Dos Santos/Gold Cup

[Pringle]

Posted earlier in the thread.



Gio scored a fantastic chipped goal from the edge of the box for Barca, and scored another excellent chip in the clip above for Racing.

So, his chip for Mexico merely confirmed what many of us have always known through the evidence of our own eyes: Gio is technically excellent and has never been given a run of games at Spurs to adapt to the pace of English football.

All the rest is gossip and opinion.

I think you need to find out what an opinion is, as the paragraph above that statement was an opinion :rofl:

What is a fact is that Barca didnt deem him good enough, we didnt deem him good enough, Galatasaray didnt deem him good enough and as things stand no one is willing to take a punt on him. As things stand, those are facts.

ps - sticking in a you tube video to back up a point is normally deemed as a pretty desperate attempt........

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

TwoSaintsDidntComeMarching

Crazy talent, I just wish he'd apply himself in a Spurs shirt. I also think Harry is part of the problem in this regard.

 

[nedley]

Does well for Mexico, but never delivered for us .... time to move on.

Never had the chance too.

Never deserved the chance by all acounts.

 

[yanno]

I think you need to find out what an opinion is, as the paragraph above that statement was an opinion.

I wrote:
Dos Santos has exceptional ability: he's technically great, fast, low centre of gravity, can play all across the front line and scores goals. If you look at his goals for Racing, three were poacher's goals including two with his head. He also chipped the keeper from the edge of the area for his fifth goal.

This is fact. Not opinion.

ps - sticking in a you tube video to back up a point is normally deemed as a pretty desperate attempt........

So what should we go with? "'Arry doesn't play him so he can't be all" that type opinions based on innuendo and rumour?

I out-argued you last time, so you NegRepped me. I didn't bother responding in kind.

I fully expect you and your mate Spurs Bear to NegRep me again for daring to challenge your opinion of Gio.

However, the YouTube videos of Gio that I've posted at SC over the years include footage of him in Barca's academy, at the U17 and U19 World Cup (where he was voted amongst the top three players at both competitions) and playing for Barca.

If you watched his hattrick performance for Barca (against a lower half La Liga side), you will know that Gio played in the Iniesta midfield role. One of the goals he scored involved Gio collecting the ball on the half way line, playing a series of 1-2s with his teammates, until he arrived on the edge of the box, where he chipped the keeper.

Classic Barca pass and move football.

Anyone who saw the pre-season friendly under Ramos where he played one half with one of our unintelligent forwards, and one half with Berbatov, could see that he immediately came alive alongside the Bulgarian. The two knew how to play intelligent pass and move football. Gio would play the ball into Berbatov and make a run and Berba found him. This happened 3 or 4 times in a half of football. Then we sold Berba.

Now, with the likes of Modric, VDV and Kranjcar, Gio should have been in our squad week in week out because he would have been on the same wavelength as these players, and could have adapted to the pace of the EPL rather than being farmed out to different leagues with different demands.

We're still being linked with Joe Cole.

Why? Gio is younger, potentially better, fitter, is already a Spurs player (so no transfer fee), and is probably on a third or less of Cole's wages.

Will he be given a chance at Spurs?

I hope so.

But I doubt it.

 

[Pringle]

yanno - from what i remember a load of people negative repped you and belittled you for your bad points and aggressive posting style (just summed up by saying you out argued me - i debate with people, not argue with them; a little tragic that you come on here looking to "out argue" people.......

secondly - "Dos Santos has exceptional ability: he's technically great, fast, low centre of gravity, can play all across the front line and scores goals." the highlighted bit is opinion not fact. Thirdly - yeah he scores goals - 11 club goals in his career. Or maybe you could talk about his international record with goals against Haiti, Venezuala (2), Costa Rica (3), USA.

Linked with J Cole? Does that make it true? Jeez some people are so nieve!

 

[yanno]

yanno - from what i remember a load of people negative repped you and belittled you for your bad points and aggressive posting style (just summed up by saying you out argued me - i debate with people, not argue with them; a little tragic that you come on here looking to "out argue" people.......

No, actually just you and Spurs Bear.

secondly - "Dos Santos has exceptional ability: he's technically great, fast, low centre of gravity, (snip) the highlighted bit is opinion not fact.

No, it's fact.

Unless you are arguing that Gio is not technically exceptional, is not fast, and does not have a low centre of gravity.

Linked with J Cole? Does that make it true? Jeez some people are so nieve!

The point I'm making is simple.

Who is the better option for Spurs at this point in time?

The 22-year-old Giovani Dos Santos, who can play all across the front line, is already a Spurs player, and is probably on around a third or less of Joe Cole's wages;

Or

The 29-year-old Joe Cole, who has been injury plagued for the last couple of seasons, is on huge wages, and who Kenny Dalglish didn't judge good enough for a starting spot when fit in the second half of last season, and would cost a several million pound transfer fee.

In my opinion, because now we are talking about opinions, Gio is the better option for Spurs at this point in time.

 

[Pringle]

No, it's fact.

Unless you are arguing that Gio is not technically exceptional, is not fast, and does not have a low centre of gravity.



The point I'm making is simple.

Who is the better option for Spurs at this point in time?

The 22-year-old Giovani Dos Santos, who can play all across the front line, is already a Spurs player, and is probably on around a third or less of Joe Cole's wages;

Or

The 29-year-old Joe Cole, who has been injury plagued for the last couple of seasons, is on huge wages, and who Kenny Dalglish didn't judge good enough for a starting spot when fit in the second half of last season.

In my opinion, because now we are talking about opinions, Gio is the better option for Spurs.

You really do need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact. I am embaressed for you that you are unsure.

re the J Cole bit - i dont get why you are bringing that up? I dont remember reading on here that anyone was saying J Cole should come in to replace GDS? Sounds like you are just making up points to suit your agenda! You are right that Kenny didnt deem J Cole good enough - just like Guardiola and then Redknapp didnt deem GDS good enough.

As myself and many others (no not just me and spursbear) have said, GDS is worth a squad place but hasnt done anything to suggest he deserves more. If things change then great, I will be more than happy for him to succeed with us.

Anyway, i wont be responding to you on this topic again - there are plenty of posters who ive enjoyed debating with on here even though we have different opinions but you clearly are following me and spursbear around and have even admitted you are trying to argue. The forum is a place of discussion and debate - not a place to massage your ego behind a keyboard and monitor.

 

[Mabsy]

No they don't.

Send GDS to the Swans, he'd be brilliant in their side...

I think this is the only reasonable solution

 

[yanno]

You really do need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact. I am embaressed for you that you are unsure.

It's embarrassed. And I am, for you.

Anyway, i wont be responding to you on this topic again - there are plenty of posters who ive enjoyed debating with on here even though we have different opinions but you clearly are following me and spursbear around and have even admitted you are trying to argue. The forum is a place of discussion and debate - not a place to massage your ego behind a keyboard and monitor.

Pringle - Spurs Bear trolls Bus Conductor's posts relentlessly and highly irritatingly, adding little but bile.

And you're wrong that I've been following you around. I haven't, and won't.

A look at this thread and how it unfolded should clarify that.

All I've been doing is putting the case that Gio is technically very talented, has not been given a run at Spurs, and must have despaired when week after week he didn't make the Spurs matchday 18.

The primary aggressive poster in this thread has been you, in your criticism of Gio. You and I are on opposite sides of that debate.

That is all.

 

[Pringle]

It's embarrassed. And I am, for you.

If you are going to be pedantic and point out a spelling mistake, then at least ensure your grammar is spot on please. Sentences do not start with the word "and". :rofl:

 

[rich75]

I wrote:
Dos Santos has exceptional ability: he's technically great, fast, low centre of gravity, can play all across the front line and scores goals. If you look at his goals for Racing, three were poacher's goals including two with his head. He also chipped the keeper from the edge of the area for his fifth goal.

This is fact. Not opinion.

Actually, you wrote:

"So, his chip for Mexico merely confirmed what many of us have always known through the evidence of our own eyes: Gio is technically excellent and has never been given a run of games at Spurs to adapt to the pace of English football."

Saying that he needed a run of games to adapt to the pace of English football is opinion, not fact. It cannot ever be fact unless he was given a run ( how many games is that by the way ? ) and found himself struggling with the pace to which he then adapted. Given that you claim he wasn't given a run of games then you're in no more position than anyone else to know whether it is factually correct that this lack of games is what held him back.

 

[yanno]

Actually, you wrote:

"So, his chip for Mexico merely confirmed what many of us have always known through the evidence of our own eyes: Gio is technically excellent and has never been given a run of games at Spurs to adapt to the pace of English football."

Saying that he needed a run of games to adapt to the pace of English football is opinion, not fact. It cannot ever be fact unless he was given a run ( how many games is that by the way ? ) and found himself struggling with the pace to which he then adapted. Given that you claim he wasn't given a run of games then you're in no more position than anyone else to know whether it is factually correct that this lack of games is what held him back.

Two points.

Firstly, Pringle deliberately drew attention to a part of my post which he highlighted.

Secondly, it is a fact, not a claim, that Gio has never been given a run in the Spurs first team.

Pretty much every foreign footballer who signs for an English Premier League club talks about how it is the fastest league in the world, and it's taken playing time to adapt.

 

[rich75]

Two points.

Firstly, Pringle deliberately drew attention to a part of my post which he highlighted.

??? eh? he drew attention the the paragraph I quoted

Secondly, it is a fact, not a claim, that Gio has never been given a run in the Spurs first team.

Again, what constitutes a run.

Pretty much every foreign footballer who signs for an English Premier League club talks about how it is the fastest league in the world, and it's taken playing time to adapt.

Regardless of what "Pretty much every foreign footballer who signs for an English Premier League club" talks about ( they talk about an awful lot of things other than the games pace as well ) , it is still your opinion that Dos Santos failed at Spurs due to a lack of games in order to help him adjust to the leagues pace. That is not a fact, it's an opinion. If you don't see that then...well, I have no idea, because it's pretty bleeding obvious

 

[RickyVilla]

He's great on Championship Manager

 

[yanno]

Regardless of what "Pretty much every foreign footballer who signs for an English Premier League club" talks about ( they talk about an awful lot of things other than the games pace as well ) , it is still your opinion that Dos Santos failed at Spurs due to a lack of games in order to help him adjust to the leagues pace. That is not a fact, it's an opinion. If you don't see that then...well, I have no idea, because it's pretty bleeding obvious

I wrote:

"So, his chip for Mexico merely confirmed what many of us have always known through the evidence of our own eyes: Gio is technically excellent and has never been given a run of games at Spurs to adapt to the pace of English football."

Yes, this is fact.

 

[rich75]

I wrote:

"So, his chip for Mexico merely confirmed what many of us have always known through the evidence of our own eyes: Gio is technically excellent and has never been given a run of games at Spurs to adapt to the pace of English football."

Yes, this is fact.

:grin: nope, it's opinion.

Third time, what constitutes a run?

 

[yanno]

:grin: nope, it's opinion.

Third time, what constitutes a run?

:grin:

Nope, it's a fact that he's never been given a run in the Spurs team.

What is the highest number of consecutive Premier League starts that Gio has been given in three seasons at Spurs?

 

[Pringle]

i wouldnt bother rich - he has already admitted he likes to argue with people. If he wants to think that saying Gio is "technically excellent" is a fact rather than an opinion then more fool him - everyone else knows it is an opinion.

 

[wallyjakeman]

Just to answer a couple of your points

1 - Has he ever made it in a good team or in a good league?
2 - I never said Mexico are shit? I simply said that playing for them and scoring doesnt mean he is great or even good enough for us. Look at Crouch's record for England, or Healy's record for NI...............

All you have continued to do in this thread is come up with many reasons why he didnt make it at Barca, with us, with Galatasaray and use his performances for Mexico in a sub standard competition as some sort of proof that he is good enough. As i said before - they are just excuses. He hasnt made it at any of his clubs and although he had a couple of good performances at the WC (0 goals, 0 assists) and cameos for us and Barca he hasnt shown that he has the potential that you and a couple of others seem to think. When he comes back and proves me wrong please tell me, but until then - its just excuses.

Over and out :hump:

And as I said before, it's not excuses. I have a different opinion than you and i am trying to explain why. Arguments, not excuses. :wink:

 

[Real_madyidd]

What is the point of this debate?