ENIC...

[Rocksuperstar]

The more I think about it, the more the timing of the other day makes sense.

ESL was always going to blow up, so bury the Jose sacking - something which on a normal day would've been all over the back pages - then smother it in ice cream by appointing Mason - a known fan favorite - as the boss until further notice.

We're almost a footnote in the ESL "scandal", we're the, "oh, yeah, and Spurs" and I don't see our fans picketing in number large enough that they wouldn't immediately blend in with a normal match-day crowd, so as a PR chicane goes, Levy has maneuvered around this one pretty well, imo.

Even if he does end up taking a stomping for even suggesting we might be involved, staying quiet is very much his m.o.,* and I think at least us and the Woolwich have a pretty fair stab at arguing that, with the prospect of our direct competitors declaring their interest, we'd have been business idiots to have not at least expressed an interest, and argue that Perez, or whoever that other dude was fronting this up, jumped the gun in announcing they were solidly involved or something.

It'll be long, and boring, and a lot of finger pointing will go on, but ultimately... I stopped caring about * here

 

[Spirit of '61]

I'm gonna post in here and not the ESL specific thread because I think this situation with Levy is bigger than that.

I'll open by saying that I think that there should be consequences to some of the decisions that Levy has made over the last 18 months. I want to see him held accountable for the choices he has been making.

However I'm pragmatic and when the talk concerns ENIC selling, I can't say I want them to sell until I know who we would be selling to. With the size and valuation of the club as it is now, I analyse the type of people who actually would have the money to buy us and typically people who have that kind of money have made it in questionable ways so I wonder if we're now too big and it'd take a miracle to find an ethically decent owner. If we were in a scenario where those type of possible owners were available then I'd be absolutely banging the drum that ENIC need to leave on the back of this ESL Fiasco.

I think the divide for supports when it comes to Levy/ENIC has always been; Do you think he does the best for Tottenham Hotspur the business or do you think he does the best for Tottenham Hotspur the football club (meaning the fans).

I think the balanced fans among us would have liked to have believed that by doing the best for the business that in turn gives the best possible chance for doing best for the fans, even if it was a long term strategy. In the short term it could be incredibly frustrating but there was a sentiment there that we were betting set up to be best placed to become one of the elite off the pitch now so we could become one of the elite on the pitch.

For me that viewpoint died over this week, this was not a decision made in the best interest of loyal Tottenham supporters. This was purely a business decision looking to extract money from casual fans around the club regardless of their sentiment towards tottenham and with a judgement that we lemmings would just have to go along with it. It was a decision which turned it's back on the ethos of this football club, the ethos of this being a working class sport and the 150 years of footballing traditions in this country. This was about stuffing the Tottenham Turkey even further regardless of what us fans felt about the decisions and the fact we weren't consulted on it should tell you all you need to know on how much they valued our opinion.

I was shocked at how many fans tried to justify it because "Man City and Chelsea". I thought we loved the moral high ground we held over these clubs? Yes we want the owners to invest but not at the expense of having sport washing, I thought we loved that our stadium meant we were going to grow organically. Instead people had an attitude of well if you can't beat em, join em and decided that there wasn't ever a possibility that Levy could actually show integrity and stand by the game he pretends he was a fan of as a boy.

He built us a giant stadium, a stadium we all love, we all miss going to. A stadium we hope will lead us to a bright future but Levy can not use that stadium to justify the greed that was signing up to this closed league. Let's not forget something, not a single fan asked that this new stadium be built for a billion quid. Not a single Spurs fan asked for it to also have an NFL pitch, a sky walk, all these fancy bits added on. Not a single one of us demanded that of him. That was his decision and his decision alone. We were happy for it but on the basis that we wouldn't sell our soul to fund it and that he could carefully manage the debt so it didn't cripple the football club. If he is now telling us that he had to make this decision because of the stadium debt then he has colossally fucked up. If he built this stadium and didn't prepare for every worst case scenario, every eventuality even if nobody saw a pandemic coming, he fucked up because he was the one who made the choice to build this stadium at such an expense. He could have built a stadium at a more manageable cost which was the plan in the first place. We're all hoping his masterplan works out for the best with the stadium, that it brings it unrivalled revenue and that we can go back to calling him a genius for doing it and not crippling the club with debt but right now it looks like if he needs to try and ruin English football because of the decision he made then he fucked up big time and it's on him and it's no good crying oh but the stadium when he was the one that made the choices he did with the stadium.

This ESL thing is not the only thing he has screwed up in recent times. The situation with Jose was entirely his doing. He didn't analyse the makeup of our squad and analyse the situation at Chelsea and United and consider the possibility of it not being a good fit. Not only that but he managed to give an unemployed man ridiculous leverage in his contract.

However the big mistake he has made recently is how he approached sacking the man. He waited until Champions League football was out of reach to make the decision. We still had it within our grasp and he waited and waited on it, this has cost the club the opportunity to fight for top4. This has cost the club the possibility of that revenue stream, the possibility of that potential ace up the sleeve when negotiating naming rights.

Speaking of naming rights, how is that going to go with our reputation recently taking a dent, why have we missed out on over a years worth of revenue looking for a deal which may not exist all the while Tottenham as a club look a worse and worse brand to pay eye watering sums week on week.

I question how we're going to be able to work with the other clubs in world football with Levy at the helm now, I wonder what it's done to our reputation on that front.

For me; if we can't find owners with a decent ethical background and are thusly stuck with ENIC, it's time for Daniel to stop being the face of the operation and retreat to the shadows, he can not be the footballing face of this club. We need a new man in charge of that image. I said when he sacked Poch that it felt like the last throw of the dice for Levy. Well look at the glaring errors he's made since that day, it's time for consequence. Nothing rivals this ESL mistake.

I think this recent ESL debacle has been instructive in one sence
We fans mostly regard the lifelong commitment each of us makes to 'our ' club as somehow analogous to a marriage.
We are faithful, supportive and for the most part blind to our partners faults.
So far so true .. meanwhile in reality the other participant in this relationship is in fact duplicitous, double dealing and playing away.

This little episode has given us all a nasty turn.. The curtain was lifted and we had a glimpse how these particular sausages are prepared for us...and for some who are rather fastidious may find this brush with reality a little disturbing.

 

[TheRevolution]

Awful communication from Levy these past few days. I mean Perez has been talking shite non stop but at least he's coming on camera and saying it. Really, really unfair on Mason and the players to have them take the brunt of this leafing up to a cup final.

 

[cliff jones]

His job is to maximise the value of their stake mainly by spending as little as he can get away with on the playing side, a market which is full of risk.

He only spends big when he falls behind, not when on the cusp of something big. Nelson and Saha, no one at all in that history making summer- not even one quality signing on Poch’s list.

But I’m still in the better the devil you know camp, certainly as football tries to emerge from the pandemic.

 

[dudu]

I really disagree with this. I actually find people to be very realistic on this, no one on here is expecting Haaland or Mbappe or even Dybala when it was mooted. We expect/want the Ndombele's and players in that bracket that could become top draw. Also on the subject of selling deadwood cheap - Levy has done a shocking job of selling players recently. The club have handled the situations with Vertonghen/Eriksen really poorly and let players run down their contracts. With slightly better recruitment we would comfortably be in the top four imo.

You can flip that too and said he did an amazing job of keeping players (something they are lambasted for not doing previously still to this day) by upping our wages significantly over a relatively short period of time.

 

[TheRevolution]

You can flip that too and said he did an amazing job of keeping players (something they are lambasted for not doing previously still to this day) by upping our wages significantly over a relatively short period of time.

I think that came with the territory of the new TV deal. I'm sure if you look at Burnley wage bill it has increased massively in that short time too.

 

[buckley]

All this throwing down the gauntlet and making threats to the six . It would be better if EUFA collectively put their minds to ring fencing and bringing in rules that would make this kind of move in the future from happening .
I have no idea how they would do that but they are being paid to run EUFA so surely with all the minds of men working for them can come up with something .

 

[dudu]

I think that came with the territory of the new TV deal. I'm sure if you look at Burnley wage bill it has increased massively in that short time too.

Fair point

 

[dudu]

I'm gonna post in here and not the ESL specific thread because I think this situation with Levy is bigger than that.

I'll open by saying that I think that there should be consequences to some of the decisions that Levy has made over the last 18 months. I want to see him held accountable for the choices he has been making.

However I'm pragmatic and when the talk concerns ENIC selling, I can't say I want them to sell until I know who we would be selling to. With the size and valuation of the club as it is now, I analyse the type of people who actually would have the money to buy us and typically people who have that kind of money have made it in questionable ways so I wonder if we're now too big and it'd take a miracle to find an ethically decent owner. If we were in a scenario where those type of possible owners were available then I'd be absolutely banging the drum that ENIC need to leave on the back of this ESL Fiasco.

I think the divide for supports when it comes to Levy/ENIC has always been; Do you think he does the best for Tottenham Hotspur the business or do you think he does the best for Tottenham Hotspur the football club (meaning the fans).

I think the balanced fans among us would have liked to have believed that by doing the best for the business that in turn gives the best possible chance for doing best for the fans, even if it was a long term strategy. In the short term it could be incredibly frustrating but there was a sentiment there that we were betting set up to be best placed to become one of the elite off the pitch now so we could become one of the elite on the pitch.

For me that viewpoint died over this week, this was not a decision made in the best interest of loyal Tottenham supporters. This was purely a business decision looking to extract money from casual fans around the club regardless of their sentiment towards tottenham and with a judgement that we lemmings would just have to go along with it. It was a decision which turned it's back on the ethos of this football club, the ethos of this being a working class sport and the 150 years of footballing traditions in this country. This was about stuffing the Tottenham Turkey even further regardless of what us fans felt about the decisions and the fact we weren't consulted on it should tell you all you need to know on how much they valued our opinion.

I was shocked at how many fans tried to justify it because "Man City and Chelsea". I thought we loved the moral high ground we held over these clubs? Yes we want the owners to invest but not at the expense of having sport washing, I thought we loved that our stadium meant we were going to grow organically. Instead people had an attitude of well if you can't beat em, join em and decided that there wasn't ever a possibility that Levy could actually show integrity and stand by the game he pretends he was a fan of as a boy.

He built us a giant stadium, a stadium we all love, we all miss going to. A stadium we hope will lead us to a bright future but Levy can not use that stadium to justify the greed that was signing up to this closed league. Let's not forget something, not a single fan asked that this new stadium be built for a billion quid. Not a single Spurs fan asked for it to also have an NFL pitch, a sky walk, all these fancy bits added on. Not a single one of us demanded that of him. That was his decision and his decision alone. We were happy for it but on the basis that we wouldn't sell our soul to fund it and that he could carefully manage the debt so it didn't cripple the football club. If he is now telling us that he had to make this decision because of the stadium debt then he has colossally fucked up. If he built this stadium and didn't prepare for every worst case scenario, every eventuality even if nobody saw a pandemic coming, he fucked up because he was the one who made the choice to build this stadium at such an expense. He could have built a stadium at a more manageable cost which was the plan in the first place. We're all hoping his masterplan works out for the best with the stadium, that it brings it unrivalled revenue and that we can go back to calling him a genius for doing it and not crippling the club with debt but right now it looks like if he needs to try and ruin English football because of the decision he made then he fucked up big time and it's on him and it's no good crying oh but the stadium when he was the one that made the choices he did with the stadium.

This ESL thing is not the only thing he has screwed up in recent times. The situation with Jose was entirely his doing. He didn't analyse the makeup of our squad and analyse the situation at Chelsea and United and consider the possibility of it not being a good fit. Not only that but he managed to give an unemployed man ridiculous leverage in his contract.

However the big mistake he has made recently is how he approached sacking the man. He waited until Champions League football was out of reach to make the decision. We still had it within our grasp and he waited and waited on it, this has cost the club the opportunity to fight for top4. This has cost the club the possibility of that revenue stream, the possibility of that potential ace up the sleeve when negotiating naming rights.

Speaking of naming rights, how is that going to go with our reputation recently taking a dent, why have we missed out on over a years worth of revenue looking for a deal which may not exist all the while Tottenham as a club look a worse and worse brand to pay eye watering sums week on week.

I question how we're going to be able to work with the other clubs in world football with Levy at the helm now, I wonder what it's done to our reputation on that front.

For me; if we can't find owners with a decent ethical background and are thusly stuck with ENIC, it's time for Daniel to stop being the face of the operation and retreat to the shadows, he can not be the footballing face of this club. We need a new man in charge of that image. I said when he sacked Poch that it felt like the last throw of the dice for Levy. Well look at the glaring errors he's made since that day, it's time for consequence. Nothing rivals this ESL mistake.

I think this would be a sensible thing to do. Ultimately, regardless of whether you think that he did or didn't have a choice to go with it, there is no doubt that it was the wrong decision and even as a BSODL seeing his face last night left a sour taste.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

even as a BSODL seeing his face last night left a sour taste.

haha, when he shown taking his seat I said "you dirty fourflushing ****" and Mrs A&C called from the kitchen "what?"

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Apparently Liverpool turned down a 3 billion dollar takeover offer around the time of the super league debacle. Interesting to see if they will look at other Super League teams. Not that I would be particularly interested in having Middle East owners.

 

[SpursSince1980]

There is no potential ethical owner of Tottenham because it is not ethical to have £1,500,000,000 or so lying around to chuck at a footballing vanity project when it could be put to so much greater good in the world. That's money that could be spent on science, research, anti-poverty, but instead we're asking them to spend it on Spurs. Nobody who makes that choice is ethical, so I find that whole idea pointless. My two criteria therefore are a) are they rich capitalist unethical or murderous dictatorship unethical and b) are they any good at running a football club. ENIC "win" on the first criteria, while the second is more dubious but I believe better than *most* (not all) of the alternatives we see at other teams.

This is a matter of perspective or how the term ‘owner‘ is defined. If a business investment group like, CBS Viacom or Kraft, decides to buy a football team for 1.5bn, then they see it as an investment. Not a plaything. To them, it is about business growth. Should Netflix pay Rian Johnson 417mn for two Knives Out sequels? Or, Amazon pay close to 1bn for the rights to Tolkien’s LOTR ip? Should Microsoft pay billions for Bethesda? Could all of the above use all that money on helping the world? Of course. But, they are businesses, doing what businesses do.... invest in opportunities to grow the company’s revenue.

All professional Sports teams... esp those in leagues and sports that are worth billions in tv, merchandising, branding etc be considered any differently then say... a Bethesda? Or Beats Audio? No. Because at the end of the day, they’re still businesses. They are company”s that are an attractive investment opportunity for the potential revenue that comes from their product... be it people, IP, customers, data, etc.

An owner can be an individual too. Is it ethical that former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer bought the LA Clippers for 2bn? Based on your criteria above, I would agree, that his buying of the team is basically awarding himself a present. A toy. He isn’t sweating PnL statements. He could have put that money toward something that gives back. But then again, all for-profit companies can theoretically do the same thing. Instead of spending a few billion on Bethesda, Microsoft could have given that money to Red Cross. It’s a lovely idea. And in a perfect world, that is how things should work. But if Microsoft did the above, they are a publicly traded company. Their stock would crater if they gave away all their profits, people would lose income. Some even their jobs.

There can also be individual potential owners out there who have a large net worth, and want to buy a PL team... not as a vanity project, but as an investment. But again, is it ethical to take 80% of their net worth and invest it into a sports business? As a way to grow their net worth? Is that moral? That can be debated. The better question for me... Is it fair that we live in a world where millions need help, and the money spent by a business or a single person on wildly expensive investments, is being funneled back into a system to make them even more money, to make even bigger investments, that in the end disproportionately benefit the few? No. It’s not. But that’s free market capitalism.

And whether we like it or lump it, no matter who takes over... it still all ultimately boils down to a select set of individuals who will make millions from the investment or blow away millions just cos it’s a toy that needs more toys.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Get the fuck out of the Club.

 

[Yiddo100]

Get the fuck out of the Club.

Agreed Levy’s performance at CB was poor today

 

[TheRevolution]

The greatest trick these fuckers have ever pulled is convincing you braindead fucks that we're a small club punching above our weight.

 

[GutBucket]

Gave us a nice house, just need better furniture now.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

They’ll never leave unless they are forced out

 

[synththfc]

We lost this game when we went 18 months without buying or selling any players. Get the fuck out.

 

[LeParisien]

Get the fuck out of the Club.

This is embarrassing

 

[shelfboy68]

Gave us a nice house, just need better furniture now.

No good when the people that own the property are unable to do so they have to fuck off.