England Woman’s Team

Maxtremist

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Jun 11, 2014
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#81
You can't get tone across through quotes but from everything I've seen there was nothing nasty, spiteful, accusatory or even slightly racist about the 'joke'.


If said in an angry manner "Make sure they don't bring Ebola with them" as he storms off then yes it could be racially motivated

but

If said in a chatty light hearted manner of "(ha) make sure they don't bring any Ebola over with them". I hate the phrase 'banter' but a football environment has far more banter of this kind than a typical office job.
Whilst intent is part of it... I don't think it's enough to excuse you of something. I wouldn't want anyone to say comments like that about me or my family. I personally wouldn't find it funny or see the joke in it. It's honestly a little bit racist no matter what the intent is.

I certainly think there's a difference between calling someone racist and saying that someone made a racist comment. In this case, I personally honestly believe that's a racist comment. Especially in the position that Sampson was in.
 

KILLA_SIN

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May 24, 2008
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3,643
#82
I'm not intending to attack Aluoko, but I'm sorry, if you have strong conviction that you believe you were racially abused and bullied, you don't go and continue playing for that manager. You raise the issue instantly with the FA, not wait until you're out of the squad because someone else has replaced you.
Nonsense, Many times we have to hold back on complaining because you can wave goodbye to any chance of progression or promotion, and you will be labelled a trouble maker. How do I know this because when I have spoken to friends and family who have done otherwise they have suffered more so than the person who said the comment. Bite your tongue and wait your time. Thankfully I have worked for myself since I was 24. My wife on the other hand must complain about this too me at least twice a year. And I have to always tell her best she keep quite or will just be labelled as sensitive and causing trouble.

Now if this wasn't the workplace and someone said something to myself or her I would deal with this in a very different way. A more enjoyable way.
 

WalkerboyUK

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Jun 8, 2009
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14,974
#83
Like I said, in 2014 we had the biggest outbreak of Ebola in history and massive controls went into place at all our airports.
Seems to me he made a comment that was related to that and the fact her parents were travelling from Africa.
To me that seems like a comment based on misinformation and generalisation rather than racist.
However, I have never had to encounter racism so maybe I'm also just misinformed as to what racism is.
 

SugarRay

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Jul 6, 2011
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#84
I wish the BBC would stump up some real money for some proper sport, maybe even get some decent football back.

Then they'll stop pushing this women's football thing. It's beyond shit! They'd get a better standard if they decided to show men's non-league stuff. Would give a much needed boost to the game at that level too.
 

Maxtremist

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#86
Like I said, in 2014 we had the biggest outbreak of Ebola in history and massive controls went into place at all our airports.
Seems to me he made a comment that was related to that and the fact her parents were travelling from Africa.
To me that seems like a comment based on misinformation and generalisation rather than racist.
However, I have never had to encounter racism so maybe I'm also just misinformed as to what racism is.
Well a lot of it is down to misinformation and assumptions etc...
For me, it's never been anyone calling me the N-Word or shit like that, it's always assumptions based about me or my families upbringing or life. Very rarely meant with malice but they're assumptions and comments made purely based on the colour of my skin with no factor for who I am and the life I've actually lived etc...

Sampson's comments fall in line with that, no matter how much he intended them to be or not, it was a comment based on assumptions that stem from Aluko's skin colour/her race and her families race. Even with the context of the Ebola outbreak.. it's still not enough to make that comment, let alone to try and almost pass it off as a joke. So for me, I find what he said racist. As does Aluko and many others.

I respect that not everyone may see it that way and they're more than welcome to... nevertheless I don't agree with them and that viewpoint.
 

KILLA_SIN

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#87
Like I said, in 2014 we had the biggest outbreak of Ebola in history and massive controls went into place at all our airports.
Seems to me he made a comment that was related to that and the fact her parents were travelling from Africa.
To me that seems like a comment based on misinformation and generalisation rather than racist.
However, I have never had to encounter racism so maybe I'm also just misinformed as to what racism is.
You don't know what it is, Its not being called the N word or the P word, that is so rare to ever come across that now, its the more underhanded, insidious remarks hidden behind humor and banter. People purposely say it in such way so they can hide behind 'I didn't mean it like that', or it was a joke. I'm brown, would I make a joke to black person about Ebola, absolutely not.

And really don't understand the problem with her being compensated Samson was probably on a lot of money coaching England.
 
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Maxtremist

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664
#88
I wish the BBC would stump up some real money for some proper sport, maybe even get some decent football back.

Then they'll stop pushing this women's football thing. It's beyond shit! They'd get a better standard if they decided to show men's non-league stuff. Would give a much needed boost to the game at that level too.
Cause the women's league doesn't need a boost at all to improve them and make them even better?

I'm sorry but can we stop talking down women's football. Women's sports in general shouldn't be looked down upon and neither should Women's football. Let them play their game, let BBC promote it.

The more BBC promote it, the money can hopefully go into the game and inspire more women to play and more focus and attention can be paid to them and training them and as such the quality will improve and keep improving. It's a valid thing. Don't be a dick and talk it down. We're better than that now, surely?
 

Maxtremist

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#89
So if someone calls @aliyid a sheep shagging Welsh *** what happens next?!?!
Xenophobic racism isnt it, or is that just a bit of banter?!?
Erm... yeah... kinda is a little racist/xenophobic.

Just as a general rule of thumb, in an argument if someone tells you something is wrong/frowned upon whatever... don't respond by bringing up another thing that other can be consider wrong or frowned upon.

"So we're saying example A is bad?? Well what about example B? Is that bad now too?" is not a good argument.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
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Mar 18, 2005
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#90
Like I said, in 2014 we had the biggest outbreak of Ebola in history and massive controls went into place at all our airports.
Seems to me he made a comment that was related to that and the fact her parents were travelling from Africa.
To me that seems like a comment based on misinformation and generalisation rather than racist.
However, I have never had to encounter racism so maybe I'm also just misinformed as to what racism is.
When my homosexual colleague said he was bringing his boyfriend to the Christmas party and I responded "make sure he doesn't bring the aids with him" was it right that I was fired or should my excuse of I was joking and meant no harm valid?
 

dontcallme

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#93
So do you both support the signing of Aurier?!? You know, that player who called his manager a faggot...
You really do like mixing apples and oranges to miss a point don't you?

In positions of authority you cannot say certain things.

If Poch calls a player a faggot he gets fired. A player gets punished but not fired.
 

Maxtremist

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#94
So do you both support the signing of Aurier?!? You know, that player who called his manager a faggot...
I messaged in the aurier thread before we signed him, I don't like that about his past at all. I'm glad he knows it's a mistake and has moved on from it.

Same with this, I'm not calling Sampson a racist or a horrible person. I'm saying that comment was racist and in his position he shouldn't have said it. Aurier's comment was homophobic and he shouldn't have said it. He's admitted he was wrong and moved on. Sampson hasn't admitted wrongdoing.
 

WalkerboyUK

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#95
So do you both support the signing of Aurier?!? You know, that player who called his manager a faggot...
You really do like mixing apples and oranges to miss a point don't you?

In positions of authority you cannot say certain things.

If Poch calls a player a faggot he gets fired. A player gets punished but not fired.
Position of authority is irrelevant when it comes to racism or homphobia.
Same punishment should apply.
 

WalkerboyUK

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#96
So do you both support the signing of Aurier?!? You know, that player who called his manager a faggot...
I messaged in the aurier thread before we signed him, I don't like that about his past at all. I'm glad he knows it's a mistake and has moved on from it.

Same with this, I'm not calling Sampson a racist or a horrible person. I'm saying that comment was racist and in his position he shouldn't have said it. Aurier's comment was homophobic and he shouldn't have said it. He's admitted he was wrong and moved on. Sampson hasn't admitted wrongdoing.
But Sampson saying he is sorry would mean he feels guilty.
He clearly doesn't feel he said anything wrong.
I'm sure, had he been found guilty by the investigations then there would have been an apology.
Why apologise for something you've been found not guilty of?!?
 

Maxtremist

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#97
But Sampson saying he is sorry would mean he feels guilty.
He clearly doesn't feel he said anything wrong.
I'm sure, had he been found guilty by the investigations then there would have been an apology.
Why apologise for something you've been found not guilty of?!?
Because apologies aren't about being caught. He can apologise for how his comment came across despite his intention.
 

Navin R Johnson

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Aug 29, 2011
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#98
I mean she wasn't going to give up until she succeeded in getting him sacked.
She would have pursued investigation after investigation given the opportunity.
She took £80k and then went public when the investigation was closed. Has she handed that cash back now, or donated to charity??

All I'm saying is that he may well have made a comment, but was it racist?? That's open to interpretation.
In her interpretation it was (but only after she was left out of the England squad), in the opinion of others it wasn't.

Didn't this incident happen in 2014/2015?
If so, anyone with an ounce of conviction that they were racially abused would have refused to play for England under Sampson... She carried on playing for another 12-18 months!!
Stop digging.
 

SheffieldAndy

Friends with the monster under my bed.
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#99
I've read through this thread and seen that the issue obviously polarises opinion. I'm genuinely interested to find out posters opinions regarding if Aluko had been white, and from a white family in Africa, if there'd still apparently have been assumptions made about her skin colour/race or her families race by Sampson. Or in this case would it be seen as harmless, a joke or something else?

I don't really know my feelings on the actual issue as it seems to be a lot of hearsay from both parties involved, and we don't really know the full facts (and may never do), but reading the thread and some of the replies, the above question came to mind.
 
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DJS

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Dec 9, 2006
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I don't get why a bloke is in charge of the women's team? Seems odd to me.

Haven't they got enough former female players now to take up a coaching role?
 
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