Fear of speaking your mind

[Archibald&Crooks]

This 'formation makes no difference' argument is stupid. Shall we play no one at the back and 10 up front?

Makes no difference……….

 

[Kendall]

This 'formation makes no difference' argument is stupid. Shall we play no one at the back and 10 up front?

You don't get it, do you?

 

[Stoof]

Cheese?

Double cheese.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

What I meant by a tactical system is one that is well disciplined. We never seemed that under Redknapp and I don't think we are under Tim either. He's letting players play expressively and it's great in the short term as we needed a change around.. Conte at Juve is very strict about the roles of his players but at the same time lets them play with flexibility. The 3-5-2 he adopts is a very flexible system and he has the players to suit it.

I think AVB was far too restrictive and lacked a plan B, that's my summary of his downfall at least. I disagree that he didn't play the right players. Soldado scored shitloads at Valencia on his own up front. The formation was right, even the players were at times, it was the approach to the game that was wrong. Playing a high line whilst camping outside of the opposition box trying to break through. It was like watching a seige at times and as long as the opposition defence stayed compact and disciplined we couldn't get anywhere. We'd then be susceptible to a long ball over the top of our high line leaving Lloris with a hell of a lot to do. We lacked any flair, guile or creativity and were so bloody predictable. To me that is being rigid, especially when your only solution for playing 70 minutes of possession football and getting nowhere is just to swap the strikers.

I'm not an AVB hater, I like what he did for us defensively through his methodical and organised approach when he first joined. It was great to have a manager that actually seemed to want to have a style and a philosophy to try to take us to the next level and I really wanted him to do well (like any Spurs boss!). However, as I said in my original post, there is a balance that we lacked under AVB, and we lacked it under Redknapp too but for different reasons. It's bloody hard to find that balance, even some of the best teams in the league lack it at times, but that's what will get you success. Bayern last year were phenomenal. Not only did they have a fantastic attack scoring 11 goals in 4 games against Juve and Barcelona, but they were so well organised at the back that they didn't concede a single goal against 2 teams that almost guarantee goals.

That formation may have been alright with Ade leading the line but i'm sorry it was never going to work with Soldado, the game is quicker and more physical over here, at the end of the day the ball wasn't sticking, we couldn't get enough people in the box, everything had to be so perfect for us to create chances. For me that's why we couldn't get anywhere in an attacking sense I dont think it had much to do with a high line. At the end of the day we can all name the best teams with the best players in it and say they've got the balance right and they've got a tactical system. Were never going to look as good as bayern Munich, Barcalona etc because we just haven't got as good a group of players as them, it really is just that simple at times. Is Guardiola playing the same system or tempo with Bayern than he did with Barca? no because it's a group of players with different skillsets playing in a league that is higher tempo and more physical. To create chances going forward we might leave ourselves a little bit more open at the back. It's about what your prepared to sacrifice a little bit for getting the optimum out of your team. I added something to my previous post probably at the time you posted this asking if the man utd side that won the treble had a tactical system, it's about as classic 4-4-2 as you can get yet they took apart teams some of which were playing 3-5-2 at the time.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yeah, you dont want to give your wicket up but you also want to score to keep the board ticking over and keep the pressure off the other end. Also to put pressure on the other team. If they know you're not going to play any shots they can set any field and attack how they want. Anyway enough with the cricket analogies.

Regarding Bale he was pretty good for both and he was always going to take more responsibility when Modric and VDV left.

That optimistic rating covered both sections by the way.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Double cheese.

We don't get burgers over in West Upper If I want one it has to come from outside the ground.

 

[Stoof]

We don't get burgers over in West Upper If I want one it has to come from outside the ground.

Oh mine did. I always go to the same man.

In any case, and to avoid spamming this thread so ridiculously, there's no point bleating on about being right.

That's why I post less.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

AVB's tactics were supposed to use the fullbacks for width and we created a fair bit before Rose got injured. If he'd replaced BAE with an attacking fullback like Coentrao and kept Rose as backup, he'd probably still have his job imo.

I can't believe you genuinely believe that.

 

[HobbitSpur]

This 'formation makes no difference' argument is stupid. Shall we play no one at the back and 10 up front?

If the 10 up front are all playing defensively, that is less attacking than a 10-1 formation that is attack minded. It is little to do with the formation, and how they utilise the players.

Most teams switch about so much nowadays that formations are put together by commentators after they receive the team sheets to give themselves something to talk about.

 

[Boots]

People will always have different views on what's best for the Club they support. There aren't necessarily right and wrong ways all the time, more preferences.

But everybody is entitled to an opinion - you don't have to agree with it, but you should respect the fact that we're all Spurs and we're all entitled to an opinion on such matters.

Telling others to go and support Chelsea because they don't concur with your viewpoint is totally hypocritical in terms of what you're complaining about...not posting for fear of abuse etc.

Do you not see the irony in that?

Well said.

 

[JerryGarcia]

I can't believe you genuinely believe that.

What that he'd still have his job?

I do think that if we had a bit more balance and some quality at LB that we'd have turned a few of those losses (Newcastle and West Ham) into wins and we'd be around 2nd/3rd in the league. Do you think Levy would have sacked him under those conditions because I don't, although I respect that you have your own opinion.

 

[Bulletspur]

I speak my mind... and I don't give a fook.

As being yourself is the biggest honour you can give to people on this site, rather than tapping away trying to be eveyones best buddy, yadda yadda yadda and hiding behind that internet persona.

Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has got one.

I want a mutant as a manager a merger between AVB and TS, AVB for everything except man management and attacking, TS for those two things, as ultimately this is what everyone wants.

I speak your mind!

 

[Jaispurs]

What that he'd still have his job?

I do think that if we had a bit more balance and some quality at LB that we'd have turned a few of those losses (Newcastle and West Ham) into wins and we'd be around 2nd/3rd in the league. Do you think Levy would have sacked him under those conditions because I don't, although I respect that you have your own opinion.

He had Fryers and BAE in his squad. Chose to play Naughton or Verts and ignore Fryers and loan out BAE.

He got the sack because he constantly played square pegs in round holes and ostracised players (like he did at Chavski)

 

[idontgetit]

If the 10 up front are all playing defensively, that is less attacking than a 10-1 formation that is attack minded. It is little to do with the formation, and how they utilise the players.

Most teams switch about so much nowadays that formations are put together by commentators after they receive the team sheets to give themselves something to talk about.

If they're upfront and therefor playing in the opponents half they can't play anyone offside and therefore can't be defensive

Haha but yeah I get your point man, I just think that tactics, players selection and formation are all inter-related and have an effect whether set out consciously or subconsciously. All of them have an effect. Mentality of course is another enormous factor

 

[JamieDaCosta]

Being a long standing member of SC I have stayed away for the last few months.

It seems that there was a furore for mentioning Harry Redknapp, 4-4-2, attacking football, Spurs way. Negative repping and endless abuse hurled at the poster or commenter.
i wrote a post when Spurs beat Man U last season saying I was wrong about AVB. I wasn't. I was right all along.

I was so bored going to WHL this season. I had fallen out of love with the club. The football was dull as dishwater and nothing was happening.
We were so predictable, open to one pass through and bang - goal.

I'm so glad we have our Tottenham back. Forget all this possession stats, text book drivel spouting and look at what happens on the turf.

I expect a torrent of abuse for this but am glad that poison has gone and want TS to succeed to shut all the text book. 4-2-3-1 tacticians up.

Enjoy the game for what it is, fun. Sport isn't worth watching if its Geoffrey Boycott defending an innings all the time - 0 runs after 6 hours at the crease.

I like Petersen, Ginola, Bale, Lennon, Adebayor - genius yet can always let you down too. That's the excitement of the game.

If you like tactical genius then go and support Chelski - dull as hell

Great post mate, I really liked reading that and I agree with what you said for sure

 

[teok]

I think while having a rating system for posts can be fun it does encourage groupthink which I don't think is good but perhaps that is a discussion for another thread.

 

[JerryGarcia]

He had Fryers and BAE in his squad. Chose to play Naughton or Verts and ignore Fryers and loan out BAE.

He got the sack because he constantly played square pegs in round holes and ostracised players (like he did at Chavski)

Yes he had Fryers who many on here still don't think should be anywhere near the first team, and he had BAE who he didn't rate/want for a possible combination of reasons. He was known to want Coentrao but couldn't get him so stuck with Rose who then got injured and led to the lack of balance/quality that I mentioned.

It was a mistake but that could be as much down to Levy as it was to AVB for all we know.

 

[idontgetit]

That formation may have been alright with Ade leading the line but i'm sorry it was never going to work with Soldado, the game is quicker and more physical over here, at the end of the day the ball wasn't sticking, we couldn't get enough people in the box, everything had to be so perfect for us to create chances. For me that's why we couldn't get anywhere in an attacking sense I dont think it had much to do with a high line. At the end of the day we can all name the best teams with the best players in it and say they've got the balance right and they've got a tactical system. Were never going to look as good as bayern Munich, Barcalona etc because we just haven't got as good a group of players as them, it really is just that simple at times. Is Guardiola playing the same system or tempo with Bayern than he did with Barca? no because it's a group of players with different skillsets playing in a league that is higher tempo and more physical. To create chances going forward we might leave ourselves a little bit more open at the back. It's about what your prepared to sacrifice a little bit for getting the optimum out of your team. I added something to my previous post probably at the time you posted this asking if the man utd side that won the treble had a tactical system, it's about as classic 4-4-2 as you can get yet they took apart teams some of which were playing 3-5-2 at the time.

I think if you'd taken any 'under-performing' player out of our side and put them in say this years Southampton or previous seasons Swansea teams they'd have looked like World beaters even though those teams have very much inferior squads to us. They had an excellent system, we didn't. It definitely could have worked for us playing Soldado up front on his own but unfortunately AVB had no idea how to use his own formation properly. 4-2-3-1 wasn't ideal for us bit it could definitely have been made to work

 

[Donki]

I think if you'd taken any 'under-performing' player out of our side and put them in say this years Southampton or previous seasons Swansea teams they'd have looked like World beaters even though those teams have very much inferior squads to us. They had an excellent system, we didn't. It definitely could have worked for us playing Soldado up front on his own but unfortunately AVB had no idea how to use his own formation properly. 4-2-3-1 wasn't ideal for us bit it could definitely have been made to work

Nail on head, nothing to do with the "formation" all to do with the tactics he deployed in his system.

 

[idontgetit]

I can't believe you genuinely believe that.

He'd definitely have had the job longer. It does show how tactically inept he was though. Plenty of people said we really needed another wing back in the transfer of window. Plenty of people said that once Rose got injured we'd struggle for pace and width down the left. Plenty of people said playing a right footed, slowish midfielder in front of a cb playing at lb would make our attacks down the left completely tame. AVB had barely realised all of that by the time he got fired