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David Moyes v Harry Redknapp: a tactical breakdown

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
Both are highly talented, but both still need to diversify in order to establish themselves in the top tier of coaches

(By Michael Cox-the man behind the Zonal Marking website)

There are various opposing tactics in football – attacking versus defensive, ball retention versus counter-attack, fluid versus structured, wide versus narrow. Great tactical battles come between two sides evenly balanced in terms of ability, but completely opposing in strategic terms.

In recent years, Everton against Tottenham fits that brief. First, they are evenly-balanced – since Harry Redknapp joined Tottenham in late 2008, the eight league meetings between he and David Moyes have an aggregate score of 8-8, an average of 1-1 per match. They are always enjoyable, absorbing matches – clashes of genuine quality between two big clubs, without either the viciousness of a derby or the hype of a top-of-the-table clash.

Second, there is a clear element of opposing strategies – in particular, with the two coaches' attitude to individual matches, and on a wider level, their degree of interest in tactics. Redknapp does little coaching himself, and has a laissez-faire approach to players' roles. Ahead of Tottenham's away trip to Norwich in December, he told Rafael van der Vaart and Gareth Bale they could play where they wanted – he believes in maximising a player's ability to make their own decisions, letting attackers play with total freedom, and in playing a proactive game true to his own side's strengths.

Moyes resides at the opposite end of the spectrum. A much more studious coach, he personally works on his side's shape every day in training, varying it according to the challenge of the upcoming weekend. The main criticism of him, amid widespread praise for his decade in charge of the club, has been for being too defensive. But 'defensive' is a broad term that encompasses various aspects of play – the more specific allegation is that he is too reactive, too keen to change things according to the opposition's strengths, rather than imposing his own style of football upon the game. That submissive nature has been more obvious this season – Everton's average possession was 51% in 2009-10, 50% in 2010-11, but down at 46% this campaign.

Such a reactive approach means Everton are well-suited to facing bigger opponents, but picking up wins against weaker opposition is more of a problem, as they look uncomfortable when forced to make the running. From their last seven games, Everton have beaten Manchester City, Chelsea and Tottenham, yet drawn with Aston Villa, Blackburn, QPR and Wigan, all 1-1.

Redknapp, whose side have a poor record against the big clubs this season, tends to select upon fitness, form and confidence, rather than with the opposition in mind. Therefore, Tottenham often look tactically weak in the first half, before Redknapp changes things to prompt a second-half improvement.

Redknapp says things like, "you can argue about formations, tactics and systems forever, but to me football is fundamentally about players," as he told the Sun in 2010. "The numbers game is not the beautiful game, in my opinion." Whereas Moyes responds to criticism of his approach by saying: "If I had my way, I would love to sit down with people and ask to hear them explain the strengths of 4-4-2 compared to the 4-4-1-1 which we play. If you ask me, I'd argue all day long."

The difference was epitomised by the battle at the weekend, and in particular the contest between Bale and Seamus Coleman. These are, broadly speaking, two similar players – 22 and 23 respectively, full-backs converted into wingers because of their pace and attacking drive. If there's one area of tactics Redknapp does take an interest in, it's getting his attackers into space, and this has been particularly obvious with Bale.

"One of Gareth's main assets is the way he uses his fantastic pace to run at defenders," he says. "You need space in front of you to do that, though, and on the left wing, that space can become more easily closed down."

That desire for space has seen him fielded in the centre and the right in recent weeks. "People have been double-marking or even triple-marking me [out on the left]," Bale says. "I've had to mix my game up, and I'm improving all the time."

He started on the right here, partly to get away from that double-mark. Coleman did a great job against Bale at White Hart Lane last season, doubling up with Phil Neville, a few days after Bale's hat-trick against Inter that led to an explosion of hype.

Yet there was no escape. Demonstrating how reactive Moyes is, he had intended to use Coleman in that same role in conjunction with Neville, but upon seeing Bale line up on Tottenham's right on Saturday, Moyes told Coleman to trot over to an unfamiliar left-sided position to maintain the tracking. Redknapp was calling the shots and trying to lead his players into space, Moyes was responding to each move by telling his players to shut down the space. That's natural for a forward against a defender, but these were players in the same position.

Coleman replicated his job from last season with relative ease. Bale is less comfortable on the right, as a couple of poor crosses early on showed – one straight at a defender with his unfavoured right foot, the other a swipe with the outside of his left. In fact, it's probably easier for a wide midfielder to double up against an 'inverted' winger looking to come inside – the player can take up a reasonably central position and show him down the line. Neither Coleman nor Bale were comfortable crossing with their weaker foot, and with Royston Drenthe and Luka Modric also coming inside from the opposite flank, the game was tight and congested, which played into the hands of Moyes.

After a frustrated chorus of "Gareth Bale, he plays on the left" from the travelling Spurs fans, he eventually moved to his favoured flank. Coleman's marking had forced Bale from the left to the right last season. Now it forced him from the right to the left. Sure enough, Coleman followed him across the pitch again.

With Redknapp a near-certainty for the vacant England position, Moyes is the favourite for the Tottenham job. This game showcased how different the two are, and what a huge departure it would be from Tottenham's current style if they were to approach the Scot.

Of course, it's often a deliberate move to bring in a coach with a wildly different style to his predecessor, but this is after some level of failure, when there is a natural intention to break with the past. Redknapp would be benefitting from that with the FA, where the process of replacing a plucky Englishman with an intelligent foreigner, and vice-versa, is about to start its third cycle. But Redknapp's tenure has been a success, and Tottenham would have to decide how much they want to continue with his beliefs, and how much they want something different.

Tottenham could do with more structure against big teams, Everton need more invention against small teams, while England need both. Can we fuse the two managers? Both are highly talented, but both need to diversify to establish themselves in the top tier of coaches.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...harry-redknapp-tactical-breakdown?INTCMP=SRCH
 

JJetset

Lurking in the shadows of threads...
Oct 4, 2004
3,117
30,679
MY OPINION-
Moyes would be a disaster as he doesnt do attacking very well and couldnt play "in the Tottenham way" and the same people calling for him would be against him after a month.
He puts teams together on a budget and drills the players hard bit like Roy Hodgson.
Also he cant make his mind up ever on transfer targets and changes his mind more than any other manager in the league!
Lovely bloke though and hard as nails!
 

not_tenth-again

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2009
2,599
2,095
Wasn't Coleman the guy they bought for 60,000 quid? Good bit of business that.

Even if bale does get double teamed does that not mean he's earnt Modric and VDV some added freedom in the middle....? Is that really a bad thing for Spurs?? IMO Bale needs to suck it up and figure the problem out, not run away from it and clog the centre... I really think it's good for Spurs and good for his development. He needs to use his intelligence and harry has to leave him to deal with it. BAE already has to deal with a lack of pace on his inside, he shouldn't have to deal with a faulty structure infront of him too.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
MY OPINION-
Moyes would be a disaster as he doesnt do attacking very well and couldnt play "in the Tottenham way" and the same people calling for him would be against him after a month.
He puts teams together on a budget and drills the players hard bit like Roy Hodgson.
Also he cant make his mind up ever on transfer targets and changes his mind more than any other manager in the league!
Lovely bloke though and hard as nails!

Who are you describing here? Moyes or Redknapp pre-tottenham?

Because to be honest, you could be talking about either.

Before Redknapp came to Spurs, who would you have rather had?

I don't agree that Moyes couldn't play the Tottenham way, whatever the fuck that is. His team would still have VDV, Modric, Bale and Lennon in it. But what he might do is improve our defensive frailties, and improve our set piece organisation, rather than relying on moments of genius.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,248
17,550
say what you want about Moyes - he comes up with a plan and his players carry it out. Everton are well-organized. A little of that discipline would be welcome at Spurs.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,900
9,304
MY OPINION-
Moyes would be a disaster as he doesnt do attacking very well and couldnt play "in the Tottenham way" and the same people calling for him would be against him after a month.
He puts teams together on a budget and drills the players hard bit like Roy Hodgson.
Also he cant make his mind up ever on transfer targets and changes his mind more than any other manager in the league!
Lovely bloke though and hard as nails!

I hope the club share your opinion, I certainly do. What do you think of Brendan Rodgers?
 

JJetset

Lurking in the shadows of threads...
Oct 4, 2004
3,117
30,679
say what you want about Moyes - he comes up with a plan and his players carry it out. Everton are well-organized. A little of that discipline would be welcome at Spurs.

Like George Graham did?
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,900
9,304
say what you want about Moyes - he comes up with a plan and his players carry it out. Everton are well-organized. A little of that discipline would be welcome at Spurs.

Brendan Rodgers = Moyes type discipline but with great passing football philosophy.
 

whitelightwhiteheat

SC Supporter
Jul 21, 2006
6,517
3,195
I said after the game against Everton last season (the one where Neville marked Bale out of the game, effectively) that Seamus Coleman was one hell of a prospect, and that's proven to be the case. He's a very good young player.

As for the Moyes to Spurs debate. I'm unsure. I think he's a very capable manager, could he switch up his game with more expectations, more spend to spend, etc? I would argue that he could, he's consistently got himself bargains that have done the business for him for Everton, who have consistently punched above their weight under Moyes.

I dunno whether Moyes is the right man for the job for us though. I wouldn't be hugely disappointed if we gave him the job though, we've had far worse managers.

Who's Marcelo Bielsa though?! Did we learn nothing from the Juande Ramos debacle?
 

lol

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2008
6,652
6,083
Who's Marcelo Bielsa though?! Did we learn nothing from the Juande Ramos debacle?

honestly i'm tired of fans judging whether players and managers will be successful base on whether they are english/english spoken or not

for players we should judge things like work rate, technicality, speed, his passing skills. if he fits all the bills where we can judge with our eyes, of course we should take a gamble and sign him. then you guys go " oh but hes not proven in the PL so we shouldnt sign". ffs, i understand that there are intangibles in life such as mentality cannot be counted the way physicality and technicality can be counted.

but you thats where the gamble comes in. this gamble works in every transfer, whether its foreign or local base. look at torres. absolutely proven in the EPL, so fucking what? still a huge flop, why? because of mentality. on the other hand, look at aguero/silva, not proven but absolutely flourishing. all the players mentioned above are sublime whether in physicality and technicality, but because of their mentality, it makes a world of difference.

for every aguero, theres a shevchenko and for every demba ba there is a andy caroll. you can only hope the player you want tick all the check box for physicality and technicality, then hope for the best in mentality.

same with manager. marcelo bielsa, if you haven not watch any athletic games this season, has been playing extremely great football. he can only work with basque players and thats even more incredible. he plays the game with great attacking/counter attacking football, with wingers from the side and a superb lone, hold up striker.

he fits our attacking mentality like a glove. more importantly, his mindset in defence is very admirable. plyers are made to press very diligently and you can see how they stop chase and regroup after certain amount of time, stopping opponents from dragging defenders away from each other too much. he fits us tactically in terms of attack and defence.

this man turned down inter last season because he said they were too slow to play his style. if HR ever moves, we should buy munain to cover our AMRL, llorente to replace adebayor, and him as our head coach. as for working or not, we can only hope for the best. you'll never know if david moyes turns into another roy hogson
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,013
48,644
Who are you describing here? Moyes or Redknapp pre-tottenham?

Because to be honest, you could be talking about either.

Before Redknapp came to Spurs, who would you have rather had?

I don't agree that Moyes couldn't play the Tottenham way, whatever the fuck that is. His team would still have VDV, Modric, Bale and Lennon in it. But what he might do is improve our defensive frailties, and improve our set piece organisation, rather than relying on moments of genius.

Redknapps teams always played attacking football before he came to spurs.

If Moyes really believed in free flowing football he would have filled his team with the suitable players to back up his philosophy in the ten years he has been at Everton.

Instead he has a team full of hard working pro's with minor creativity.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
10,872
33,728
I think many current spurs players wouldn't enjoy themselves under moyes. He could certainly be a success here but I'm not sure the crowd would enjoy it.

Some one like AVB would be perfect if he isn't too burned by the experience of managing in england.
 

Spurvert

Huge Member
Jul 10, 2011
2,365
2,801
Moyes isn't good enough for Spurs. End of.

We should be looking higher than that.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I think Moyes is a good manager, but I don't think he right for us. I don't think his team is purely defensive either, and Everton have never been a long ball side under him, they always pass the ball and are robust and hard working off it.

I just think we have an opportunity to move forwards and in Rodgers there is a manager with a clear ethos who could shape the whole club from youth players upwards.

Levy has often made bold and innovative choices and I hope he does in the summer.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,013
48,644
I think Moyes is a good manager, but I don't think he right for us. I don't think his team is purely defensive either, and Everton have never been a long ball side under him, they always pass the ball and are robust and hard working off it.

I just think we have an opportunity to move forwards and in Rodgers there is a manager with a clear ethos who could shape the whole club from youth players upwards.

Levy has often made bold and innovative choices and I hope he does in the summer.

I would definitely support a move for Rodgers but I just doubt Levy would go for him after only one seasons prem experience.
 
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