah, what AVB is doing now is what DL wanted Juande Ramos to do when he took over, to turn Spurs into a clever, tactically astute side who could dismantle opponents with aggressive, pre-planned play. Unfortunately having never broke into the Champions League before Ramos's arrival we didn't have the players to match his plans for the side, he was forced to work with a midfield of Huddlestone, Jenas etc These players weren't used to the high level of focus on tactics and results showed, they couldn't grasp what Ramos was demanding of them, so Levy had to bring in Redknapp, whose more laid-back, motivational coaching methods suited the type of players we had.

Once we got CL we could attract the technically gifted and technically capable player of VDV, who could help get the best out of players at the club like Modric, Bale and Lennon. Once we started playing attractive football, more players became willing to join Spurs even though we still didn't quite make CL. Once we got the right players, Redknapp's coaching methods showed cracks, he would play simple formations like 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 where we could get dominated by a 3 man midfield, Redknapp became outdone by tactically smart coaches like Mancini, Moyes, Ferguson etc It never helped he played the same team over and over again (fatiguing the players) as well as the fact he rarely signed youth players always calling on older, more experienced players with no sell on value (levy no likey) like Parker, Saha, Nelson etc

Now that we had the pulling power and belief of a title-challenging squad, Levy saw this as an opportunity to try again in turning Spurs into a tactically powerful side with a coach who would get the best out of players, who looked to build teams for the future, who looked to win every competition they were in, whose tactical prowess would give Spurs a fighting chance against teams like Man U, Man City, Chelsea and other European sides, that man Levy envisioned was AVB!

Now that AVB is being backed financially to build a squad of his players we are finally starting to see the same vision Levy had, to turn the club's squad into a European force, to turn the club's structure into that similar to the dominant forces of football like Barca, a man who's experiences in Portugal and England made him a stronger character who idolised youth academy's of those of Sporting Lisbon and Barca, who was determined to prove himself that given time he could show the world what he and his squads were capable of, and right now we are seeing this project grow wings!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Meant to ask you other day B-C how do you rate Capoue's chances of doing well for us at CB?

Picking up on the points in the this thread on 4-3-3 and it's dynamics, a CB partnership of Verts and Capoue would give us two players who are very comfortable on the ball.

I've seen him play many times but never at CB. I think he has it within his scope and might even be a revelation as a CB , but without ever seeing him there I couldn't say for sure. I think if he can adjust to the different pace of the EPL, he would make a really good central CM in a 433 or one of a pair in a 4231.

 

[LukeBB]

I'm hoping Carrol can potentially become our creative ball playing CM.

IMO first he needs to bulk up a bit and go and kill it out on loan somewhere at some premier league or la liga club, otherwise he'll never develop competing with midfielders in their prime like Dembele, Holtby, Paulinho etc and end up making 10 odd appearances from the bench!

 

[LukeBB]

I like your post, makes lots of got points re formation, but it is not just the formation in itself, it is the application of it that makes it succeed or fail. It is getting players to play a high tempo, high pitch pressing game. Making the pitch as small as possible when the opposition have the ball etc.

Just picking a 433 formation alone isn't necessarily "setting up to control the game", the players must apply the right tactics as a coherent unit too.

Putting players like Dawson in your back line isn't facilitating a high line or high tempo, high press, possession based game.

I like your observation about the full backs and wide forwards though, this is spot on. It is why I think Coentrao would be perfect, why I would have loved Srna.

If we sign Capoue and he adjusts to this league, he would be perfectin that central cm role, really good at getting a foot in and then launching an attack and striding forward. Not as good in the tackle (who is) as Sandro but he is better on the ball.

I agree completely I should've made sure I mentioned mentality is an important part of this tactic, (as you can imagine it took me a while to write and so some parts may not have been addressed as I was anxious to get it online) but thank you for pointing this out as it helps everyone understand further what AVB is going on this season!

I named Dawson in the line-up just because I don't see Kaboul being ready for the first team, at least not for a few months , so I just wanted to give people a name they can expect to see, but definatley Kaboul would be better suited to this tactic then Dawson because of his pace and power!

 

[Darth Vega]

Yeah, what AVB is doing now is what DL wanted Juande Ramos to do when he took over, to turn Spurs into a clever, tactically astute side who could dismantle opponents with aggressive, pre-planned play. Unfortunately having never broke into the Champions League before Ramos's arrival we didn't have the players to match his plans for the side, he was forced to work with a midfield of Huddlestone, Jenas etc These players weren't used to the high level of focus on tactics and results showed, they couldn't grasp what Ramos was demanding of them, so Levy had to bring in Redknapp, whose more laid-back, motivational coaching methods suited the type of players we had.

Once we got CL we could attract the technically gifted and technically capable player of VDV, who could help get the best out of players at the club like Modric, Bale and Lennon. Once we started playing attractive football, more players became willing to join Spurs even though we still didn't quite make CL. Once we got the right players, Redknapp's coaching methods showed cracks, he would play simple formations like 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 where we could get dominated by a 3 man midfield, Redknapp became outdone by tactically smart coaches like Mancini, Moyes, Ferguson etc It never helped he played the same team over and over again (fatiguing the players) as well as the fact he rarely signed youth players always calling on older, more experienced players with no sell on value (levy no likey) like Parker, Saha, Nelson etc

Now that we had the pulling power and belief of a title-challenging squad, Levy saw this as an opportunity to try again in turning Spurs into a tactically powerful side with a coach who would get the best out of players, who looked to build teams for the future, who looked to win every competition they were in, whose tactical prowess would give Spurs a fighting chance against teams like Man U, Man City, Chelsea and other European sides, that man Levy envisioned was AVB!

Now that AVB is being backed financially to build a squad of his players we are finally starting to see the same vision Levy had, to turn the club's squad into a European force, to turn the club's structure into that similar to the dominant forces of football like Barca, a man who's experiences in Portugal and England made him a stronger character who idolised youth academy's of those of Sporting Lisbon and Barca, who was determined to prove himself that given time he could show the world what he and his squads were capable of, and right now we are seeing this project grow wings!

Agreed. Redknapp was great to an extent but seeing us go to the Emirates playing with 2 forwards and 2 central midfielders against a team that will dominate possession even if you have 3 in midfield made we want to cry. I'm no expert tactician by any means but Redknapp missed the obvious on so many occasions. Last year I felt that we actually played less attractive football under AVB but what stood out was how we dominated possession and our ball retention. It was clear that there was a game plan each week, rather than picking the strongest possible 11 and telling them to go out and have fun. Now that AVB can build his own squad I really think the sky's the limit. I don't wanna jump the gun too much but we really have a great manager on our hands and I think it's evident that Levy believes that, too.

 

[LukeBB]

Agreed. Redknapp was great to an extent but seeing us go to the Emirates playing with 2 forwards and 2 central midfielders against a team that will dominate possession even if you have 3 in midfield made we want to cry. I'm no expert tactician by any means but Redknapp missed the obvious on so many occasions. Last year I felt that we actually played less attractive football under AVB but what stood out was how we dominated possession and our ball retention. It was clear that there was a game plan each week, rather than picking the strongest possible 11 and telling them to go out and have fun. Now that AVB can build his own squad I really think the sky's the limit. I don't wanna jump the gun too much but we really have a great manager on our hands and I think it's evident that Levy believes that, too.

I agree we did lose a lot of our attractive football, but a lot of that was down to AVB not having his squad! He tried to get Mountinho and instead we got Dempsey (not bashing Dempsey I loved him to bits) also a big part was Bale's transition into a central attacker, this meant we played the likes of Dempsey and Sig on the left who like to cut inside, this made our formation look lop-sided and unbalanced and we lost a lot of the triangles out on the left side of the pitch whilst also clusterf***ing the centre of the pitch!

A lot of us didn't anticipate how much Bale would end up playing in the centre so no natural wide-playing, counterpart to Lennon on the right was signed. It also showed that we needed to work on getting signings in early, that's why Baldini is in, to suggest targets and do all the leg work, accelerating deals so we're not left with Levy on the phone negotiating the fee and payment structure till late August

 

[panoma]

Great post mate!

There seems to be a general feeling here that we need an upgrade on rose, but to me thats far from a priority. His engine and pace alone is well suited to our setup, and he is also always willing to aid our attacks.

We must remember he is still a young man and the tactical parts off his game is a lot easier to improve through training. He was voted sunderlands player off the season last year and for me he has been amongst our better players this pre season.

If we were linked to a young brazilian lb called rosinho, who were voted his teams best performer the previous season and we knew he ran all game, had great pace but still a little raw im sure many here would love us to sign him.

Tldr: contreau is obviously a better lb than rose, but im sure rose will do a good job for us this season and im a lot more worried how our cb pairing gonna look for the first games.

 

[ItsBoris]

The midfield trio is pivotal to any success the 4-3-3 may enjoy. The general trio generally involves an anchor man, someone who marshals the space No10s enjoy so much, shielding the back four, winning back possession as well assist carrying the ball out from defense in launching an attack. We can assume this role will be filled by Sandro "the Beast", if the squad owns an exceptionally defensively astute anchor this allows the two more advanced CMs to have much more of an influence in the attack.

The next CM role will most likely be occupied by Paulinho next season (but for the sake of the diagram I used Dembele) and is usually summed up as a box-to-box all action midfielder. The role of the box-to-box CM is meant to include supporting the defense when under pressure as well as to support the attack when dominating play. The typical box-to-box CM is meant to be a strong and very physical presence in the center of the pitch. The idea being when in possession the CM looks to charge forward always looking to bully the opposition whilst always looking to offload the ball to a forward or looking to get a shot off on goal. Paulinho is a perfect fit for this role thanks to his physical presence as well as his excellent technical ability when on the ball and the threat he poses when in the box.

The most advanced of the CMs is meant to be the playmaker, the creative spark of the side. The one who roams around the pitch, lurking in the space between the oppositions midfield and defense always looking to play the killer ball, to link the midfield to attack and arrive late in the box when on the attack. This role in the squad will either be filled by Dembele, Sigurdsson, Holtby or (on occasions) Chadli.

This is the only part of your analysis that I disagreed with. From what I saw of AVB's Porto team (and also the 4-3-3 he set up at Chelsea) the box to box player was the most advanced midfielder in attack. At Porto it was Guarin and at Chelsea Ramires. The idea is that if this midfielder is breaking into the box between the fullback and CB, that the wide forward (Bale/Hulk in this case) can cut inside while the other team's defense can't come narrow. This is how I would compare the Porto team to our current squad, with best fits:

 

[Lilbaz]

1 thing I never get is when commentators and pundits etc... talk about triangles. If you have 3 players unless they are in a straight line they will always be in a triangle.

 

[Bobbins]

Superb post, and hopefully we will line up exactly like this. Very useful reference for some people in the match threads who often don't seem to have much of a clue.

 

[Bobbins]

1 thing I never get is when commentators and pundits etc... talk about triangles. If you have 3 players unless they are in a straight line they will always be in a triangle.

Well the triangle is probably the most fundamental element of possession football, so it gets mentioned a lot (and it's surprising how many coaches don't seem to even be aware of its effectiveness, people like Pulis). It works by giving a player at least two options and by giving the defender two potential directions to have to cover. Played wrong things can become congested but played well and the opposition barely see the ball (see Barca).

 

[Shadydan]

What an absolutely outstanding first post.

Remember when our previous manager tried tactics at the Emitates and played Keane on the left and no one to support Crouch.

Yeah that didn't work out to well did it.

Looking forward to AVB's tactical revolution this season.

 

[HappySpur]

Watch your back Zonal Marking.

Excellent job Luke. When A&C urged you to do this, little did he know he was unleashing a beast.

 

[sharky127]

Why have people given up on Benny? I still think he is a top 6 leftback. I think theirs other positions which is a priority, mainly centre half

I think with the addition of a centre back our squad is strong enough to challenge for the title with the Capoue signing,

1st XI 2nd XI
Lloris Friedal
Walker Naughton
Ekkoto Rose
Kaboul Dawson
Vertonghen Chiriches?
Sandro Capoue
Dembele Paulinhio
Holtby Sigurdson
Chadli Lennon
Bale Townsend
Soldado Adeybeyor

Ship out Gomes, Livermoore, Parker, Huddlestone, Falque & Defoe.

I really don't think we'd spend £17M on a back up centre midfielder! More likely to be the other way round. That way we can protect Dembele and keep him fit for when we need him on a rotational basis. Other than that i pretty much agree

Oh and terrific read Luke BB

 

[Wardy]

It is getting players to play a high tempo, high pitch pressing game. Making the pitch as small as possible when the opposition have the ball etc.

Definitely agree, I love this style of pressing play we are now implementing and it forces the opposition into mistakes.

We've now got the players to do this as well, lots of pace and high stamina

 

[LukeBB]

This is the only part of your analysis that I disagreed with. From what I saw of AVB's Porto team (and also the 4-3-3 he set up at Chelsea) the box to box player was the most advanced midfielder in attack. At Porto it was Guarin and at Chelsea Ramires. The idea is that if this midfielder is breaking into the box between the fullback and CB, that the wide forward (Bale/Hulk in this case) can cut inside while the other team's defense can't come narrow. This is how I would compare the Porto team to our current squad, with best fits:

Yes, at Porto and at Chelsea, the box-to-box midfielder was the more advanced, as you say when the inside forward on the RW cut inside AVB would use the Box-to-Box midfielder to move into the channels and go wide almost forming a 4-2-4 when pressuring the opposition, however watching our pre-season AVB was playing the likes of Sigurdsson and Tommy Carroll as the more advanced CM so that's why I've been talking about the most advanced CM being a playmaker, of course that may change when we finally see the trio of Paulinho, Dembele and Sandro play, he might end up playing Paulinho as the more advanced CM and Dembele a little further behind, as I said I can't guarantee this is how'll we'll play, I was just suggesting this'll how we'll line up based on what I've seen in pre-season.

But thank you for posting anyway!