Dele Alli - Player watch

[Nebby]

Fantastic people. So what is the explanation (and by that I mean 'excuse') for all the times his control was shit when he was on his game/scoring goals and/or not being challenged (as if there is often a time when control is not being challenged or threatened)? When you stick the dismount of your mental gymnastics I would be thrilled to hear your answers. As some point the mind will tire of making excuses for that which isn't and start to see things as they truly are.

No excuses or mental gymnastics necessary. It's very simple. Sometimes he loses the ball. Sometimes he doesn't. He's really no different to any other player in that regard.

 

[JimmyG2]

No excuses or mental gymnastics necessary. It's very simple. Sometimes he loses the ball. Sometimes he doesn't. He's really no different to any other player in that regard.

Stand by for a BC statistical sunami.
Nebby what have you done?

He's what we used to call an 'untidy' player.

 

[tooey]

No excuses or mental gymnastics necessary. It's very simple. Sometimes he loses the ball. Sometimes he doesn't. He's really no different to any other player in that regard.

Every player loses the ball, correct, very few lose the ball as much as Dele. It sounds daft but he trusts his own ability too much, there's no problem in backing yourself but he needs to learn his limitations. He's very good at disrupting defences with his movement and his final ball is decent, his ability to beat a man 1 v 1 isn't and the quicker he realises that the better.

 

[Shadydan]

When he plays deeper he rarely gives the ball away, which probably means that he's been instructed to play a bit more carelessly when further up the pitch.

 

[Nerine]

Personally I think he also plays for the foul too often.

Every time he's dispossessed, the arms go up in appeal.

I think that could be avoided if he played things a little simpler at times, rather than trying to take on about 3 players and disappearing up his own arsehole to coin a phrase.

 

[Nebby]

Every player loses the ball, correct, very few lose the ball as much as Dele. It sounds daft but he trusts his own ability too much, there's no problem in backing yourself but he needs to learn his limitations. He's very good at disrupting defences with his movement and his final ball is decent, his ability to beat a man 1 v 1 isn't and the quicker he realises that the better.

Is that a statement of fact or just your opinion?

 

[heelspurs]

No excuses or mental gymnastics necessary. It's very simple. Sometimes he loses the ball. Sometimes he doesn't. He's really no different to any other player in that regard.

A very nice distillation of the situation. However, context is everything and you can begin with Ugni blanc or piss and still say the distillation process is "really no different...in that regard". It's important to understand only one leads to Cognac.

Dele's touch is awful and often take 3 and 4 touches to control the balls that he doesn't lose. This often happens during attacking moves and in pivotal situations thereby slowing or canceling these moves. Whole team efforts are brought to a screeching halt because his control is not dependable. Just watch how many times his control pops up instead of just dying - total invitation for the press. I don't know if you have played or not but when the ball is approaching Dele find the space and anticipate where his first touch should go and it never goes there and he then has to do one of his 'long aimless dribbles' or other more risky moves in order to revive the attack. Now do the same mental exercise with more reliable controllers of the ball like Lamela (who is probably the best on the team with utilizing his first touch to relieve pressure/find space) and Winks (pushes Lamela close). You will find that you will be right quite often with the latter 2 and mostly wrong with Dele's touches.

 

[spursfan77]

Just putting it out there but does anyone think he's suffering from not having Wanyama in the team?

Big Vic was so good at winning the ball back and giving it to Dembele or Eriksen last season, who would then find the fullbacks (when Wanyama didn't himself) who would then feed Dele and Kane. It's led him to be a little deeper or come wider to look for the ball rather than being up the around the box as a second striker feeding off of Kane or looking for the ball from the other players with a quick pass.

I'd love to know the regularity of the combination of Wanyama to AN Other to Alli from last season.

 

[Nebby]

A very nice distillation of the situation. However, context is everything and you can begin with Ugni blanc or piss and still say the distillation process is "really no different...in that regard". It's important to understand only one leads to Cognac.

Dele's touch is awful and often take 3 and 4 touches to control the balls that he doesn't lose. This often happens during attacking moves and in pivotal situations thereby slowing or canceling these moves. Whole team efforts are brought to a screeching halt because his control is not dependable. Just watch how many times his control pops up instead of just dying - total invitation for the press. I don't know if you have played or not but when the ball is approaching find the space and anticipate where his first touch should go and it never goes there and he then has to do one of his 'long aimless dribbles' or other more risky moves in order to revive the attack. Now do the same mental exercise with more reliable controllers of the ball like Lamela (who is probably the best on the team with utilizing his first touch to relieve pressure/find space) and Winks (pushes Lamela close). You will find that you will be right quite often with the latter 2 and mostly wrong with Dele touches.

I'm starting to think that you're one of those who confuses opinion with facts.

 

[smallsnc]

I think, with both Toby and Wanyama out, Eriksen and Dele are doing more defensive work and it is affecting their game. While I love Winks in CM, I really believe he needs a DM partner which we have not been playing with lately. Having that destroyer, frees up Eriksen and Dele to attack higher up without worry as much as what is behind them. When they are playing in a 3 man middle with Winks, they do not have that same freedom. Dembele with Winks might be the temporary solution to making Dele and Eriksen come back to form.

 

[heelspurs]

When he plays deeper he rarely gives the ball away, which probably means that he's been instructed to play a bit more carelessly when further up the pitch.

Does not "probably mean" this in the slightest. He may have been explicitly instructed to be more careful in possession when in the 3MF but it could also have been the fact that those games have come against teams where we are sitting back and having less possession. And even if he has been instructed to be more bold when played further forward his attempts have not justified the faith. As someone has already said he needs to understand his many limitations (something I freely admit is age related) and were he to get his first touch under control he might be more successful.

 

[heelspurs]

Just putting it out there but does anyone think he's suffering from not having Wanyama in the team?

Big Vic was so good at winning the ball back and giving it to Dembele or Eriksen last season, who would then find the fullbacks (when Wanyama didn't himself) who would then feed Dele and Kane. It's led him to be a little deeper or come wider to look for the ball rather than being up the around the box as a second striker feeding off of Kane or looking for the ball from the other players with a quick pass.

I'd love to know the regularity of the combination of Wanyama to AN Other to Alli from last season.

Good point and not just Dele, the whole team.

 

[heelspurs]

I'm starting to think that you're one of those who confuses opinion with facts.

What I am not confusing is the fact that you think this ad hom substitutes as a valid counter argument to my points. Swing and miss.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Dele's touch is awful and often take 3 and 4 touches to control the balls that he doesn't lose.

I'm starting to think that you're one of those who confuses opinion with facts.

It does not compute for me why you singled out the first quote when responding. This is literally fact – not opinion. Yes of course, we all know that the first touch in the sense of running into the box and shoving the ball into the net – that touch is incredible. However, talking about first touch only in the sense of passing and receiving out on the pitch in general, I mean it is truly goddarn awful at times.

 

[E17yid]

It does not compute for me why you singled out the first quote when responding. This is literally fact – not opinion. Yes of course, we all know that the first touch in the sense of running into the box and shoving the ball into the net – that touch is incredible. However, talking about first touch only in the sense of passing and receiving out on the pitch in general, I mean it is truly goddarn awful at times.

At times but it’s hardly as bad as say Sisssoko.

I think a lot of his poor touches, in the situations you, and others, describe come from being targeted by 2 or 3 people and instead of quickly assessing the situation and playing the percentages he tries to do some Cruyff turn and nutmeg all in one movement.

As others have said I think with Wanyama back he’ll have more freedom to find the space but it’s something he needs to work on, for sure.

 

[heelspurs]

It does not compute for me why you singled out the first quote when responding. This is literally fact – not opinion. Yes of course, we all know that the first touch in the sense of running into the box and shoving the ball into the net – that touch is incredible. However, talking about first touch only in the sense of passing and receiving out on the pitch in general, I mean it is truly goddarn awful at times.

Yeah, even I will admit that his first touch into the net is friggin mesmerizing. Even to the point that I knowingly and unfairly blame him for missing the one at ManU and this weekend. I know that more reliable goalscorers or skilled footballers wouldn't have nailed some of his goals such is his 1 touch instinct into the net. I have seen Aguero miss many like this. But to his credit I have become as expectant of him popping these in as I have of him bumbling touches further outfield.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

At times but it’s hardly as bad as say Sisssoko.
.

Which is why I am continuously advocating for including Dele in the team, and not including Sissoko.

I think a lot of his poor touches, in the situations you, and others, describe come from being targeted by 2 or 3 people and instead of quickly assessing the situation and playing the percentages he tries to do some Cruyff turn and nutmeg all in one movement.
.

In fact, I had indeed in the back of my mind situations when Dele is completely free and under no pressure, and still messes up in his trademark Bambi-on-ice fashion.

 

[Streetspur77]

What I am not confusing is the fact that you think this ad hom substitutes as a valid counter argument to my points. Swing and miss.

Brave of you to cry 'ad hom' considering the number of times you have attempted to ridicule other posters intelligence for not having such an anti-dele bias as you

 

[WiganSpur]

If you are a midfield player the amount of times you lose the ball is surely as important as the amount of goals you might get. For strikers and defenders it's a different story maybe but one of the primary jobs of a midfielder is to take care of the ball.

I do not actually think there is one position on the pitch that is suited perfectly to Alli.

 

[Nebby]

What I am not confusing is the fact that you think this ad hom substitutes as a valid counter argument to my points. Swing and miss.

Instead of having a flounce and playing the victim, how about you come up with a few stats to back up your point? If you can't then you really are confusing opinion with fact. You reckon Dele "often takes" 3 or 4 touches to control the ball. If that's true (and this is the bit where I think your opinion is getting in the way of the facts), that means that of the 666 times Dele has touched the ball in the Premier League this season, anywhere between 80 and 110 of those touches were him trying to regain control of the ball. Is that really what you see happening on the pitch?