Eric Dier- defender or midfielder ?

['O Zio]

He's done as a CM for me unless we have a real injury crisis again. In an emergency he can do a job there but he's just not good enough at it now to stake a claim for a place. Honestly I don't think he should be starting as a CB either but as a backup I think he's good enough. Especially because he can cover midfield as well. I don't understand the calls to sell him though. Makes far more sense to keep him around as a sort of John O'Shea type versatility backup player unless someone offers silly money for him, which it doesn't seem there's much chance of.

It's a shame really because I really like the guy and he did have that 1 season at CM wehere he looked good but he's just gone backwards ever since. I'm trying not to write him off completley though because last season he was carrying injuries for most of it so not really fair to judge him.

 

[Shadydan]

The Toby situation still seems to be unclear, which complicates things. Agree with your assessment otherwise.

If Toby goes I'm perfectly fine with him and Sanchez fighting it out for the senior CB position with Foyth covering although I reckon that Poch will want to bring someone in to replace him.

 

[brendanb50]

He's done as a CM for me unless we have a real injury crisis again. In an emergency he can do a job there but he's just not good enough at it now to stake a claim for a place. Honestly I don't think he should be starting as a CB either but as a backup I think he's good enough. Especially because he can cover midfield as well. I don't understand the calls to sell him though. Makes far more sense to keep him around as a sort of John O'Shea type versatility backup player unless someone offers silly money for him, which it doesn't seem there's much chance of.

It's a shame really because I really like the guy and he did have that 1 season at CM wehere he looked good but he's just gone backwards ever since. I'm trying not to write him off completley though because last season he was carrying injuries for most of it so not really fair to judge him.

I don't disagree with this assessment but i'd bear in mind he has struggled with injuries during this period. This affects form and confidence.

His place at the moment is probably as you've said but for me he can still stake a claim to a starting spot. He's physical, hardworking and tactically plays the game well when asked to slot between defenders or push into midfield. Yes his development has slowed and maybe he hasn't got much more room to improve but given his mentality, i'd be surprised if that's the case. I think he's limited as a CM but as a DM he offers something for me.

I hope we see more of him this season as well as many others in our squad, who've struggled with injuries this year.

 

['O Zio]

I don't disagree with this assessment but i'd bear in mind he has struggled with injuries during this period. This affects form and confidence.

His place at the moment is probably as you've said but for me he can still stake a claim to a starting spot. He's physical, hardworking and tactically plays the game well when asked to slot between defenders or push into midfield. Yes his development has slowed and maybe he hasn't got much more room to improve but given his mentality, i'd be surprised if that's the case. I think he's limited as a CM but as a DM he offers something for me.

I hope we see more of him this season as well as many others in our squad, who've struggled with injuries this year.

Yeah it was a bad year all round for injuries and/or fatigue so I'm hoping a well-earned rest for most of them will see us back at our best next year.

 

[dtxspurs]

Pretty simple, he's both. It allows us to play like this when we have the ball (assuming we buy Lo Celso and sell Eriksen). Winks & Sissoko don't have the ability to shift into a back three and I don't think we adjusted well to that last season which found us out quite a bit with our fullbacks way up the pitch and not enough defenders at the back to be safe when we turned the ball over.

 

[spids]

I’d like to think his long term future is at CB, which is where Poch apparently sees him too, but want to see how our potential CM pairings gel. People have very short memories and forget how good Dier can be. Last season he had bad luck with injuries and was another WC player who did not get a proper pre-season.

 

[BC87X]

He's done as a CM for me unless we have a real injury crisis again. In an emergency he can do a job there but he's just not good enough at it now to stake a claim for a place. Honestly I don't think he should be starting as a CB either but as a backup I think he's good enough. Especially because he can cover midfield as well. I don't understand the calls to sell him though. Makes far more sense to keep him around as a sort of John O'Shea type versatility backup player unless someone offers silly money for him, which it doesn't seem there's much chance of.

It's a shame really because I really like the guy and he did have that 1 season at CM wehere he looked good but he's just gone backwards ever since. I'm trying not to write him off completley though because last season he was carrying injuries for most of it so not really fair to judge him.

I agree with everything you said, but your whole argument on why we should keep him rests on him accepting to be a bench player. Something, I don't see him doing, which is why I think he will move on.

Lets not forget there was serious talk of United pursuing him and we ended up blocking that move as we saw him as a crucial clog in our midfield two seasons later he will struggle to break through and might become jaded for screwing him over.

 

['O Zio]

I agree with everything you said, but your whole argument on why we should keep him rests on him accepting to be a bench player. Something, I don't see him doing, which is why I think he will move on.

Lets not forget there was serious talk of United pursuing him and we ended up blocking that move as we saw him as a crucial clog in our midfield two seasons later he will struggle to break through and might become jaded for screwing him over.

You make a fair point. The issue for him will be that I don't think there's quite the same level of interest in him that there was a couple of years ago.

 

[dtxspurs]

I just posted this in the transfer forum where not including Winks in a starting line up is considered blasphemy. Its why I think Dier will be a starter next year:

But with midfielders like Ndombele, Ceballos, Lo Celso & Eriksen (all potentially of course) why do we need a player like Winks to be the "deep lying midfielder"? What would be more valuable is Dier dropping back, forming a back 3, allowing the fullbacks to get higher and players like Ceballos, Lo Celso, Eriksen & Ndombele to attack.

 

[Joely]

He's become a jack of all trades master of none. The modern day midfielder has to have a more all round game and he just doesn't have it. Can look very ponderous in midfield, especially against the better teams who press him and don't give him any time.

Can do a job for us in certain games but I just don't see him as a starter in midfield if next season we have Ndombele, Sissoko, Caballos and Winks. Think the better teams in the league are moving away from having an out and out sitting midfielder. Can see Poch wanting his midfielders to have the legs to be able to get about the midfield and all pitch in defensively and Dier doesn't really fit that mould.

As a defender, don't think his concentration levels are up to it and if Toby stays, he'll have 3 players ahead of him. Who knows. if Foyth makes strides next season, may make things even more difficult for him.

However definitely useful player to have in the squad but I think he'll want to starting games fairly regularly and not convinced he'll get that.

 

[Lilbaz]

Pretty simple, he's both. It allows us to play like this when we have the ball (assuming we buy Lo Celso and sell Eriksen). Winks & Sissoko don't have the ability to shift into a back three and I don't think we adjusted well to that last season which found us out quite a bit with our fullbacks way up the pitch and not enough defenders at the back to be safe when we turned the ball over.

View attachment 52527

Sanchez will be there instead of dier. He was bought for his pace as wembley was a longer pitch than whl (nwhl is the same length as wembley) and toby and jan struggled with teams breaking. Rotation would be necessary though.

 

[Japhet]

I just posted this in the transfer forum where not including Winks in a starting line up is considered blasphemy. Its why I think Dier will be a starter next year:

But with midfielders like Ndombele, Ceballos, Lo Celso & Eriksen (all potentially of course) why do we need a player like Winks to be the "deep lying midfielder"? What would be more valuable is Dier dropping back, forming a back 3, allowing the fullbacks to get higher and players like Ceballos, Lo Celso, Eriksen & Ndombele to attack.

I don't think we'll be seeing a back 3 much now. Dier's unique talent was enabling us to switch formations at any time but, IMO, Winks uses the ball much better and quicker in the deep midfield area. As I've said many times before, if Dier would play that role more like Makalele and less like trying to be Pirlo, he'd be of greater value. I think Poch will try him as Toby's replacement personally, but I think he'll be behind Sanchez in that role. Bit of a problem all round really and a proper head scratcher for Poch.

 

[dtxspurs]

Sanchez will be there instead of dier. He was bought for his pace as wembley was a longer pitch than whl (nwhl is the same length as wembley) and toby and jan struggled with teams breaking. Rotation would be necessary though.

Toby & Jan would be left back their on an island because Winks & Sissoko can't fit back into a back 3 for defensive protection when we're on the attack.

 

[dtxspurs]

I don't think we'll be seeing a back 3 much now. Dier's unique talent was enabling us to switch formations at any time but, IMO, Winks uses the ball much better and quicker in the deep midfield area. As I've said many times before, if Dier would play that role more like Makalele and less like trying to be Pirlo, he'd be of greater value. I think Poch will try him as Toby's replacement personally, but I think he'll be behind Sanchez in that role. Bit of a problem all round really and a proper head scratcher for Poch.

But why do we need Winks to "dictate tempo" when we'll have 2 other midfielders who can do that and are better offensively with the ball. There is no top team in world football who doesn't utilize a DM outside of PSG and it always bites them in the ass in the UCL. Thats literally it, everyone else has a dedicated DM. I don't think Tottenham is going to be the team to break the mold.

 

[Lilbaz]

Toby & Jan would be left back their on an island because Winks & Sissoko can't fit back into a back 3 for defensive protection when we're on the attack.

I understand what you are saying and know how it works. Just saying that with the longer pitch it doesn't work aswell as it did at whl. That is why we bought sanchez, to stop teams getting behind us on the break.

As i said dier gives us options. I wouldn't want him gone. He is a great utility player that gives us options.

 

[wishkah]

Just popped up on the BBC at Wimbledon

 

[NorthernYido]

I thought that when he first started playing midfield he did well playing and holding a deep position. But as the team has evolved Poch no longer has a dedicated 'holder', all CMs are expected to carry the ball and support upfield, and he doesn't have the physicality for it; Coupled sadly with the fact that he hasn't progressed in the last season or two.
I think he should work hard going back into defense, if doesn't want to then sell imo

 

[daveduvet]

I think he needs to get fit again and shed a few pounds. I see him as a CB.. there were times several seasons back that he was unplayable.. if that’s still in him I feel he’s an essential part of the squad...

 

[coys200]

Actually bordering on looking tubby at Wimbledon today definitely needs to shift some timber.

 

[tooey]

Toby & Jan would be left back their on an island because Winks & Sissoko can't fit back into a back 3 for defensive protection when we're on the attack.

My question would be why do we require a cm to drop back into the defensive line? Maybe against Liverpool or City it's of use due to their ability on the counter but we haven't played that system regularly for a long time. If you watch Dier when playing as a CDM his issue is that he's always caught inbetween the lines and ends up getting passed around with ease. He doesn't slot inbetween the CBs yet he doesn't actively go to win the ball back, he usually ends up statuesque or running back to his own goal, pointing at players doing his best Robbie Keane impression.