Dele Alli - Player watch

[St José Dominguez]

Impossible. Where would we find a long, rangey MF that can score goals AND actually control a ball, pass a ball, press like a demon, and have a little leadership as well? That type of player would be very expensive. Impossible to find.



Oh wait, he will actually be free in 6 months...or available, un-cup-tied, for a 'Holtby-type situation' in January. I would have to assume we have our feelers in on this one considering the Bentaleb transaction. If we didn't then we were negligent. Dele is not irreplaceable.

Scoring ten goals in his last 65 Bundesliga games is not evidence of his capabilities of replacing Dele.
Pulisic has 5 goals in his last 41 Bundesliga appearances.
He and these two are completely different players, they have massive qualities he doesn't but he has something I'm not sure you can teach. I don't know why you'd so happily take away what Dele brings to us over the last two years. Goals are a very difficult thing to replace and neither of those two have shown any evidence of replacing them.

Pulisic though I think is going to be an absolute star and I've said many times we should be all over him, however it should be in addition to Dele. Imagine the amount of goals he'd be getting if he's got the brains of Eriksen and the electricity of Pulisic around him.

 

[Donki]

You are correct. Without his goals or assists what is he? Average, in this case, would be improvement. For the majority of most games he plays I long for 'average', a nice consistent average MF that can control a ball and pass a ball. It's why I love Harry Winks. He is above what would be described as 'average' but it's the fact that he is reliable in all capacities. Dele is not.

And yes we can agree to disagree but I would hasten to add you came at me and I am not the one that is denying the evidence on display and trying to make it match up with my hopes and dreams for a player. Once you see it, you'll see I'm right.

How did I come at you? If you take goals and assists away from most players they will be less impressive. Not denying how good Winks is at what he does, but he wont get the positive outcomes Dele will get you, even when he's having a poor season.

 

[heelspurs]

Lol mate, you can't tell me to "play the ball not the man" in one post then make a dig at another member in basically the very next post, then tell me I'm embarrassing myself for calling you on it. Have you heard the story of the pot and the black kettle?

I thought my implied acceptance of your previous point was clear by my explicit defense/justification of my position. I guess it wasn't. Yes, there is some irony there but in my defense he had it coming. Do you think I should have answered sincerely?

 

[heelspurs]

How did I come at you? If you take goals and assists away from most players they will be less impressive. Not denying how good Winks is at what he does, but he wont get the positive outcomes Dele will get you, even when he's having a poor season.

Is that all you appreciate in a footballer? How would you rate Zidane, Maldini, Modric, etc etc. Tap ins don't make a footballer. You could half all the goals Messi has ever scored and he would still be impressive and better than any player this decade. Some say goals are a distraction. Shit, @Bus-Conductor watches goalless games on endless repeat for the hot goal-mouth on goul-mouth action.

Any good footballer with Dele's remit and absolute freedom would have scored a bucket load last year playing off Harry. And if Dele didn't play as if he had tertiary syphilis he would have scored double what he did. He spurns sitter after friggin sitter. How many has he missed already this year?

 

[heelspurs]

Scoring ten goals in his last 65 Bundesliga games is not evidence of his capabilities of replacing Dele.
Pulisic has 5 goals in his last 41 Bundesliga appearances.
He and these two are completely different players, they have massive qualities he doesn't but he has something I'm not sure you can teach. I don't know why you'd so happily take away what Dele brings to us over the last two years. Goals are a very difficult thing to replace and neither of those two have shown any evidence of replacing them.

Pulisic though I think is going to be an absolute star and I've said many times we should be all over him, however it should be in addition to Dele. Imagine the amount of goals he'd be getting if he's got the brains of Eriksen and the electricity of Pulisic around him.

Do you watch Schalke? BVB? If so, how many games? If not, then...

 

[Donki]

Is that all you appreciate in a footballer? How would you rate Zidane, Maldini, Modric, etc etc. Tap ins don't make a footballer. You could half all the goals Messi has ever scored and he would still be impressive and better than any player this decade. Some say goals are a distraction. Shit, @Bus-Conductor watches goalless games on endless repeat for the hot goal-mouth on goul-mouth action.

Any good footballer with Dele's remit and absolute freedom would have scored a bucket load last year playing off Harry. And if Dele didn't play as if he had tertiary syphilis he would have scored double what he did. He spurns sitter after friggin sitter. How many has he missed already this year?

You have quoted 3 players in the world class bracket, none of which were who they were at Dele's age and no goals and assists aren't what define a footballer depending on where they play on the pitch. Your now saying Dele should have scored 32 goals last season? There is no point debating further you clearly don't rate Dele, I do why go round and round in circles?

 

[thebenjamin]

Silly comment and now everyone that reads it will have been made dumber for their efforts.

To disabuse you of any other foolish thoughts you may have re: German footballers. German clubs do not pay foolish wages. Their transfer fees are not silly unless it involves one of the foolish English clubs. German players move to other teams to get paid and even then get paid less than others because of their previous wages. Draxler, much higher profile than Goretzka, is still on less than 100K Euros at PSG...after moving for big money to Wolfsburg. Goretzka is also in the last 8 months of his contract so they can let him go for cheap in Jan or free in the summer if he decides to leave.

And as far as having 0% chance to sign him well that is up to the Poch and Daniel selling the project. but you say this like you have actual insight and aren't aren't talking bollocks. Had you even heard of Goretzka? Did you know of Pulisic before our CL game? So are you suggesting we shouldn't try?

Christ. You're making yourself look a bit silly here. You really think Dortmund would let one of the world's great young talents and commercial goldmine Pulisic leave for less than £100m? Like they did with Ousamane Dembele I suppose. And what do you think Dembele's on at Barcelona, the THFC standard £70K & bonuses?

 

[Streetspur77]

You are correct. Without his goals or assists what is he? Average, in this case, would be improvement. For the majority of most games he plays I long for 'average', a nice consistent average MF that can control a ball and pass a ball. It's why I love Harry Winks. He is above what would be described as 'average' but it's the fact that he is reliable in all capacities. Dele is not.

And yes we can agree to disagree but I would hasten to add you came at me and I am not the one that is denying the evidence on display and trying to make it match up with my hopes and dreams for a player. Once you see it, you'll see I'm right.

So without goals or assists, because they obvioisly don't mean anything, where are these two dudes significantly better than
Alli?

In an easier league aswell

(Cue ad hominem about my intelligence for daring to disagree)

 

[Donki]

So without goals or assists, because they obvioisly don't mean anything, where are these two dudes significantly better than
Alli?

In an easier league aswell

(Cue ad hominem about my intelligence for daring to disagree) View attachment 34298

This should be interesting, you are probably using the wrong stats though .

 

[heelspurs]

Christ. You're making yourself look a bit silly here. You really think Dortmund would let one of the world's great young talents and commercial goldmine Pulisic leave for less than £100m? Like they did with Ousamane Dembele I suppose. And what do you think Dembele's on at Barcelona, the THFC standard £70K & bonuses?

Nope, that would just be you.

Strawmen are great aren't they? Show me where I said anything about "Pulisic leav[ing] for less than 100m"? C'mon now, we will wait. Can you show us? Who looks more than a bit silly now.

Now come back when you want to debate/ridicule an actual point I made.

 

[heelspurs]

You have quoted 3 players in the world class bracket, none of which were who they were at Dele's age and no goals and assists aren't what define a footballer depending on where they play on the pitch. Your now saying Dele should have scored 32 goals last season? There is no point debating further you clearly don't rate Dele, I do why go round and round in circles?

Seriously? Has it taken you this long to realize that? I see him for what he is, a very effective player with timing and space. But he benefits from the freedom he gets in our team.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Do you watch Schalke? BVB? If so, how many games? If not, then...

Someone's grumpy. Yes I do, can't put an exact number on how many games over the last two years which I'm incredibly sorry about.

 

[heelspurs]

So without goals or assists, because they obvioisly don't mean anything, where are these two dudes significantly better than
Alli?

In an easier league aswell

(Cue ad hominem about my intelligence for daring to disagree)

...or lack thereof heyyoooooo. Hey, you laid the pass, I just tapped it in.

Have you seen me throw out an ad hom here today? I play the ball until someone throws out something stupid and undeserving of an actual response. Then I typically ridicule.

I didn't make the "take away goals and assists" point, Donki did. He made the "Dele is still good if you take away goals/assist" hypothetical. I wholeheartedly disagree but I was following his setup so don't take the piss as it was merely a construct for debate.

And to answer your point would you allow me a little latitude? Have you ever seen either of them play outside of our first CL game? If so, how many games? Answer those and I will respond. My point being if you only understand football and a players ability by going on squawka then... Because judging by your question I can only assume you have never seen them play...in their inferior league.

This should be interesting, you are probably using the wrong stats though .

btw, you keep saying your going away, I don't rate him so it's no use, agree to disagree but you keep popping up. Why is that?

 

[heelspurs]

Someone's grumpy. Yes I do, can't put an exact number on how many games over the last two years which I'm incredibly sorry about.

...aaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddd that smells like bullshit.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Right, that's enough now. Stop trolling, stop bickering, try to be a bit less confrontational and argue like grown ups.

Thank you.

 

[Donki]

...or lack thereof heyyoooooo. Hey, you laid the pass, I just tapped it in.

Have you seen me throw out an ad hom here today? I play the ball until someone throws out something stupid and undeserving of an actual response. Then I typically ridicule.

I didn't make the "take away goals and assists" point, Donki did. He made the "Dele is still good if you take away goals/assist" hypothetical. I wholeheartedly disagree but I was following his setup so don't take the piss as it was merely a construct for debate.

And to answer your point would you allow me a little latitude? Have you ever seen either of them play outside of our first CL game? If so, how many games? Answer those and I will respond. My point being if you only understand football and a players ability by going on squawka then... Because judging by your question I can only assume you have never seen them play...in their inferior league.


btw, you keep saying your going away, I don't rate him so it's no use, agree to disagree but you keep popping up. Why is that?

I was with drawing the debate from you as it was pointless, can I not post in the thread now?

Actually reading you last post we actually agree on some things in Dele it seems, he's an effective goal scorer, who does get assists, that's his game. What we don't agree on is I think his current displays are he is in a poor run of form, you think this is simply his base level.

 

[Donki]

Right, that's enough now. Stop trolling, stop bickering, try to be a bit less confrontational and argue like grown ups.

Thank you.

Are you calling me confrontational you prick?

 

[heelspurs]

I was with drawing the debate from you as it was pointless, can I not post in the thread now?

Actually reading you last post we actually agree on some things in Dele it seems, he's an effective goal scorer, who does get assists, that's his game. What we don't agree on is I think his current displays are he is in a poor run of form, you think this is simply his base level.

Bam, correct! I think I have been saying this all along. To not cede the goals/assists would be silly on my part as they are facts. But it is his other 'contributions' that people have a problem with and have been stating such since as far back as the return tie in the Aston Villa game back in the "Leicester year". That was my tipping point from "this guy needs to round out his game" to "holy shit this guy is a poor footballer". Some don't rate him and aren't willing to put up with the bumble for the possibility of a moment of magic; some people will; and some people rate everything about him and have a wank everytime he nutmegs a player. I don't.

 

[heelspurs]

Are you calling me confrontational you prick?

Of course he wasn't. You wouldn't know what confrontational is if it bit you in the ass. I'm sure we could get many other posters in here that could do a job better than you with dropping a bollock every third try.

 

[Streetspur77]

...or lack thereof heyyoooooo. Hey, you laid the pass, I just tapped it in.

Have you seen me throw out an ad hom here today? I play the ball until someone throws out something stupid and undeserving of an actual response. Then I typically ridicule.

I didn't make the "take away goals and assists" point, Donki did. He made the "Dele is still good if you take away goals/assist" hypothetical. I wholeheartedly disagree but I was following his setup so don't take the piss as it was merely a construct for debate.

And to answer your point would you allow me a little latitude? Have you ever seen either of them play outside of our first CL game? If so, how many games? Answer those and I will respond. My point being if you only understand football and a players ability by going on squawka then... Because judging by your question I can only assume you have never seen them play...in their inferior league.


btw, you keep saying your going away, I don't rate him so it's no use, agree to disagree but you keep popping up. Why is that?

You keep talking about 'his other contributions' but I've shown you stats that show they are in line with your two darlings and you just ignore them? But ok, we aren't basing this on goals or assists, or any other recognised statistic, or any piece of evidence at all. Just on your anecdotal evidence and anyone who doesn't have such a broad, encyclopaedic knowledge of football can't comment on whether we should spend many millions on replacing a player with other players with similar stats. What a great debate this is.