Greg Dyke and the future of the England team

[talkshowhost86]

So Greg Dyke, chairman of the FA and well known for his knowledge of...ummmm...television is about to make a speech about his 'vision' for the future of the England team.

Now I suspect it will be a big load of balls with no real significant insights, but what really is the future of the England team and what can actually be done to improve the standard of English players?

Currently we are producing very few genuinely talented players, and seem to be falling well down the world pecking order. Even at Spurs it appears that the 'weak links' are generally the English players, so what can be done?

I've got no massive grand plan, but it would seem to me quite easy to look at what they do in Spain and Germany and try and follow those examples. Focussing on 5/7 a side football on smaller pitches seems an obvious example of how to improve the technical ability of our players, and a winter break would seem like a good idea to at least put us on a level playing field with other European countries.

So whaddaya reckon? How do we fix England?

 

[Syn_13]

It all comes down to grass roots level and the mentality you instill in your kids.

Stop kids from being obsessed about scoring goals and playing as individuals. When I was young and I went over to Sicily to see the family I'd play with my cousins and friends over there, amazed at how much more technically advanced they were. I felt like a bull in a china shop. We were playing without goals, only scoring points if you can pass and move the ball onto a cone. Played with a small ball as well, harder to control. It was two touch and everyone had to have a touch before you can make an attempt at "scoring". It was just a little game really but at the time I was amazed at how kids 3 or 4 years younger than me had a much greater knowledge of teamwork and their technique and awareness was lightyears ahead of mine.

 

[tototoner]

Bottom Line for me : Premier League doesn't give a shit about the national team

It's a shame as it wouldn't happen in any other major footballing country in Europe or South America

Not sure how to resolve it bar forcing clubs to play a certain amount of English players

 

[tototoner]

It all comes down to grass roots level and the mentality you instill in your kids.

Stop kids from being obsessed about scoring goals and playing as individuals. When I was young and I went over to Sicily to see the family I'd play with my cousins and friends over there, amazed at how much more technically advanced they were. I felt like a bull in a china shop. We were playing without goals, only scoring points if you can pass and move the ball onto a cone. Played with a small ball as well, harder to control. It was two touch and everyone had to have a touch before you can make an attempt at "scoring". It was just a little game really but at the time I was amazed at how kids 3 or 4 years younger than me had a much greater knowledge of teamwork and their technique and awareness was lightyears ahead of mine.

Yet in UK 11 year olds still play on full sized pitches, with full sized goals and full sized balls, no wonder skillful slight players don't succeed

 

[dagraham]

I know its a cliche but the amount of foreign players definately has had an effect over the years.

If you look at the Italian team for example. During the nineties Serie A was the place to be, they had all the money and more foreign talent was playing there. What followed was a downturn in the qulity of the Italian national team. I know there's more to it but its not a coincidence to me.

The more money comes in to the PL, the more foreign players come in and the less the PL give a shit about England the worse we'll get.

Another thing is obviuosly coaching at grass roots level. I don't know what goes on a grass roots boys football in England but its a diffreent football culture, where a crunching tackle is probably rewarded over techincal skill. We are still miles behind the rest of Europe when it comes to being comfortable receivng and holding on to the football.

 

[Shanks]

My little man has just signed up with a local club, and all training is based on ball work and control, with short areas on scoring.

All dribbling with little balls, passing, space awareness - actually quite impressed with the training to be honest.

His first league game on Saturday - he's excited, but the grass roots is really being looked at these days.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Bottom Line for me : Premier League doesn't give a shit about the national team

It's a shame as it wouldn't happen in any other major footballing country in Europe or South America

Not sure how to resolve it bar forcing clubs to play a certain amount of English players

What do the leagues in Spain/Germany etc do that shows any more care for the national team?

Genuine question, as I'm not quite sure what the Premier League are supposed to do to help the national team.

 

[Blackcanary]

Bottom Line for me : Premier League doesn't give a shit about the national team

It's a shame as it wouldn't happen in any other major footballing country in Europe or South America

Not sure how to resolve it bar forcing clubs to play a certain amount of English players

But how many English players are there who a top-of-the-table team would want to buy? There's simply not enough talent.

To be honest, I don't think I give a shit about the national team, so I can't expect the league to. Why should people be expected to feel love and loyalty for a country who has let players like Terry wear its shirt?

 

[talkshowhost86]

My little man has just signed up with a local club, and all training is based on ball work and control, with short areas on scoring.

All dribbling with little balls, passing, space awareness - actually quite impressed with the training to be honest.

His first league game on Saturday - he's excited, but the grass roots is really being looked at these days.

Are they still playing 11 a side?

 

[talkshowhost86]

I know its a cliche but the amount of foreign players definately has had an effect over the years.

If you look at the Italian team for example. During the nineties Serie A was the place to be, they had all the money and more foreign talent was playing there. What followed was a downturn in the qulity of the Italian national team. I know there's more to it but its not a coincidence to me.

The more money comes in to the PL, the more foreign players come in and the less the PL give a shit about England the worse we'll get.

Another thing is obviuosly coaching at grass roots level. I don't know what goes on a grass roots boys football in England but its a diffreent football culture, where a crunching tackle is probably rewarded over techincal skill. We are still miles behind the rest of Europe when it comes to being comfortable receivng and holding on to the football.

I think the foreign players angle is a red-herring though.

The reason clubs are buying foreign players is because they are better than English players. If English players were actually any good then people wouldn't be spending that money abroad.

It's very easy to blame foreign players, but were England much better in the 90s when there were fewer foreign players in the league?

 

[Shanks]

Are they still playing 11 a side?

No, 6/7 a side games tops.

mind you he is 8.

But even up to 10/11/12's they play smaller games also - few in the club have been signed up by professional clubs, all the training is geared up around controlling and manipulating the ball, understanding space.

Simply really. Team game and tactics come in later, but strength, speed come just behind ball control these days - I've been asked to do the coaching for the young teams, I'm considering doing the FA coaching badges at the moment, but not sure if I can commit!

 

[absolute bobbins]

I'm such a child, I can't even see his name without thinking of a beastly looking lesbian

 

[tototoner]

But how many English players are there who a top-of-the-table team would want to buy? There's simply not enough talent.

To be honest, I don't think I give a shit about the national team, so I can't expect the league to. Why should people be expected to feel love and loyalty for a country who has let players like Terry wear its shirt?

which is one of the major obstacles the FA has to remedy, your view I would say is in the vast majority

 

[tototoner]

What do the leagues in Spain/Germany etc do that shows any more care for the national team?

Genuine question, as I'm not quite sure what the Premier League are supposed to do to help the national team.

promoting youth, read somewhere that every summer Bayern promote 2 German players from their youth setup to the senior squad, and a lot of German sides rely heavily on young German players , same as Spain - even Barca and Madrid try to bring through local talent.

In England its easier to just buy cheap foreign imports and teams that used to have a fantastic youth program like Man City and Southampton don't use it anymore.

I think you either have a top quality diverse league with internationals from all over the world or a competitive national team, you cannot have both - most people seem to be happy having a mediocre national team, that's fine but then don't complain next summer when watching a world cup in Brazil with no England in it.

People will say that La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga have a lot of foreigners - they do but nowhere near as much as in the Premier League

 

[chrissivad]

invest in better pitches, equipment and coaches for the youngsters

have smaller pitches and goals where movement and passing is needed
Have a pitch where you can play the ball around and not have to lump it up over the marsh in the middle of the pitch.
Having someone who knows what they are doing coaching the players, not your mates dad.

Dont pick Pearce or Southgate as your U21 coaches... (bit harsh on Southgate as i havent seen what he can do, but i havent seen why he should be there!)

Doesnt Hoddle keep going on about we need a school of excellence (or something along those lines?) for the top players to get the extra work/training?

I think the loan system needs to be looked at as well.

 

[Blackcanary]

promoting youth, read somewhere that every summer Bayern promote 2 German players from their youth setup to the senior squad, and a lot of German sides rely heavily on young German players , same as Spain - even Barca and Madrid try to bring through local talent.

In England its easier to just buy cheap foreign imports and teams that used to have a fantastic youth program like Man City and Southampton don't use it anymore.

I think you either have a top quality diverse league with internationals from all over the world or a competitive national team, you cannot have both - most people seem to be happy having a mediocre national team, that's fine but then don't complain next summer when watching a world cup in Brazil with no England in it.

People will say that La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga have a lot of foreigners - they do but nowhere near as much as in the Premier League

I think there's an awkward catch-22 situation where the big clubs attract the brightest youngsters to their academies, but have the least need to use them to bring them through (or simply are under too much pressure for immediate success to have time to bed youngsters into the first team). I mean, by all all accounts, Chelsea have a decent academy...are we EVER likely to see a player from it? So perhaps our brightest youngsters hit a brick wall at that stage and never get the opportunity for a top club.

 

[talkshowhost86]

No, 6/7 a side games tops.

mind you he is 8.

But even up to 10/11/12's they play smaller games also - few in the club have been signed up by professional clubs, all the training is geared up around controlling and manipulating the ball, understanding space.

Simply really. Team game and tactics come in later, but strength, speed come just behind ball control these days - I've been asked to do the coaching for the young teams, I'm considering doing the FA coaching badges at the moment, but not sure if I can commit!

That sounds like exactly what we should be doing, and I hope it's being used across the country.

 

[talkshowhost86]

promoting youth, read somewhere that every summer Bayern promote 2 German players from their youth setup to the senior squad, and a lot of German sides rely heavily on young German players , same as Spain - even Barca and Madrid try to bring through local talent.

In England its easier to just buy cheap foreign imports and teams that used to have a fantastic youth program like Man City and Southampton don't use it anymore.

I think you either have a top quality diverse league with internationals from all over the world or a competitive national team, you cannot have both - most people seem to be happy having a mediocre national team, that's fine but then don't complain next summer when watching a world cup in Brazil with no England in it.

People will say that La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga have a lot of foreigners - they do but nowhere near as much as in the Premier League

But isn't that because they weren't getting the quality of player that they needed through these youth systems? I agree that it is currently easier to buy foreign imports, but that's largely because they are actually better players. If the English players were actually any good, they'd be getting interest from abroad but that simply isn't the case.

I think the number of foreign players is a symptom of the poor quality of English players, not a cause.

 

[dagraham]

I think the foreign players angle is a red-herring though.

The reason clubs are buying foreign players is because they are better than English players. If English players were actually any good then people wouldn't be spending that money abroad.

It's very easy to blame foreign players, but were England much better in the 90s when there were fewer foreign players in the league?

I agree with the first part and as I said we are techincally miles behind but I do think its a bit of a vicous circle as the less English players are playing reguarly, the less they can improve.

As for the 90's, I think the talent available was far superior than it is now. I think the curreent crop of English players are the worst I can remember. I remember the England team under Hoddle in 98 and I think that the best we have been since the 1990 World Cup. Its a shame Hoddle had such man management problems and made those stupid remarks as I thought we were building an excellent team which could start to at least compete against the best.

I don't like England under Hodgson as they bore me but I feel sorry for him as I don't think any manager in the world could get England to a World Cup final these days, let alone win it.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think there's an awkward catch-22 situation where the big clubs attract the brightest youngsters to their academies, but have the least need to use them to bring them through (or simply are under too much pressure for immediate success to have time to bed youngsters into the first team). I mean, by all all accounts, Chelsea have a decent academy...are we EVER likely to see a player from it? So perhaps our brightest youngsters hit a brick wall at that stage and never get the opportunity for a top club.

I think if the players were any good, and the Chelsea academy was good, then the players would get their chance at Chelsea.

And if they weren't able to break into Chelsea's team (because Chelsea just buy players) then shouldn't they be able to get a shop abroad? The reason they don't is, for me, because they aren't good enough which suggests the problem is a bit further down the food-chain.