David Moyes v Harry Redknapp: a tactical breakdown

[TEESSIDE1]

I assume Moyes came up for discussion after he outthought Redknapp in our recent meeting? Anyone can beat Redknapp in the tactics game as Redders clearly doesn't have any other attack, attack, attack.

Yes his tactics were great against us but he got it completely wrong last night when he rested 5 1st team players at Liverpool and they ended up getting stuffed.

With Moyes in charge at Spurs, we would end up with team of over 30s, playing 1 gk, 9 defenders and 1 midfielder up top. He's hardly an attraction for the quality signings we crave ... how many overpaid superstars want to play for a balls breaking manager? Not many.

 

[ethanedwards]

I think Moyes is a good manager, but I don't think he right for us. I don't think his team is purely defensive either, and Everton have never been a long ball side under him, they always pass the ball and are robust and hard working off it.

I just think we have an opportunity to move forwards and in Rodgers there is a manager with a clear ethos who could shape the whole club from youth players upwards.

Levy has often made bold and innovative choices and I hope he does in the summer.

Agree, it was interesting to note, that the day Capello walked and HR was acquitted, Swansea gave Rodgers a longer contract. Hmm.

 

[ethanedwards]

honestly i'm tired of fans judging whether players and managers will be successful base on whether they are english/english spoken or not

for players we should judge things like work rate, technicality, speed, his passing skills. if he fits all the bills where we can judge with our eyes, of course we should take a gamble and sign him. then you guys go " oh but hes not proven in the PL so we shouldnt sign". ffs, i understand that there are intangibles in life such as mentality cannot be counted the way physicality and technicality can be counted.

but you thats where the gamble comes in. this gamble works in every transfer, whether its foreign or local base. look at torres. absolutely proven in the EPL, so fucking what? still a huge flop, why? because of mentality. on the other hand, look at aguero/silva, not proven but absolutely flourishing. all the players mentioned above are sublime whether in physicality and technicality, but because of their mentality, it makes a world of difference.

for every aguero, theres a shevchenko and for every demba ba there is a andy caroll. you can only hope the player you want tick all the check box for physicality and technicality, then hope for the best in mentality.

same with manager. marcelo bielsa, if you haven not watch any athletic games this season, has been playing extremely great football. he can only work with basque players and thats even more incredible. he plays the game with great attacking/counter attacking football, with wingers from the side and a superb lone, hold up striker.

he fits our attacking mentality like a glove. more importantly, his mindset in defence is very admirable. plyers are made to press very diligently and you can see how they stop chase and regroup after certain amount of time, stopping opponents from dragging defenders away from each other too much. he fits us tactically in terms of attack and defence.

this man turned down inter last season because he said they were too slow to play his style. if HR ever moves, we should buy munain to cover our AMRL, llorente to replace adebayor, and him as our head coach. as for working or not, we can only hope for the best. you'll never know if david moyes turns into another roy hogson

Really impressed with Athletic last week against MU, one of the best team performances this season, there fitness levels were outstanding for 90 mins.

 

[ethanedwards]

I said after the game against Everton last season (the one where Neville marked Bale out of the game, effectively) that Seamus Coleman was one hell of a prospect, and that's proven to be the case. He's a very good young player.

As for the Moyes to Spurs debate. I'm unsure. I think he's a very capable manager, could he switch up his game with more expectations, more spend to spend, etc? I would argue that he could, he's consistently got himself bargains that have done the business for him for Everton, who have consistently punched above their weight under Moyes.

I dunno whether Moyes is the right man for the job for us though. I wouldn't be hugely disappointed if we gave him the job though, we've had far worse managers.

Who's Marcelo Bielsa though?! Did we learn nothing from the Juande Ramos debacle?

this is a good read about Bielsa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...-athletic-bilbao-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu
http://http//www.guardian.co.uk/foo...-athletic-bilbao-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

honestly i'm tired of fans judging whether players and managers will be successful base on whether they are english/english spoken or not

for players we should judge things like work rate, technicality, speed, his passing skills. if he fits all the bills where we can judge with our eyes, of course we should take a gamble and sign him. then you guys go " oh but hes not proven in the PL so we shouldnt sign". ffs, i understand that there are intangibles in life such as mentality cannot be counted the way physicality and technicality can be counted.

but you thats where the gamble comes in. this gamble works in every transfer, whether its foreign or local base. look at torres. absolutely proven in the EPL, so fucking what? still a huge flop, why? because of mentality. on the other hand, look at aguero/silva, not proven but absolutely flourishing. all the players mentioned above are sublime whether in physicality and technicality, but because of their mentality, it makes a world of difference.

for every aguero, theres a shevchenko and for every demba ba there is a andy caroll. you can only hope the player you want tick all the check box for physicality and technicality, then hope for the best in mentality.

same with manager. marcelo bielsa, if you haven not watch any athletic games this season, has been playing extremely great football. he can only work with basque players and thats even more incredible. he plays the game with great attacking/counter attacking football, with wingers from the side and a superb lone, hold up striker.

he fits our attacking mentality like a glove. more importantly, his mindset in defence is very admirable. plyers are made to press very diligently and you can see how they stop chase and regroup after certain amount of time, stopping opponents from dragging defenders away from each other too much. he fits us tactically in terms of attack and defence.

this man turned down inter last season because he said they were too slow to play his style. if HR ever moves, we should buy munain to cover our AMRL, llorente to replace adebayor, and him as our head coach. as for working or not, we can only hope for the best. you'll never know if david moyes turns into another roy hogson

The ability to speak English is a key important in how successful they will be, but not the be all and end all I guess. Villas-Boas, for example, speaks perfect English but he's been a "failure" at Chelsea, since he's been sacked.

I've never heard of the fella you mentioned though, which is a testament to my overall ignorance on European football as a whole. No disrespect intended. I can't say I've seen anything of Athletic this season, though I hear they are doing very good things, so maybe he's an option. If he'd bring Llorente with him I'd be happy with that!

I wouldn't mind a little look at the Dortmund manager, I think he'd be a decent option if Harry were to bugger off.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

this is a good read about Bielsa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...-athletic-bilbao-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu
http://http//www.guardian.co.uk/foo...-athletic-bilbao-manchester-united?CMP=twt_gu

Thanks for this, it's a really interesting read.

Could you imagine British footballers coping with the madness of his actions though?!

I mean there were reports that Tom Huddlestone couldn't even cope with Ramos asking him to restrict his diet to lose a bit of weight, for example.

It would be a massive culture shock for them and for Bielsa himself.

 

[Kingstheman]

I think Moyes is a good manager, but I don't think he right for us. I don't think his team is purely defensive either, and Everton have never been a long ball side under him, they always pass the ball and are robust and hard working off it.

I just think we have an opportunity to move forwards and in Rodgers there is a manager with a clear ethos who could shape the whole club from youth players upwards.

Levy has often made bold and innovative choices and I hope he does in the summer.

I think he has a good footballing vision, so I would not be unhappy about this.

 

[ethanedwards]

Thanks for this, it's a really interesting read.

Could you imagine British footballers coping with the madness of his actions though?!

I mean there were reports that Tom Huddlestone couldn't even cope with Ramos asking him to restrict his diet to lose a bit of weight, for example.

It would be a massive culture shock for them and for Bielsa himself.

Agree, imagine having to work after lunch.
If I recall when Davids was here, he was suprised that no one trained in the afternoon except him.

 

[Kingstheman]

Agree, imagine having to work after lunch.
If I recall when Davids was here, he was suprised that no one trained in the afternoon except him.

Fabregas has come out and said that the amount of training at Barcelona dwarfs that at Arsenal. The sheer volume of 'ball work' was huge.

The question is, do these guys WANT to be the best?

 

[jimmy-jojo]

I don't think MOyes is a good fit for us.

Woul dno-on else be concerned that almost every season Everton have started slowly and been banging around the relegation spots until around Xmas and then they pick up form and finish strongly?

That happens with alarming regularity with Everton under Moyes.

 

[Mr Pink]

Rodgers is my first choice without a shadow of a doubt.

Moyes is still an interesting candidate though and he's very experienced.

I'm not so sure its as simple as the article is suggesting. I think with some managers a specific working environment is largely irrelevant and a manager will have a similar approach regardless no matter what Club he's at. On the other hand I believe some managers have the capacity to be more adaptable.

If Moyes was one of these it might be a very interesting proposition. I'm not saying he would, potentially, abandon his current practices and methods - and nor would I want him to, because the organisation and off the ball work he would put in on the training ground is exactly what we need IMO.

But would he be capable of getting the best out of players like VDV, who do play with a freedom or would his demands have a detrimental affect on our attacking football? I'm not sure they would, Moyes would be working with a higher quality group of players, many in the attacking sense, and from that point of view its possible that he might alter some of his principles to find a better balance between attacking with the ball and working off it.

When we are good we are very good, but we could be better. I have no doubt Moyes would make us harder to beat, but could he do it without compromising our attacking prowess?

An interesting option, and one who deserves to be on our short list at the very least.

Nowhere near as bad a choice as some would have you believe.

 

[van_Pommel]

we need marcelo bielsa, not moyes.

It has to someone with Premier League experience for me. We cannot afford to go backwards even a little bit. We are on the verge of something here and we need to be very careful not to screw it up.

 

[hellava_tough]

Brendan Rogers seems like a good shout

He's also worked with some top players and managers (Jose at least) so wouldn't be intimidated by the likes of Modric, Bale, VDV etc.....a lot like our recent opposition lol

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Fuck Moyes. Everton play probably the most shit football in the league (my own personal hell is watching everton and stoke kick the ball at each other for eternity), and the tie waste more than anyone else. Fuck that, even if it gets you results i'd prefer us to lose gloriously then play that crap brand of smash and grab anti-football.

 

[lol]

i would much rather brendan rogers that david moyes imo, because of his sheer attacking play. david moyes will not be able to utilise our players to their maximum potential because his game is built on workrate and defence first.

as for bielsa, it will only work if the players are willing to listen and respect the coach. if our players react like how those chelsea ****s reacts towards the coach, it will never work. at the same time if our players are players who gets pissed off because a manager wants them to work harder, due to the fact that their work rate sucks, we will never win anything.

 

[CJMurray]

MY OPINION-
Moyes would be a disaster as he doesnt do attacking very well and couldnt play "in the Tottenham way" and the same people calling for him would be against him after a month.
He puts teams together on a budget and drills the players hard bit like Roy Hodgson.
Also he cant make his mind up ever on transfer targets and changes his mind more than any other manager in the league!
Lovely bloke though and hard as nails!

Do you have any info on who Levy might be looking at to potentially replace Redknapp JJ? Thanks.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

honestly i'm tired of fans judging whether players and managers will be successful base on whether they are english/english spoken or not

for players we should judge things like work rate, technicality, speed, his passing skills. if he fits all the bills where we can judge with our eyes, of course we should take a gamble and sign him. then you guys go " oh but hes not proven in the PL so we shouldnt sign". ffs, i understand that there are intangibles in life such as mentality cannot be counted the way physicality and technicality can be counted.

but you thats where the gamble comes in. this gamble works in every transfer, whether its foreign or local base. look at torres. absolutely proven in the EPL, so fucking what? still a huge flop, why? because of mentality. on the other hand, look at aguero/silva, not proven but absolutely flourishing. all the players mentioned above are sublime whether in physicality and technicality, but because of their mentality, it makes a world of difference.

for every aguero, theres a shevchenko and for every demba ba there is a andy caroll. you can only hope the player you want tick all the check box for physicality and technicality, then hope for the best in mentality.

same with manager. marcelo bielsa, if you haven not watch any athletic games this season, has been playing extremely great football. he can only work with basque players and thats even more incredible. he plays the game with great attacking/counter attacking football, with wingers from the side and a superb lone, hold up striker.

he fits our attacking mentality like a glove. more importantly, his mindset in defence is very admirable. plyers are made to press very diligently and you can see how they stop chase and regroup after certain amount of time, stopping opponents from dragging defenders away from each other too much. he fits us tactically in terms of attack and defence.

this man turned down inter last season because he said they were too slow to play his style. if HR ever moves, we should buy munain to cover our AMRL, llorente to replace adebayor, and him as our head coach. as for working or not, we can only hope for the best. you'll never know if david moyes turns into another roy hogson

Good stuff, I agree completely. And it goes for managers too, except they are hostages to fortune even more than players.

 

[BuffaloSid]

Right so the mere mention of a non english name means the candidate should be passes over ...hmmm

personally i just dont like th eidea of a manager without prem experience. To big a gamble.
Id happily take Ancelloti , the special one or alex feguson. Not being english isnt a prob. Lack of experience is ...ie Villa boas

 

[Bus-Conductor]

personally i just dont like th eidea of a manager without prem experience. To big a gamble.
Id happily take Ancelloti , the special one or alex feguson. Not being english isnt a prob. Lack of experience is ...ie Villa boas

Nearly all managerial appointments are gambles.

How much experience did Mourinho (or Ancelotti) have of the EPL prior to Chelsea ? Both won titles.

As LOL said above, why keep applying meaningless rules. Weigh up each candidate (be it player or manager) on their own merits and accept that there are very few hard rules as to who will succeed and who will fail, as long as the original logic is sound. As it happens, I would like Rodgers, a manager with EPL experience as a no.1 and as back room staff. But if we were looking for a manager last summer and gone after AVB I'd have understood that logic too.

 

[StartingPrice]

Nearly all managerial appointments are gambles.

How much experience did Mourinho (or Ancelotti) have of the EPL prior to Chelsea ? Both won titles.

As LOL said above, why keep applying meaningless rules. Weigh up each candidate (be it player or manager) on their own merits and accept that there are very few hard rules as to who will succeed and who will fail, as long as the original logic is sound. As it happens, I would like Rodgers, a manager with EPL experience as a no.1 and as back room staff. But if we were looking for a manager last summer and gone after AVB I'd have understood that logic too.

This.

The absolute ideal would be Mourinho - not for the football he would have us playing, but because there is a very good chance that he would bring us success unprecedented for us in the modern era. Can we get him - :shrug: I certainly think the odds would be quite high, but Dan Levy could pull it off.

More realistically, I wold be happy with either Rodgers or Lambert, and happy with if Levy reinstituted the DOF system - Rodgers, in particular, should be comfortable with that from the amount of time he spent studying coaching in Spain.

Other than that, I would not be put out by Moyes. I think his defensive predilictions have been more pronounced because of the forced attrition of the squad he built. His teamwas not so defensive before his team was dismantled. Surely the stat showing less possession this season, for instance, is not unrelated to being forced to sell tothe Goons in the Summer.