Fitting AVB's philosophy

[BuffaloSid]

Conversely, it's also funny how one successful job can make it.

To be fair ...that one successful job was pretty awesome ..
Porto were near perfect that year !

 

[west indie]

fully agree with the backline blake, i think the 3 midfielders could consist of sandro, pienaar plus one(presuming modric is sold)

 

[StartingPrice]

1) As most of you know on here, AVB is expected to be unveiled on Monday. Obviously before he went to Chelsea he was one of the most, if not the most, exciting and in demand young managers on the planet. Chelsea paid £13m for him. Not a common thing when bringing in a manager. However, he was given the objective to filter out the older guard and bring through a young, attacking dynasty at Chelski. It didnt work out too well apparently.

So that brings us to now. Spurs are rumored to have agreed a 3 year deal worth around £1m per year for AVB. Basically, we have made the managerial equivalent of signing Adebayor on a free and having him agree a much lower wage. I think this should be good business for us. IF he plays the Tottenham way.

Although I wont claim to have followed his career in Portugal in minute to minute detail, I was aware of how well he was doing/did there. By all accounts the Porto team he was so successful with were a much more attacking and "spurs-like" team. This gives me some glimmer of hope that he wont transform us into the dull, defensive, shapeless bunch witness by the Stamford Bridge faithful for 9 months last season. Surely he has learned from his mistakes? Surely.

His attitude with 2) the media will need to improve also. However, a lot of the way he acted towards them could be attributed to how openly they were criticising him.

All in all, I am happy with the appointment (should it happen). Pre-Chelski I would have loved to see him squatting on the edge of his technical area, as home manager, in a navy suit at the Lane. Also, Modric was especially vocal on his more to Chelsea while AVB was at the helm........maybe he will now want to stay?

Thoughts?

1) Nope. I has beed naughty again

2) You do realise the media love to criticise us, anyway...and at this precise moment are in paroxysms of Redknapp-related Levy is a twat crit-fest, don't you?

 

[SpurSince57]

Was it really a disaster? When Levy introduced the continental DoF system by recruiting Arnesen we saw immediate improvement by finishing 5th, 5th and winning the League Cup...our first trophy 9 years. Under Sugar's tenure we never once finished in the top 6.

Under Redknapp our best players were all signed under the DoF structure. Many of Redknapp's signings have not shown any longevity in keeping a regular first team spot.

Of the players who were regulars last season only four—BAE, Kaboul, Bale and Modric—were regulars, and Kaboul had been sold because Ramos thought he was crap and then re-signed by Harry—who'd had an interest in him at Auxerre). I'm not really sure your statement holds much water.

In any case, one of our most reliable ITKs reckons the DoF system won't be reintroduced.

 

[StartingPrice]

Of the players who were regulars last season only four—BAE, Kaboul, Bale and Modric—were regulars, and Kaboul had been sold because Ramos thought he was crap and then re-signed by Harry—who'd had an interest in him at Auxerre). I'm not really sure your statement holds much water.

In any case, one of our most reliable ITKs reckons the DoF system won't be reintroduced.

1) Modric and Blae our two of our best three players. I would count that group as four of our six top performers, ATM.

2) Lennon was singed when levy was experimenting with the PleatMeister as DOF (I believe).

3) It is irrelevant taht Kaboul was sold by Ramos - the point was that he was signed under the DOF system, not that the manager at that time was a loonattic.

 

[jimmy-jojo]

If you were the manager, would you want someone else picking your transfers targets?

That's kind of beside the point. The real point I was trying make was that I don't think the DoF system was anywhere near being 'disastrous'.

 

[SpurSince57]

To be fair ...that one successful job was pretty awesome ..
Porto were near perfect that year !

They were, but as I've posted in a couple of other threads, it's altogether a surprise when they don't win the title.

 

[We'llWinThePrem]

If we do get AVB we will have to get a new GK in or play Gomes....

I could see AVB jizzing himself at the thought of

New GK
Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Benny

 

[bgoldie]

If we do get AVB we will have to get a new GK in or play Gomes....

I could see AVB jizzing himself at the thought of

New GK
Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Benny

Would Lloris be the type of sweeping gk that AVB likes? I haven't seen that much of him

 

[Hitch]

If we do get AVB we will have to get a new GK in or play Gomes....

I could see AVB jizzing himself at the thought of

New GK
Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Benny

I don't feel that Gomes is good enough with his feet nor quick enough out of the box to fulfill AVB's sweeper keeper requirements.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I don't feel that Gomes is good enough with his feet nor quick enough out of the box to fulfill AVB's sweeper keeper requirements.

Looked like he had his boots on the wrong feet a lot of the time. To me, anyway.

 

[Twizzle]

if I recall we played 433 formation alot during that 9 week horror stretch where we dropped from 3rd spot

I thought Bale and Lennon were wasted up front and they better serve us on the wing with space in front of them, although I think Lennon was also injured for part of that time

 

[Ionman34]

That telegraph article is fascinating, the detail is unreal. I suppose we as fans have a tendency to over simplify the game. Or is there an argument that he was over complicating a simple game. Is this technical style that flourishes on the continent too miss matched to the roll your sleeves up hard working English style and is there a risk that changing from Redknapps 'run about' level of technical nouse to a far more complex set up is too much of a transition.......too many questions I think I will feint!

That technical style has already been proven as successful by Cheatski under TSO. Many bewailed it as boring but it was far from that for the fans of the team as they were averaging, I believe, better than 2 goals per game whilst snuffing out opposition attacks. It killed off the 'open game' so loved by the neutral, but I'd blissfully listen to the opposition whining about this whilst we were putting them all to the sword.

The philosophy isn't really that complicated, quite logical really, it just needs dedicated intelligent players.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Some interesting things in the Telegraph interview although I think it is all fairly simplified and if you actually had an in depth discussion on footballing philosophies with AVB it would be very interesting.

So, you, as a coach, have to know exactly what kind of players you have and analyse the squad to decide how you want to organise your team offensively. And then, there are maybe some players more important than others.

This struck me as interesting as this is one of the areas that AVB supposedly failed in at Chelsea. There is a lot of talk that AVB didn't change his teams structure enough and tried to directly replicate his Porto side but with a different style of players. I think it is a little unfair and he probably did try and I am sure if he takes over at Spurs it won't be a direct replica of the side he had at Porto even if his philosophy remains the same. I think he'll have noted some of the intricacies of English football that might not have been so obvious to him when he started at Chelsea, for example:

Top teams nowadays don’t look to vertical penetration from their midfielders because the coach prefers them to stand in position (horizontally) and then use the movement of the wingers as the main source to create chances.

I think that in particular is something that will be different between football on the continent and in England. Whilst we will likely take on his philosophy of 'circulation' I think in English football it is likely that their will be more vertical penetration from a defensive midfielder bursting through the midfield and I think he will encourage that to make sure their is always a direct dynamism from the side as a contrast to the circulation. A moment of explosion if you like from someone like Sandro who could provide vertical penetration from deep before playing in a wide attacking player.

Me, I’m a 4-3-3 fan, not 4-4-2. I don’t see how a classic 4-4-2 could work in the Spanish league, where every team plays 4-3-3 and the superiority of the midfield has become crucial.
What Mourinho did with Chelsea with his 4-3-3 was something never seen before: a dynamic structure, aggressive, with aggressive transitions...and then there is Barca’s 4-3-3, which wouldn’t work in England, because of the higher risk of losing the ball.

This would suggest we would likely see a switch to 4-3-3 which we are all expecting anyway, I am sure with our squad it will definitely lean on the dynamic structure with aggressive transitions. Regardless of who is playing where that should see our off ball movement significantly improved. The dynamic structure leads to players getting between the lines of defence and the aggressive transitions sees that explosion from midfield to eliminate opposition players with vertical penetration.

DS: How do you attack a team that plays with an ultra-low block?

AVB: You have to provoke them with the ball, which is something most teams can’t do. I cannot understand it. It’s an essential factor in the game.
At this time of ultra-low defensive block teams, you will have to learn how to provoke them with the ball. It’s the ball they want, so you have to defy them using the ball as a carrot.
Louis Van Gaal’s idea is one of continuous circulation, one side to the other, until the moment that, when you change direction, an space opens up inside and you go through it.
So, he provokes the opponent with horizontal circulation of the ball, until the moment that the opponent will start to pressure out of despair. What I believe in is to challenge the rival by driving the ball into him.

He might as well have been talking about us with the first line. It is something we have struggled to do for some time and we have definite issues with teams that sit back. I think the idea of provoking the opposition and manipulating them is something we really haven't done, usually we just attack them throwing the kitchen sink at it over and over again and fail to break them down. Manipulation with the ball is one thing and I think that has been very successful on the continent, I think over here he might have to adapt it a little and use also a lot of off the ball movement to try and move the opposition players around a lot more but I think he'd be able to adapt his system to include the physical qualities that players like Bale provide as well as using the intelligence of someone like VDV who can move into gaps to receive the ball (rather than running with it) which can draw a defender out to meet him and then create a space in behind.

It all sounds pretty good to me and I am interested to see how he might adapt his philosophy to English football given a real chance with players he can really work with. Certainly if he can get the quality of players we have doing those things that we did not so well last year then we could become quite a force even without the addition of too many new players.

 

[SpurSince57]

So, we 'provoke' the opponent with 'horizontal circulation of the ball'? That sounds very like passing the ball forever sideways until the opposition gets bored. Maybe there's still a place for Jenas…

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

So, we 'provoke' the opponent with 'horizontal circulation of the ball'? That sounds very like passing the ball forever sideways until the opposition gets bored. Maybe there's still a place for Jenas…

That is what Van Gaal favours, AVB said that he prefers to go directly at the opposition with the ball, effectively engaging that player to come out of position and then moving the ball on to try to create a gap. What we normally do is not try to 'create' a gap but tend to pile forward give it to Bale or VDV and hope they can work some magic with 6 or 7 players between them and the goal.

 

[SpurSince57]

Yes, just re-read it. Phew. No Jenas, then.

 

[brasil_spur]

Getting slightly ahead of ourselves, aren't we?

Who has more time on their hands: those who make threads that are very hypothetical OR those that make pointless posts in them?

 

[brasil_spur]

Remember reading this before he joined Chelsea and being really impressed by him and this style / brand of football would suit our players a lot better than it ever suited Chelsea.

A little long but def worth a read - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ndre-Villas-Boass-footballing-philosophy.html

Definitely worth a read, not least because it shows you that we have been missing out massively without this level of tactical awareness.

Also goes to show why AVB didn't do well at Chelsea - you have to have the right players in the right positions who are on board with what you are asking of them - Chelsea offered none of that to AVB.

 

[brasil_spur]

For it to work, the players will have to 'Paradym Shift'.

Hence the failure at Chelsea, as many of them have the intellectual capacity of a lettuce.

If Levy's serious about this, they will have to assess who will be on board and who will not. The negative ones may have to go.

Agree, i can't see many of our players having a problem with this, apart from possibly VdV.