Federico Chiesa

[Ghost Hardware]

Juventus said he’s back to his best and not for sale anymore. He was transfer listed before apparently, but I guess with right offer who knows?

Yeah he’s looked a lot better this pre season. As you say he was transfer listed but he was also pushing to leave. Whilst officially he is now “off the market” I think they would still sell for the right price. They have had to pay for players like Locetelli and Kean this summer plus others (they actually pushed back the Locetelli obligation from last year to this summer somehow because they were broke) which has significantly dented their transfer activity. With 2 years left on his contract I do think we could still get him if we wanted him. Reality is I don’t think Juve will have the budget to offer him a good contract and I think they would be worried about having another Dybala situation.

 

[fb9]

It's an awful Injury. I can really understand both points of view on taking the gamble or not That's why I don't think we will see the best of Bentancur this season If ever again. Everyone watches him on the grass training but the reality is he's miles and miles away from returning and especially to the previous levels. Such a long process.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

It's an awful Injury. I can really understand both points of view on taking the gamble or not That's why I don't think we will see the best of Bentancur this season If ever again. Everyone watches him on the grass training but the reality is he's miles and miles away from returning and especially to the previous levels. Such a long process.

Agree, I think Bentancur is pretty much a write off for this season. When he gets back he will probably pick up lots of small muscle injuries here and there. Realistically we probably won’t get a good idea of where he’s at until next season. Still I do think these days, with the advancements in treatment’s, players have a much higher chance of getting back to their best. It just takes time for the body to fully recover and adjust.

I get Chiesa is a risk and I understand why some are hesitant. But so far this pre season the signs are very encouraging regardless if we buy him or not. I guess time will tell. What is true tho is pre injury he was well on his way to becoming one of the best forwards in the world.

 

[olliec]

I did read that Chiesa does want to leave as he’s not a fan of allegri’s tactics. He wants to goto club that plays more direct and on the front foot. Hello Ange!

 

[chas vs dave]

People keep saying that players never comeback from an acl, however some do.

Shearer and RVN for example. They did theirs relatively early in their careers. The had a decent career afterwards.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

We can't afford to spend £50m plus on players who are such a big risk physically. We simply don't have the resources to do that.

 

[WiganSpur]

We can't afford to spend £50m plus on players who are such a big risk physically. We simply don't have the resources to do that.

I'm not sure about Chiesa but if he's got a lot of issues it's worth avoiding for a big fee. The only exception i'd consider is Ansu Fati as he is still only 20 years old and so we can afford to give him time to get himself confidence back in his physical condition. He's also still got a lot of good qualities apart from his dribbling and pace.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

We can't afford to spend £50m plus on players who are such a big risk physically. We simply don't have the resources to do that.

I'm with you. I find it incredible how often I see comments on here that really amount to:
- It's not my money so...
- We should blow a huge number on (pick any of...) (a) player with limited sell on value (b) a player coming back from injury or some other element of risk (c) player for who we'd be bent over on the fee for (d) a player who plays in a position where we're already strong

I just don't get it. We need to think smarter than this. They may be excellent players, but the likes of Chiesa, Toney, Eze (and loads more) all have aspects to them that just don't make sense for a team that has to balance financials, think more long term and who also have clear gaps in the first team that need to be sorted.

Nothing against Chiesa - if we were confident of getting (and keeping) him fit, amazing. Great player. But 'misses' for us (i.e Ndombele) are incredibly damaging

 

[Ben1]

I'm with you. I find it incredible how often I see comments on here that really amount to:
- It's not my money so...
- We should blow a huge number on (pick any of...) (a) player with limited sell on value (b) a player coming back from injury or some other element of risk (c) player for who we'd be bent over on the fee for (d) a player who plays in a position where we're already strong

I just don't get it. We need to think smarter than this. They may be excellent players, but the likes of Chiesa, Toney, Eze (and loads more) all have aspects to them that just don't make sense for a team that has to balance financials, think more long term and who also have clear gaps in the first team that need to be sorted.

Nothing against Chiesa - if we were confident of getting (and keeping) him fit, amazing. Great player. But 'misses' for us (i.e Ndombele) are incredibly damaging

Tbf I think if Tottenham could sign a riskless player on the cheap, they’d have done it yesterday.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Tbf I think if Tottenham could sign a riskless player on the cheap, they’d have done it yesterday.

There's always a risk - there's a risk in signing the likes of Orban, in that he might not make it.

But I'd argue that's a better priced risk/reward judgement than someone like (in that instance) Toney, when you consider how it would sit alongside what we already have, and future sell on value

 

[WiganSpur]

There's always a risk - there's a risk in signing the likes of Orban, in that he might not make it.

But I'd argue that's a better priced risk/reward judgement than someone like (in that instance) Toney, when you consider how it would sit alongside what we already have, and future sell on value

Toney is a touch expensive for me. Brentford will want £85m + and we can't play him till January. Not that I blame Brentford for wanting that much but it's very pricey for a player who will be almost 28 by the time we sign him. It makes sense to try next summer when he's got a year left. Could probably get him for £55-60m.

Bring Orban in for now, then depending on how we go we can replace Sonny or Richy with a new striker next summer.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Toney is a touch expensive for me. Brentford will want £85m + and we can't play him till January. Not that I blame Brentford for wanting that much but it's very pricey for a player who will be almost 28 by the time we sign him. It makes sense to try next summer when he's got a year left. Could probably get him for £55-60m.

Bring Orban in for now, then depending on how we go we can replace Sonny or Richy with a new striker next summer.

Totally agree with that approach and the logic behind it

 

[rawhide]

I'm with you. I find it incredible how often I see comments on here that really amount to:
- It's not my money so...
- We should blow a huge number on (pick any of...) (a) player with limited sell on value (b) a player coming back from injury or some other element of risk (c) player for who we'd be bent over on the fee for (d) a player who plays in a position where we're already strong

I just don't get it. We need to think smarter than this. They may be excellent players, but the likes of Chiesa, Toney, Eze (and loads more) all have aspects to them that just don't make sense for a team that has to balance financials, think more long term and who also have clear gaps in the first team that need to be sorted.

Nothing against Chiesa - if we were confident of getting (and keeping) him fit, amazing. Great player. But 'misses' for us (i.e Ndombele) are incredibly damaging

The curse of “financials”.

Let’s be honest and say that resale value is largely irrelevant, as we don’t actually re-sell anyone whilst they actually have a value.

The only things that we as fans should be concerned about is, how they’d fit into the system/squad/team. All the focus on price and budget is the responsibility of the club, and the fans involvement in this aspect is basically as a result of Football Manager and other games like that which simplify how a business actually operates, because to be totally honest we don’t actually know what the budget or player cost is or payment details.

 

[WiganSpur]

Totally agree with that approach and the logic behind it

I would also be keeping an eye on Folarin Balogun. There is no way Arsenal will sell him to us, but if they shift him permanently abroad and he does well then we can throw big bucks at said club next summer to bring him back to England. I don't see an immediate obvious Kane replacement right now so I think we are better off being patient. Let's get a winger, Orban and CB in this window.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The curse of “financials”.

Is it a curse? Honestly, when we were at our most successful, a big part of that was the success we had in trading players. People look at selling players as a sign of weakness - nonsense. It's a really important part of any club that isn't bankrolled by a Middle Easter state or an oligarch. We have to consider it.

Let’s be honest and say that resale value is largely irrelevant, as we don’t actually re-sell anyone whilst they actually have a value.

It's not irrelevant though. Selling Bale and reinvesting it was very relevant. As were the profits we made on loads of squad players we've made over the years (not recently, I grant you). As is the huge loss we'll make on Ndombele. We can't, and must not say that, simply because at the moment we're struggling to make a profit on outgoings, it's not relevant.

I'm not suggesting we should replicate Brighton and flog our best players, but if we occasionally make it REALLY big on a few key players to the likes of Madrid, City etc. (i.e. a VERY small number of teams where money isn't an object) and make a profit (even a small one) on squad players to other clubs, it would go a really long way, IF coupled with smart investment.

The only things that we as fans should be concerned about is, how they’d fit into the system/squad/team.

I would agree that we're best placed to specifically comment on the above, fair comment.

All the focus on price and budget is the responsibility of the club, and the fans involvement in this aspect is basically as a result of Football Manager and other games like that which simplify how a business actually operates, because to be totally honest we don’t actually know what the budget or player cost is or payment details.

I would slightly differ on this. I think we probably can take a reasonable view on our finances. We publicly disclose our numbers. We know whether the top line is likely to increase (or not) based on our participation in Europe. We have a reasonable sense of the profit/loss balance of transfers.

It's a rough guide, but a guide none the less, in particular if you're professionally trained to understand these things.

Moreover, the guiding principle of 'not making a loss/making a return on a player' is a fairly reasonable one to follow.

Just my own perspective

 

[rawhide]

Is it a curse? Honestly, when we were at our most successful, a big part of that was the success we had in trading players. People look at selling players as a sign of weakness - nonsense. It's a really important part of any club that isn't bankrolled by a Middle Easter state or an oligarch. We have to consider it.



It's not irrelevant though. Selling Bale and reinvesting it was very relevant. As were the profits we made on loads of squad players we've made over the years (not recently, I grant you). As is the huge loss we'll make on Ndombele. We can't, and must not say that, simply because at the moment we're struggling to make a profit on outgoings, it's not relevant.

I'm not suggesting we should replicate Brighton and flog our best players, but if we occasionally make it REALLY big on a few key players to the likes of Madrid, City etc. (i.e. a VERY small number of teams where money isn't an object) and make a profit (even a small one) on squad players to other clubs, it would go a really long way, IF coupled with smart investment.



I would agree that we're best placed to specifically comment on the above, fair comment.



I would slightly differ on this. I think we probably can take a reasonable view on our finances. We publicly disclose our numbers. We know whether the top line is likely to increase (or not) based on our participation in Europe. We have a reasonable sense of the profit/loss balance of transfers.

It's a rough guide, but a guide none the less, in particular if you're professionally trained to understand these things.

Moreover, the guiding principle of 'not making a loss/making a return on a player' is a fairly reasonable one to follow.

Just my own perspective

I hear you. And I agree with some of your points. At least to some extent. But to address your responses.

Yes, financials are a curse - fans who have no idea about what construes a football transfer are focused on the basics of transfer fees and budgets, rather than the actual football and footballing benefits and risks.

The lack of sales was slightly more tongue in cheek, but the point remains that once again fans are fixated on “not making a loss” or “making a profit”. Have they any awareness of how the assets are written down in the accounts, how and over what term are they amortised (or do they even know what amortised is?). So this is an oversimplified view of profit and loss rather than an actual accounting view. And it takes away from the football.

I agree that selling players is not a sign of weakness (although it could be argued that it is an actual weakness for Spurs). For me, squad turnover is important to keep it fresh and competitive - we’ve struggled with a perception of comfort from many players knowing they will play so don’t need to make as much effort. A meritocratic team selection approach is vital to create competition and demonstrate to youngsters the route to the first team. Whether a “profit” on paper is made, whilst it feels good, should not matter to the everyday fan (though I acknowledge that smaller clubs rely on this as their financial model - but that’s not Spurs).

My point on the missing level of detail in the financials is that fans over analyse the basics, and get angry if they perceive an underspend. But I acknowledge that publicly available data does give some insight - but it’s not the whole picture - accountants train for years to be able to interpret the data accurately and effectively.

My overarching point was that a simplified view of the financial models we use can be counterproductive - and unfortunately dominates discussions. I overwhelmingly prefer to discuss the footballing benefits of players, rather than see pages of “I’d only pay £Xm for player Y” or “at that price, we should be looking at Z player instead”

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Nice link and love the player but like Vhalovic I really cannot see this happening at all, it'll be another 'we tried', they'll want silly money for him, he still has 2 years to run on his deal, if it was 1 year like Kane then maybe but just can't see it personally.

They would however make much more of a profit on him than Vhalovic as they paid €40 million for Chiesa compared to €70 million for Chiesa.

 

[SpartanSpur]

They would indeed be out of our reach without those horrendous injuries, but that's not a reason to buy them; there's a reason the clubs are willing to sell. It's like buying at a sale: you're not saving money if you don't actually need what you're buying, or if it's not fit for purpose.

Obviously will support anyone who comes in but these aren't players who've just gone out of form; they come with huge red flags.

Based on what @Ghost Hardware has been saying Chiesa could be coming back towards his old self, so in a way it could be the perfect time to go for him. One more season to prove he's back and he'll be out of reach again.

More upside to this one personally than Fati who has a much higher chance of repeat injury. In fact you could probably argue Vlahovic is more of a concern with his persistent injuries last season, almost Lamela-esque.

I think Chiesa would be an extremely exciting signing if possible, but there would of course be an air of caution around it. I didn't think ACLs were career threatening these days like they used to be - look at Callum Wilson as a prime example - so I'm quite surprised to hear how badly he's been affected. Must have been a particularly bad one.

Personally I'm pretty happy with all of our links (such as Orban) so I'm relatively confident whoever we bring in, as long as we get one of them for each position!

 

[Hertsspur10]

Chiesa is well suited to playing the right attacking forward role as well as the left too.

Considering WLB latest info and the potential kulu position change chiesa on the right could be great. Here's hoping.

 

[bbunc]

Chiesa would be my dream signing this summer. Hopefully the injury means a slight discount. Guy is absolute class.